well, Ladies ,gentle ladies (and everyone in between)

http://imgur.com/a/OE2FI

I hope this one is clear XD

@Nora, I think I've missed reading your comments, so could you tell me why Seju wanted to break the circle?

I will .. gimme a moment.

yoonie0104

hold up.. I will get back to you after my last exam on the freaking 18th of August

That's a very beautiful day to have an exams, Norah XDDDDDDDD. Next chap is very very crucial xDDDDDDDDDDD

I edited..

yoonie0104

hold up.. I will get back to you after my last exam on the freaking 18th of August.

or whatever, I wanna do this instead XDD..

yoonie, I will tell you the same thing I told Enk, you make decisions based on the information you currently have, you can't control the other person's actions or decisions in a dynamic environment.. but you adjust to it. ( I may make a wite-out return and show you how decision tree works)

I never said that the whole story is Seju's plan, I am saying that she choses her big moves strategically.

---

Now, Sumin's and Seju's issues:

those issues need 1) identification 2) solving
the identification by itself is very crucial.. to prevent further damages.. Sumin and Seju ARE working on them. It can't be only Seju or only Sumin working on them.. but at least now you know a massage or two that both of them got just by living together under one roof for 10 days.
ch82, ch88 (trust)
ch87, ch88 (inferiority complex)
slowly but surely.

She didnt even do anything to push Sumin to apologize. She chose to run away. Not helping right?

I keep repeating, sometimes even if you are the most collected person, you lose it.. and Seju losing it on Sumin in ch82 given her PTSD is the most human reaction.

it randomly happened in Sumin's house which cant be predicted so basically Seju didnt do anything.

do you think that Sumin and Seju are the type to sit down and talk about the world ? or they just say what needs to be said given the moment.
once more, look at ch88
Sumin: and here I was suspicious of Sungji for..
Seju: it happens when you can't see things yourself.

ch87
Seju: just make sure you won't make any mistake
Sumin: I won't
Seju: you don't know, that's why its called a mistake.

a change doesn't need to be dramatic.. sometimes reactions and a simple word to draw reflection to a past experience is more than enough.

Seju is like an outsider who doesnt actively do a single thing, according to the "plan" she has

i am in the circle again.. which chapter are you talking about.. look at the break down I made.. and then we could know what stage she is in. IT IS NOT A RIGID PLAN.

What kind of a person who keeps changing her plan like this? Like she doesnt even know what she wants, what she needs. She doesnt even control the situation, like everything is impulsive and just on the spot. This is not even a plan, this is like you drive me this way then I changed to go this way to suit the trend #___________#.

yes, a plan changes.. she is not God, how would she know that things would turn this way?
you save every penny to buy a house, then someone is sick so you save to cure them.. does that mean you are impulsive or that shit happens and you try to limit the losses ?? or you are bad planner ?

All those chaps from 54 to 64:
Sumin's mind: Its too late for us, for Seju and Sumin, I'm now in love with another person, Seju is one step too late. She should've said something when she still needs it. Now she doesnt need it anymore since she also lost Sungji.

no, this is not what Sumin is about. That night Sungji broke up with her.. Sumin already knew if she was to jump back to Seju then there is no breaking of the habit.. and she knows that both: their pride and cowardness to face issues would sabotage anything Seju is thinking about.

The important part, at that time, Sumin also lost Sungji, she lost sth she is considering important, hence " you should have said that you loved me and fought for me when I wanted someone to held on to me".

this is not the time frame Sumin was talking about.. she meant much much earlier. 10 years ago. she needed someone to hold into her.. even if she would push them away at first. somewhat she blames Seju for giving up on her. BTW, even if you think that Sumin is talking about the present time, then ch3 is consistent with this idea.

Seriously though, Norah -ah. I'm sorry to hurt you but your version of Seju's plan is very very absurd. It's not even far-fetched. It's unreal. It's like another version of wdtfs, really.

my version and yours are not very far, both are the same.. what mine says is: Seju tries to take and do the best giving her circumstances instead of doing things on a whim. That's the only difference, I find motives to her actions rather than taking them as impulses.

the rest of your comment will be answered in a wite-out version XD

last edited at Aug 16, 2017 6:57AM

mpgpeg

was that my evil twin?

you have one ?!! o.O
I couldn't see it XD

I feel bad now... Oh no,

why would you?.. it's up to anyone to use the delete button and discuss whenever they want to XD

mpgpeg

I agree, there is no point so I'll stop bothering with discussing the manwha.

