Each day I feel like Japan understands less and less what a cold actually is.

Colds are that thing you get when a drop of water hits you that almost kills you right?

Kanoko wasn't mad at Mitsuki because Hime was unable to return Mitsuki's feelings, but because Hime wasn't able to reset like she usually does when someone confesses to her. Kanoko was mad because Hime had to take her seriously, unlike most people who confess to Hime. She sees Yano as a threat.

I agree with you on almost everything you wrote, but I'm a bit conflicted by this last part. Why did Kanoko try to convince Hime to go back to Liebe then? As I see it, either she doesn't consider Yano to be a real threat (just to clarify, by this I mean "someone Hime could fall in love with") or she does care about Hime's own happiness.

My best guess would be because she underestimated Hime's feelings for Yano. She thought if Hime could just reject Yano, then they could move on and things would go back to normal. If you go back, at first she thinks it's good Hime quit Liebe, but since her personality was affected by it, Kanoko wanted to her to go back. I mean, when she finds out Yano has the anklet that matches their accessories, she slaps Yano. She both sees her as a threat, accurately, but also thinks it's inevitable that she'll be rejected, also accurately. As far as why she wants her back at Liebe, chapter 12 answers that doesn't it? She gets more Hime time she would never get otherwise.

You raise some fair points. That being said, the narrative doesn't treat her actions as justified. Sumika refuses Kanoko's request to abolish the schwester system in no uncertain terms and was planning to do the opposite by making schwesterships permanent. In fact, both Sumika and Hime want Kanoko to make an effort to get along better with Mitsuki(who, despite her jealousy, tries to keep things civil between them).

I'm not so sure that Kanoko doesn't even care about Hime. Her anger toward Mitsuki isn't solely based in jealousy, but because Mitsuki's love confession caused Hime anguish due to her being unable to return Mitsuki's feelings, which is probably part of the reason why Kanoko hasn't confessed. She even tries to convince Hime to stay at the salon, whereas it would probably have been easier to let her go; Kanoko could still see her at school, whereas Mitsuki, who goes to a different school, would probably never see Hime again.

Considering the warnings Kanoko received about the consequences her jealousy might have, I personally think that Kanoko's going to eventually face some backlash as a result of her feelings for Hime and her jealousy of Mitsuki coming to light, since Hime only has an inkling of the latter and no idea of the former, and the fallout will probably make the drama between Hime and Mitsuki in Volume 7 seem tame. This will probably lead to her relationships with Hime, Sumika and Mitsuki changing, although it's too soon to say how.

In short, I'm not denying her flaws, but I still believe she can change for the better.

Kanoko wasn't mad at Mitsuki because Hime was unable to return Mitsuki's feelings, but because Hime wasn't able to reset like she usually does when someone confesses to her. Kanoko was mad because Hime had to take her seriously, unlike most people who confess to Hime. She sees Yano as a threat.

Look, I fully expect Kanoko to have a redemption arc of some kind down the line, but I think from everything we've had from her perspective she's never once taken the time to think about how anyone else feels. Even in the latest chapters she keeps thinking that Hime and Sumika are acting strange, and she means not how she wants them to act like. She is sorely lacking in empathy.

It's not about flaws. Like I said last time, it's not the jealousy that's the problem, it's the lack of self-reflection. That goes beyond a flaw to a personality defect.

It weirds me out that the fitness instructor smokes. I know, I know--even where I live that wasn't unusual a few decades ago. Not a criticism. Just weirds me out.

Yeah, I totally get what you mean. I couldn't stop thinking about it during the whole scene.

It was the cut away shots that did it, like when they showed both their feet and then the older one was on her tiptoes for a bit. Playing with all kinds of expectations here.

I wonder if I'm the only one on this forum who doesn't hate Kanoko. She's definitely flawed, but when you consider that all her other classmates pushed her around and Hime not only was nice to her but confided her secret in her, you can understand why she values her status as Hime's only "special" person. She needs to learn to be more tolerant than Mitsuki(who's a bit better at managing her own jealousy of Kanoko), but it's not surprising that she'd envy a person who's known Hime for longer.

In fact, one could argue that since Hime told Kanoko about how Mitsuki betrayed Hime, Kanoko's worried that Mitsuki will do so again. Keep in mind that she heard about how Sumika chose to step aside and let Nene break off her schwestership with Sumika so she could get together with Youko, only for Youko to manipulate and dump her, so she realizes that the "I Want My Beloved To Be Happy" approach doesn't always work out for the beloved.

