Honami should really work on her ability to say "no" to people. Or "piss off", that works too. Funny how that "teach us how to use a sewing machine" turned into Honami doing all their work for them. Also weird they did not ask Hirose to help them. Also also, I have no idea why some people insist on insinuating this is gay in some way, it is perfectly normal for girls to cry happy tears when other girls call them nice, hell, that is normal even between male friends. Best friends forever. And ever. And ever~

^ She is enjoying it so much that she is crying. Being Nico is suffering~

Bless Kodama! Why so short... ;_; A few chapters, or even just one long-ish one-shot would have worked better with this premise. Give me more of these two, I beg of you...

Delicious~~~

^ Those are the best pairings! YES! ALL THE YES!! Perhaps, with time, Maho will achieve the same status as Darjeeling, and basically be shipped with practically everyone. I mean, not even joking here, if asked whom would I consider the most shippable character after Darjeeling, Maho would be my choice.

This soul eater guy is on a roll. Wonder what the story is with people sometimes.

He uses this Forum solely to mark images he has seen by commenting beneath each one, that is literally his only activity here. He never comments in any other thread, which explains why he never saw any of this. It is possible the temporary ban simply coincided with one of his periods of absence, so he does not even know he was banned. Alternatively, he has some legitimate psychological issues, if he knows he was banned. The utter childishness of his method of marking aside, if someone is banned form a site, the ban is lifted, they return, and their first , second, third, and 33rd impulse is not to try and find out why they were banned in the first place, but they instead go back to doing the one thing they do here as if no problems had arisen, I think it is rather safe to wager we are not dealing with a fully functional individual here.

^ Love is one thing, sexual attraction is another. Why people insist on using the two as synonyms has always been beyond me, to be honest.

Do not forget, Yuzu is bi, at the very beginning of the story she was not even that, she was (or thought herself) straight, did everyone forget how much she anguished over getting into an all-girls school with no potential boyfriends around?

I'm pretty sure she only wanted a boyfriend because she was trying to be the stereotypical gyaru, she thought that having a cute boyfriend was 'cool' and would impress her friends and make them jealous, and it was expected of her to have a boyfriend by her social circle, I mean do you remember how her "friends" reacted when they saw a lesbian couple? And how Yuzu ended up crying because of the way they reacted? The whole "I want a boyfriend" thing was just peer pressure at its finest IMO. And I don't remember Yuzu mentioning that she ever had a boyfriend (well, she did say something about breaking up with her boyfriend at the beginning but right after she says that she was never honest about that, so I guess it was just a lie) or that she was ever romantically attracted to a specific man (but I don't remember every single chapter of Citrus so maybe I'm wrong). She might be bi, but the beginning of the manga isn't really a proof of that... IMO, she thought she was straight 'by default', like many other homosexuals, because she was never really attracted to someone before.

Very first chapter, notice her thoughts.. Not something spoken, not something she forced herself to think, and added to that, it is not even a thought that could lead anywhere in practical terms, since I can not imagine Yuzu actually having an affair with a teacher. She just found him hot.

Edit: Scratch that second-to-last sentence, she actually might have considered making a move on him. In any case, she seems far too enthusiastic to not be attracted to him, at least on a superficial level (his looks). Sure, you could write it off as her "forcing" herself, but that is not even alternate interpretation of evidence, that is just blatantly reading your own ideas into what we are presented with. She did not, at any point, go over this herself, she did not state her sexuality openly, she did not say anything about her previous desire to have a boyfriend, and we are not even given any visual clues that she was forcing herself back then. Therefore, what we are presented with is that she finds both sides attractive. Until I see her saying something on the issue herself, Saburouta making a statement on that, or someone digs up panels which convey visually that her previous ideas were a result of her forcing herself, I will write her down as being bi.

last edited at Jul 21, 2018 7:55PM

@Blastaar: You will hear no arguments from me on that score, I basically agree with everything you have written in your response. One thing all of us can agree on is that the writing has certainly been lacking in some areas, Mei's side of the story being the foremost issue, in my opinion.

last edited at Jul 21, 2018 1:47PM

Mei's motivations not being fleshed out is what keeps readers discussing since it's all so ambiguous, so might be on purpose.