I apologize if I made it sound like I was just talking about you. I was not, it's just a trend I've seen over the years, not just with this manhwa. Politics is a good example right now.

I am witnessing posts removal.. but it's okay, the discussion is public.. it may be relevant to a lurker or two XD .. no regrets.

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 4:39PM

btw, Enk.. are you familiar with Game Theory.. if yes then imagine a multiple stages 2 players game, extensive form (tree form).. imagine a backward induction solution method.

if not, then try thinking of a decision tree. Any logical, intelligent business person think in those sequences. Gyeomji is a finance graduate, Business school.. so this is somewhat relevant.

The problem here is you're trying to convince me of some other point, I never even once misunderstood what Seju's position was. I merely stated that unless no one in the company can hire anyone but Seju, then there is a good chance that Sungji would still be hired.

good, but she was the one creating the position in her company in the first place and deciding to meet the person applying there personally. so again you are conforming not defying.
since she made those choices when she didn't have to, then they are not mere impulses or undeliberate.

Enk

Sumin is the leader of the management team and Sungji got hired for a position for the management team so they would have always met at one point in time.

good, and who placed the pieces on the chess table ?

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 4:26PM

Enk

hahahahahha.. you know what Seju's position in Hello Studio is ?
a freaking CEO. Not an HR manager !
why interview a 3rd level employee BY HER SELF.. tour her around the company.. in the very early stages of the Manhwa ch4 she purposely planted the idea in Sumin's head.. then went to the sceptical Sungji (who knows more or less that Seju and Sumin are a little bit more than just friends) to tell her: oh, she needs you.. she is weaker than she appears, take care of her.
Sungji: but Ms. Seong has you.
Seju: I'm rather a very busy person.
and upon Sungji's excitement, Seju had that smirk XD
Tell me again that this is all a series of aimless impulses. XD

read ch9's dinner talk between Sumin and Seju.. and again, if you couldn't see what's going on still.. then nothing will convince you.

we could live in peace with that, no biggies XD

Enk
They may appear random to you.. but not to how the story goes on and on in explaining the background motive.. actions and reactions. At least TG classified the woman as intelligent.

On final note: planing actions given circumstances =/= planing a whole outcome with all associated feedbacks

maybe it was not the legs day.. but the indulgence in chocolate soufflé eating is so much of a sinful pleasure to pass without some future payback. I mean, it is almost like making love to a piece of cake with all that creamy goodness oozing out of it in your longing mouth..
counting 6 days till my next cheat meal XD, yaaay I have a date with a cake next week

Orange

Grim =.= ...it's such an uphill battle to stay competitive physically with the younger generation..(especially those who used to be child athletes - Good lord!)

hahahha.. I suffer in competing with people older than me.. okay! the inclination of my "downhill" seems to have a bit of a degree in it XD

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 5:01PM

Enk

That's how I interpret Seju to be, might just be me but I find that more believable than essentially the whole story being some pre-planned scheme by Seju

hahahha.. no one is saying that the whole story is a master plan by Seju.. we are saying that Seju acts on strategic ways sometimes, and adapts when the situation requires to. The incidents in themselves are not Seju's planning, ONLY her actions are planned and directed into specific objectives.

in a matter of fact, even though Seju planned that Sumin and Sungji would meet and somewhat date.. she had no guarantees or assurances that they will actually fall in love with each other or not.

She throws the dice and plays accordingly.

Enk

but at this point I'm just starting finding your theories to be rather absurd and unbelievable. I can't get behind the idea of Sungji being hired and all the events being a part of Seju's plan rather than Seju just making a lot impulsive and dumb decisions and possibly regretting those decisions.

I edited my above comment to make it a bit clearer.. (I tend to write things assuming that the reader perceive things the way I do, apologies)

anyways, whether you find her every action from the first chapter till now impulsive and dumb doesn't affect the fact that she has reasons to do them. in a matter of fact, TG chose to present her as a very successful and intelligent business woman with a survival mentality from her childhood.. I think that the only thing that Seju regrets was giving up on Sumin one night before Sumin went back to her senses in ch11 (I leave the bartender incident aside deliberately because I have another view about it).. but that's the fact, Seju gave up one night earlier!