In short, Kanoko's hardly a saint and her fixation on Hime is unhealthy, but most of the others are flawed in their own ways, so I'm hoping Kanoko is able to develop a healthier bond with Sumika.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't think Kanoko's flaws are as excusable as the others.

Hime's lies aren't actively harmful to other people. Yano puts in effort to be better than she is and feels bad about not being good enough. She also knows that she should feel bad about being jealous of Kanoko, even if she won't stop being jealous of Kanoko. Sumika cares about the general atmosphere of the group, even if it comes at the expense of people getting what they personally want.

Kanoko only cares about herself. It's not a problem that she's jealous and only wants Hime for herself, it's that she literally doesn't care about anyone but herself, not even Hime. She's not concerned with whether Hime would be happy in a relationship, or happy with a change, she only wants things to stay the same as they are, and she doesn't care who gets hurt as a result of that. Yano has desires, but no expectations, while Kanoko isn't happy unless things are exactly the way she wants them to be. "Unhealthy" is an understatement.

The other characters have normal problems that teenagers or even adults might face. Kanoko needs to see a therapist.

Once the misunderstanding is resolved, they'll become great friends.

I've been saying that for a while, but the romance tag isn't warranted (yet).

But I can feel the pressure on twitter by the readers who want them to become a couple. I wonder if Agu will cave in.

Isn't that the case with a lot of romances though? A lot of them start from a place of friendship. This seems like a weird take when it can be applied to a million things that are so obviously romantic.

For the song, we thinking original song or rock cover?

"All Apologies" by Nirvana would be perfect.

I wonder if uncle ever had to do a serenade when he was her age? He seemed like he knew what to do instantly once he started to gather what the actual problem was. Also fantasic coloring as always!!!

Don’t think he knows whats going on tbh. I am pretty sure he is talking about Mitsuki’s relationship with music, not Aya.
So he has no idea what caused Mitsuki to not want to listen to music (which is obviously loosing a friend with whom she could bond over music)

He might not know exactly what's going on, but he probably suspects it's about Aya. It's the biggest change in Mitsuki's life recently, and he can probably guess it has something to do with Mitsuki's mood being down.

Ch. 50
Kanoko is just the worst. I don't mind Youko being potentially the worst since she's not a main cast member, but I don't really see a way to redeem Kanoko. Because we see her perspective so much, we're constantly in her thoughts. And I certainly don't mind jealousy in some characters, Yano is also jealous over people spending time with Hime. But Kanoko's form of jealousy is so ugly, I just can't stand her. She's an awful friend.

I kind of feel like the entire "rapey" scenario can be explained away by the fact that Marika is also literally being paid to do these kinds of things as well, so it's already a (literally) transactional relationship.
Problems aside, still having fun with this.

I really don't think the payment makes it ok or better, not to mention that Aya had said in an earlier chapter that if Marika told her no she would stop.

Look, I've read the LNs, I'll continue reading this manga, and I enjoy their relationship, but it's really weird that some people just want to wave this away.

I sincerely ask this not to be contentious with other people (because I found it pretty uncomfortable too), but to the people that were saying this scene was Rapey, how do you coincide that with her suddenly wanting to pleasure Aya?

My two cents is that regardless of Marika's internally conflicted feelings, she told Aya in absolutely no uncertain terms that she didn't want to, and it's not Aya's position to attempt to read Marika's mind, let alone make the decision about her conflicted feelings for her. It is extremely not okay to initiate sex with someone who firmly, repeatedly says no on the off-chance they might get into it after the fact.

Very much this, but then there's also the fact that we're not sitting on the jury for a rape trial, but reading a story here. So rather than passing judgement on the people, it is more about looking at the story itself and in this context, I think it's especially bad that the story mixed what should have been an important moment (Marika becoming honest enough in her attraction to actively reciprocate sexually) with a beginning to the sex scene that is just by all means rape because until that point Aya has no way of knowing that Marika wants to have sex, quite the opposite with her repeatedly saying no and that she's scared, etc.

So my main problem with this is not even that Aya did a shitty thing (which she did), but that after a revelation that should make her more likeable she does this and thus essentially spoils what could otherwise have been a beautiful moment in this manga. In all honesty, that's just tonal inconsistency and bad writing in what is supposed to be a romance story

It's all straight from the LNs, this is how it plays out. Luckily, there are no other rapey scenes in the 3 volumes I've read, but even one is enough.

The issue here isn't even that Aya did this. It's that there is no commentary from the author. It wouldn't be the first relationship that has had a terrible moment that can be salvaged, but it's treated both in the manga and the LNs as just another event between them. I'm not asking for moralizing from author, but some kind of acknowledgement that that was really fucked up.