Enk

Might just be me but I think this whole "Seju's grand plan" thing is some extreme over-analysis. I personally think Seju's pretty much just a love-stuck idiot acting out of desperation at this point.

I don't know if you still find my comments meaningful, however, what I mean by Seju's plans is: why she acts in a certain way.. what is she trying to achieve and why. Not everything happened was because of her planning, in a matter of fact, she had to make decisions and change those decisions in the middle of their execution because well, she didn't plan it that way XDDD. And she didn't become like this because she wants to, but because most of the time, she had to.
only in ch89 Seju became free from her conservative bully family, and that's the point where she has no reason to be torn between running away or fighting and possibly be harassed and blackmailed (using Sumin)
(notice ch76 what the assassin said, remember what Seju thinks about the scarring of Sumin in ch27)
During the period of ch1-88

a) Sumin doesn't want her, then push her out of the way -> fight the Baeks
b) Sumin loves her, then there is a chance of starting over somewhere else -> run away, get married maybe.

ch89.. those two options are no longer motivated.

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 1:16PM

You said she knows the problems but I see her doing nothing to fix the problems.

subtly, she is trying to fix it here and there.. let's first identify the problems:

1. we have an inferiority complex (Seju understood it in ch56)
2. deep trust issues (Seju knew how bad it was in ch82)

working on #1 is mostly going from Sumin's side.. but even the employment of another TL who kept complaining about the amount of work she had to do while Sumin sees it as nothing but a normal load (would somehow send a message to Sumin and her previous team members about how capable she is AND that she didn't get the job by simply bedding Seju).. REMEMBER: Seju chose the new TL herself.

working on #2: happened subtly.. but it also needed Sumin's effort.. first of all: Sumin apologised for the first time ever to Seju in ch83. Secondly: she became more aware of how her assumptions and actions hurt people around her (ch87).. let alone the lines that Seju dropped here and there about trust and how it is easy to misjudge.

saying that Seju didn't work on the problems is a bit underestimating.. Sumin is working on her problems as well.

So she knows that she can say anything that is unpleasant to Sungji, and she knows that Sungji wouldnt believe her or listen to her. She knows her position. Her words, there is no other meaning than a pleading for Sumin to be back. So what is the plan of "leaving Sumin" when all of her actions said that she wants her back?

yoonie.. again, ch1-54 (letting go) .. ch54-64 (getting Sumin back), ch66-85 (resuming the plan).. ch86-88 (re-evaluation of the plan).. ch89 no longer plans are required.

the pleading part happened in ch88. (the reevaluation period)

or let me put it this way:

1. ch1-54 (letting go): she employed Sungji.. pushed Sumin to date her in a very suggestive manner (ch4).. pushed Sungji to date Sumin (ch14).. ch27: "I saw a lot of girls like you around Sumin.. hey, we have sex whenever we are bored, and you better not go all in emotionally because it will hurt eventually)
2. ch54-64 (getting Sumin back): oh, Sumin loved me all those years.. this time she won't be coming back even when I am done with what I have now.. (BUT there is still something between us to fight for).. but then ch64 (Seju knew about her father's plan.. Sumin: let's start over and get the fuck out of here together like we already wanted 10 years ago.. Sumin said NOPE.) .. (at the sametime Sumin was basically saying: you should have said that you loved me and fought for me when I wanted someone to held on to me.. but even then,10 years ago, Sumin was pushing her away.. see how Sumin's mind works ?)
3. ch66-85 (resuming the plan): since Sumin is not into the whole running away thing.. we return to the plan once again.. ironically, the assassin followed her that day.. so! her guts feeling was right about something wrong going to happen.
4. ch86-88 (re-evaluation of the plan): does it worth it ? the whole thing.. they both need each other.. and they both know it.. should she really let go or fight for Sumin.

Now, no family pressure on them, no longer inferiority complex pressure on Sumin.. no need for plans anymore.. whatever happens then it would be only them from themselves.

Like I said for someone who has a plan, Seju's actions are too inconsistent to be considered a plan.

that's because it's not a single rigid plan from ch1 up till now. The plan got changed, paused, resumed and many other things happened in between.

and about Sungji, is it too hard to know if a person is idealistic, protective and stubborn in nature ? (I don't think so)

wouldn't Sumin actually find herself a "relationship that has no future" as Seju perfectly knows ? why would Seju involve in Sumin's hobby if it wasn't to break the habit!