"but it's treated both in the manga and the LNs as just another event between them"
So many yuri manga which seem to be trying do a nice normal relationships seem to throw in a random at best sexual harassment and at worst sexual assault scenes in and just never bring it up again. It's just treated as an intimate moment or that the pleasure they feel makes them realize their feelings even though a few pages before they were begging for them to stop.

As you said, some kind of acknowledgement I think would be great. Could build it into the story where the character has to look into themselves realize what they did was wrong and how it has caused a rift between the two have to work through it. A possibility for good conflict but no, I still have yet to find a yuri manga that does this which is just a waste. I find it funny how I just kinda expect it at this point when reading a yuri manga. I don't like it but I am just oh here we go again.

Adachi to Shimamura has a moment pretty early on where Shimamura tells Adachi she can't just grab her hand or touch her whenever she wants, she has to ask. Our Yuri Started with Me Getting Rejected in a Dream also does. So it's not like they don't exist, but they handle it early enough in the relationship that it's not the type of conflict you're describing.

The issue here isn't even that Aya did this. It's that there is no commentary from the author. It wouldn't be the first relationship that has had a terrible moment that can be salvaged, but it's treated both in the manga and the LNs as just another event between them. I'm not asking for moralizing from author, but some kind of acknowledgement that that was really fucked up.

Honestly, I don't believe this is worse than your standard shoujo smut fare.
There is a scene in vol. 4 which I thought was kinda bad though, so be warned

Your average Korean pornhwa is all about the rape and toxic relationships, but that doesn't exactly make it ok. It's just something you know going into the genre. Shoujo smut is the same way. It's regressive.

That Marika is a brat and Aya is a brat tamer. I did this with my ex. The important thing in BDSM is to have a safe word, which they do mention in the light novel.

I wish that the scanlator could educate people like in the translator notes about brats and brat tamers.

Um, you're free to have whatever headcanon you like to justify enjoying noncon if it makes you feel better, but let's not make things up and then tell off the translators for not appending your headcanon to the release. This interpretation is entirely in your head. They never mention anything about safe words or BDSM at any point.

Partial spoiler from the LN:
They actually do go into talking about using a safe word a little later on in the story. It's not a headcannon, Marika is an actual brat and Fuwa is well aware of how far she can push Marika in bed.

They do, but that's after this moment so it doesn't matter. You can't give consent after the fact.

I sincerely ask this not to be contentious with other people (because I found it pretty uncomfortable too), but to the people that were saying this scene was Rapey, how do you coincide that with her suddenly wanting to pleasure Aya?

My two cents is that regardless of Marika's internally conflicted feelings, she told Aya in absolutely no uncertain terms that she didn't want to, and it's not Aya's position to attempt to read Marika's mind, let alone make the decision about her conflicted feelings for her. It is extremely not okay to initiate sex with someone who firmly, repeatedly says no on the off-chance they might get into it after the fact.

Very much this, but then there's also the fact that we're not sitting on the jury for a rape trial, but reading a story here. So rather than passing judgement on the people, it is more about looking at the story itself and in this context, I think it's especially bad that the story mixed what should have been an important moment (Marika becoming honest enough in her attraction to actively reciprocate sexually) with a beginning to the sex scene that is just by all means rape because until that point Aya has no way of knowing that Marika wants to have sex, quite the opposite with her repeatedly saying no and that she's scared, etc.

So my main problem with this is not even that Aya did a shitty thing (which she did), but that after a revelation that should make her more likeable she does this and thus essentially spoils what could otherwise have been a beautiful moment in this manga. In all honesty, that's just tonal inconsistency and bad writing in what is supposed to be a romance story

It's all straight from the LNs, this is how it plays out. Luckily, there are no other rapey scenes in the 3 volumes I've read, but even one is enough.

The issue here isn't even that Aya did this. It's that there is no commentary from the author. It wouldn't be the first relationship that has had a terrible moment that can be salvaged, but it's treated both in the manga and the LNs as just another event between them. I'm not asking for moralizing from author, but some kind of acknowledgement that that was really fucked up.

For the fan scans:
I'm surprised by how often the word lesbian has been thrown around in the last 3 chapters. I've been following the official scans until this point so I don't know if it's a translation issue, or when Nene was around they used to say it way more often. Like, the manga felt more subtle up until this point, and all of a sudden everyone is super gay. I don't have a problem with it, but I'm curious now if the official scans will also be like that.
49
Youko really comes off as a sociopath here. She'd be perfect for Kanoko.