---

I forgot to add this.. everything happened from ch44 to now ch89 took place in a single MONTH. from min- October to mid-November

so, the part regarding fixing issues.. it's happening. and to be fair, it is quicker than that of a real life.

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 12:47PM

For someone who is supposed to realize the root of their problem, Seju is really bad at fixing it. Running away from home after being accused of a thief? How is that helping her situation with Sumin? Begging Sungji to not forgive Sumin? how is that helping her?

yoonie, please look at the whole picture instead of a situation by a situation:
- why she ran away that day is really related to PTSD symptoms.. her being sensitive at that point is not very surprising (ch82-ch83) dealt with symptoms other than sleeping and eating problems.
- the plea in itself came after ch87 and her bed talk with Sumin.. (she genuinely said that she is capable of saying whatever she wants and Sungji better not hear it, Sungji insisted.. so Seju said what she wanted. (whether we agree or not on the rest of the panels translation) but at least you know that Sungji insisted on hearing what Seju wanted to say.. and Seju said while telling Sungji that it's better for her not to know, hear or listen to it.

I dont say that Sumin didnt feel possessive over Seju in the past but she has stopped now. Lets face this, she might still have feelings for Seju, no doubts, but she IS ready to leave her, she wants to. Whether she could do it or not, we need to see, but this is sth I can not lie to myself. Sumin wanted to move on, she felt guilty for leaving Seju like this for all the things she has done but she need to move on, for her sake and for Sungji's sake, Sumin has to do it.

I guess we all had this situation at least once in our lives, wanting to move on, but not really.. because we do actions that somewhat keeps a door open for another chance. This is what Sumin was doing with her insistence on buying the house. As you said, we will need to see.

Yes, I've it a few times and I believe Sumin's choice has been made long ago. She will leave, she needs to leave.

she does need to leave.. readjust and reevaluate everything.. her life, her relationships and her feelings.

She is already ready for it since the date he got submitted to the hospital. She already decided to not take anything long ago. To her brothers, there is a battle, to her, there is none, so why should she think about going head to head with her brothers to protect Sumin when she already knows her way out?

because until her brothers realise that there is no battle, her life and Sumin's will always be in danger. Thus, ch76 attack.. even though it was clear that she told them in ch71 that she doesn't need any inheritance.. did they believe her or instead thought that she knew about the will !??
no matter what she did or said, they would have harmed her and blackmailed her with Sumin.

Her brother wouldnt do anything unless she harms them, so no worries for something happens to Sumin. The assassin, she brought it upon to herself. If she didnt threadten them, she should be fine

they sent her an assassin to follow her before she even talked to them in ch71 ! and they still harmed her even though she told them about not wanting to inherit anything. the Timeline is important.

Maybe, but how did Sungji know about her plan to have two meanings for that, btw?

flashback ch27/55 and what Sungji saw in ch55 itself. (I also wonder if Team Gaji said the final line as a narrative line or an actual dialogue from Sungji's side.. it works both ways anyway)

Didnt you say that she has continued her plan after chap 66. So what's with the beg to Sungji? The desparate talk to Sumin in bed?

yes.. because at that moment, 64 bed talk, she knew it would take time to ever fix it now with all the things going on around her.. she even knew about her father's plan and transfer of a fortune in her name. time element plays a role in here. (if Sumin was to start over, she would just leave the hell out with her.. if Sumin insisted on staying then the plan must resume)

Yeah, one and only word, dont forgive her cause she is so desparate to have Sumin back, there is no plan of "leaving Sumin"

Yoonie, I am running in circles.. There was a plan up to ch54, then off then ch66 resumed.. then ch86 (reevaluation of the plan and why the relationship went to that in the first place) then ch89: plan ends.

You have to be a philosopher to be able to catch on a person's personality that fast and that's a big risk to take on to reveal Sumin's dark past to Sungji that early without chasing Sungji away.

well, she knew what Sumin likes the most.. she made an excellent set up to ensure that they both meet and interact.. she even knew immediately that "Sungji is nicer than she looks" ch4.. notice that Seju is more perceptive than Nammi.. you know what Nammi knew in ch19?? That Sungji is a virgin !!! even before Sumin knew it. Nammi is this sharp, can you get how sharp Seju is ?

She do have plan for Sungj but not to leave Sumin but for Sumin to like her and date her for a few months then back to her. That's why she chose Sungji personally, she knew Sumin will like Sungji

for what.. to keep the endless circle ?.. the circle was on automatic mode .. why would she take the hassle ?.. she wanted to break the circle not maintain it.

And for a warning or a words with good intention, that's too early and very very not in a nice way. The way she talk, she wanted to intimidate Sungji, and honestly, no matter how many times I read it, it contains bad intentions from Seju, not an advice, not a warning, just make some ideas into Sungji's head for her own gain

well, it worked! Sungji changed from a person who would fuss at Sumin's touch in ch25, to a person who is so eager to have sex in ch29.. she sped up her pace a bit to catch up with Sumin's needs. Did Seju's talk has truth in it? YES, up to the last word.. call it warning or provocation.. what mattered is: Sungji worked harder to keep Sumin.

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 9:14AM

and yoonie would be that last to know XDDD

I was the last one to know? @______________@

till someone else claims to know after you did, you are pretty much the last XDDD

momonosuke

Really? I am super predictable you know. My decision making process is extremely primitive. Lol.

maybe that's exactly why you could be unpredictable.. XDD specially for those who are inclined to over think.

Good thing I can substitute it with certain organic herb in California XD

hahahah.. 3 months ago, there was a demonstration in the city I am living in to legalise it.. but the state only agreed on making health insurance pay for the medical prescription of it. I should've lived in the Netherlands instead XD

I was doing that for a while, and it was the healthiest time of my life... And then winter came.

awwww.. well, this time more than ever, working out had a positive effect on me mind and body.. hahahha.. I used to forget meals, sleep or even getting out of the house.. now, I am getting to see some muscles that I've not seen in a very long time XDDD..

about winter, I've never worked out the way I did in the freezing Finland 2 years ago.. only by living there my life became automatically healthier.. wild salmon and salads are served everywhere.. protein shakes and all healthy bars are sold in any grocery shop.. healthy snacking was easy too.
Fin-sick T~T

Orange

Nora but you are half a decade younger...how would you know T-T (whines)

how does it look like from the future? XD

Hahahaha! It can be toned down even further...in fact it can be not mentioned at all XDDDDD I've heard enough to last me a lifetime XDDDDDD

NO, you have to keep having a daily dosage of it so your body won't get shocked much next time I drop a bombshell XD

Orange

For the evil twin, jpeg is going to create a new account and call herself something different and then we will never see jpeg again lol...until Nora out her..

and yoonie would be that last to know XDDD

mpgpeg

You guys are funny. XD
jpeg might as well be my account name anyways.

hahahah.. as long as you would put some badass avatar XD.. you could name it evil-suke.. OR: Suka-sista XD

(not very creative, huh?..XD)

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 6:50AM

hahahah.. I just saw the episode..
Tormund: “You need to convince the one with the dragons or the one who fucks her brother?”

hahahahahha XDDDD

mpgpeg

I have not... but that's not much of a difference in age. XD I don't have much muscle, so I think I would struggle too.

hahahaha.. well, try it and tell me. or, even better, we can whine together XD

mpgpeg
hahahaha.. you are being so nice :*
Thank you.

Enk and mpgpeg
I honestly meant about that specific panel: NO ONE would read it in a wrong way. aka: readers who can't read.

this sentence in particular:

Most readers thought Sumin was talking to Sungji when the other line said, "Do you remember?"

you mean this: http://imgur.com/a/xA5GQ hahah.. most readers who would get this idea are those who can't read XD

Sungji was the one talking to Sumin.. and the one who said the line.

last edited at Aug 14, 2017 6:16PM

Interesting... That's cool to be unpredictable, but I think that applies to momonosuke more and her evil twin. XD

hahahaha.. yeah, I never could guess her reactions XD .. but her sense of humor is golden.

I feel like you are exaggerating like with your age. XD I thought you were in your 30s or older based on what you post here about it.

argggh.. I've been out of the gym for 2 years.. and now this is my second week.. I just want everything to start from where I left off.

have you tried weighted calves rises before squatting your future out of your butt XD? that pretty much enough to make you feel wobbly for a day or two. But you are half a decade younger.. how would you know T~T .. (jealous sob)