I guess the use of "lesbian" comes up because Sumika identifies as heterosexual, at least before meeting Kanoko, while Nene has only ever had feelings for straight girls, so this is the first time characters' sexuality has become an issue. Compare how Hime doesn't have any apparent interest in romance apart from marrying into wealth(but seems to have feelings for Mitsuki), Mitsuki and Kanoko haven't had feelings for anyone besides Hime, and Mai hasn't expressed romantic feelings for anyone.

If by "perfect" you mean Kanoko would be the perfect victim for Youko, then you're absolutely right. Not only is Kanoko the type who'd fall for anyone who's kind to her, but Kanoko actually thinks that Youko might not be so bad after hearing Sumika's account of Nene and Youko's relationship(keep in mind Sumika's the most biased against Youko).

Well in these flashback chapters Sumika says that she's the only straight one among them, which seems to imply that Mai is also a lesbian. And while I agree that Hime hasn't had any apparent interest in romance, it's very clear that she is female attracted, not just Mitsuki attracted.

Haha my perfect comment was just a joke because I really dislike Kanoko.

In response to Cogito ^^

Great summation! It's been explained before, but people don't read the whole thread. They come in every once in a while, and it's so much harder to correct a misunderstanding once it exists. I doubt it will end until they kiss or something.

I don't think this is a surprise, but it's nice to get confirmation.

I just noticed that Evil Yvonne in the dream has the same eyes as Elsa. I wonder if that's supposed to mean something?

It’s also similar to Dahlia’s demon form. Potentially it could, but it could also just be to differentiate the characters and it could go multiple ways anyway.

Yeah they might be the same. The demon nun's look pink or light red to me, while Elsa and Evil Yvonne look dark red, but I'm not actually 100% on that.

You mighr forget the biggest thing, the eyes trigger only at full moon for the nun whereas it's the natural color of Elsa's eyes. Plus her hair become white, which has never been the case for Elsa.

I'm not really concerned with the nun, I'm concerned with Evil Yvonne having Elsa's eyes.

For the fan scans:
I'm surprised by how often the word lesbian has been thrown around in the last 3 chapters. I've been following the official scans until this point so I don't know if it's a translation issue, or when Nene was around they used to say it way more often. Like, the manga felt more subtle up until this point, and all of a sudden everyone is super gay. I don't have a problem with it, but I'm curious now if the official scans will also be like that.
49
Youko really comes off as a sociopath here. She'd be perfect for Kanoko.

I just noticed that Evil Yvonne in the dream has the same eyes as Elsa. I wonder if that's supposed to mean something?

It’s also similar to Dahlia’s demon form. Potentially it could, but it could also just be to differentiate the characters and it could go multiple ways anyway.

Yeah they might be the same. The demon nun's look pink or light red to me, while Elsa and Evil Yvonne look dark red, but I'm not actually 100% on that.

This is ten times better than the idiotic manhua version.

Why? It's pretty much exactly the same.

I'm thinking it's because there's none of the horribly artificial conflict between mcs—Evie gone hysterical, hurting Elsa, kicking her out, crying, repenting, going after her next day, trying to pretend all's okay... all that bs.

Isn't that just because we haven't gotten there, yet? I went to compare this chapter and the previous with the manhua and it seems note for note the same.

Volume 4 thoughts

Unlike a lot of men in yuri stories, I don't think Wataru is a bad guy. But that's kind of it. That's all I can really say about him. He has nothing going for him. It's obvious the marriage is dead, and no matter what he or his mom want, which I assume is stability for him and not having a bad image for her, they can't revive it. Akari was the trigger, but Ayano is done with Wataru. It sucks that Japanese laws are such that he'll make it difficult for her, but I'm hoping he eventually realizes that there is nothing to save there and makes it easy on her.

As far as Akari and Ayano, it is kind of funny how often Akari emphasizes that she has no idea why she's so into Ayano, but maybe that's kind of the point. It's an attraction, it doesn't have to be rational. And unlike a lot of married women, this one actually wants to divorce her husband for her. That's gotta count for something.

I'm enjoying this story a lot. I didn't particularly like Aoi Hana, so I'm glad I gave this a shot because I like it a lot.

last edited at Sep 5, 2022 12:23AM

I just noticed that Evil Yvonne in the dream has the same eyes as Elsa. I wonder if that's supposed to mean something?

This is ten times better than the idiotic manhua version.

Why? It's pretty much exactly the same.

People who are saying it ending in chapter 20, that's a joke, right? The author hasn't said anything about it ending, right? Please no.