But regardless, I don't think Mei's choices are bad writing as much as just bad choice on the part of Sabu, because she comes off as Bitch-san till the end (as Matsuri would say). Even if Japanese readers are more sympathetic to her situation due to valuing duty more, still the way Mei is shown to handle Yuzu's feelings is bound to burn bridges even with those readers I bet.

It was fine to have her doing all sorts of confusing things during the story, but to have her provoke negative feelings in readers till the very last chapter is a bold move indeed. What are the chances that in ch 41, she will show something about Mei that will cause readers to settle on "she was a lovable person after all"? I can't think of anything. I bet readers will be 50/50 on "I'm so happy they got back together" and "Someone save Yuzu from her".

Thing is, Mei was never portrayed as a classical lovable character. She is an emotionally scarred individual with some serious character flaws as a result of her experiences and upbringing. I find her absolutely adorable, but that is because I am into such characters.

Yuzu has a hero complex a mile wide (which people seem to forget often), and with Mei she is doubly motivated because she is in love with her. Honestly, you could not get a more perfect match than these two, I was always baffled by people going "blah, Yuzu deserves better blabla, Mei is the worst girl for her blabla". Mei is basically tailor-made for her. If Mei was just another lovable character with no major issues (in context of this work, think Harumin), I doubt Yuzu would ever get interested in her romantically. In fact, I am almost certain she would not. Do not forget, Yuzu is bi, at the very beginning of the story she was not even that, she was (or thought herself) straight, did everyone forget how much she anguished over getting into an all-girls school with no potential boyfriends around? That she would fall for a girl for the first time ever, without previously even entertaining the thought, that girl must have appealed to her on some deep level, and Mei hit exactly that sweet spot. Yuzu's overarching urge to help everyone and anyone found a perfect match in a character with so many personal issues, it was practically inevitable she would fall in love.

I think trying to somehow mould Mei into a lovable person (at least in the conventional sense) would not only be contrary to her character, but I also do not think Saburouta even attempted to go for something like that, this is more of an element that part of the audience read into the story of their own accord.

^ As someone who experienced first hand something highly similar to Mei's situation, I disagree. I developed feelings for this girl despite my better judgement and internal resistance (there are loads of people in IRC and Mordor laughing their asses off right about now, yes, I have enough humanity in me to develop feelings for someone, plus, I was young back then, sue me), she got me to open up, then at one point, I had a shocking revelation of just how much I changed my world views, seemingly without my conscious notice. My immediate reaction was to revert back to my previous positions with a vengeance, it was a pure defence mechanism. While my motivations for reverting were markedly different than Mei's, I can absolutely see the reserved-character-is-infatuated ----> goes-through-a-wide-array-of-new-experiences ----> reverts-back-in-defence chain as not only plausible, but even likely and not outside of Mei's personality. Mei has the added motivation of wanting the academy, and I genuinely think her decision is a part of her character growth, just not in the direction most people hoped for.

I do find the writing to be lacking, we just differ on how it is lacking. I think it fails to flesh out Mei's side in sufficient detail, while you think Mei's choices themselves are bad writing. We shall agree to disagree on this.

Edit: I posted before seeing your edit. So we are not that much in disagreement, lol. But yeah, this needed a few more chapters dedicated to Mei's side, that much is painfully obvious.

last edited at Jul 21, 2018 10:47AM

Nope, Mei decided it all herself. She decided to stay with her grandpa over her father. She wasnt abandoned.

Mei had always lived with her father and continued to live in his apartment after he left while her grandfather financially supported her. When her father left, Mei was only ten years old. And at such a young age, she decided to work for her family not because she felt she had a choice in the matter, but because she thought it was the only way to get her dad back. When we do see Mei's father, he openly admits that he left Mei knowing that she needed him, but he left anyway believing Mei, at only 10 years old, was able to take care of herself within a severly strict and demanding family.

Straight up lies being told here. Mei was blatantly given a choice. Either go with her father or stay at home. She chose to stay. It wasnt about getting her father back, she refused to even read the letters he sent her, it was aboit creating a place for him to come back to. And when he did return and made it clear he was never returning to the school she chose to inherit it herself.

You are obviously missing the "ten years old" part there. A ten-year-old was given a life-changing choice, by a parent who up until that point behaved no differently than the universally hated grandfather, and she was given this choice without any preparatory period whatsoever, Shou just sprang it on her. Her father, who was a strict, traditional parent all her life and raised her as such, suddenly comes to her one day and offers to abandon everything with him for reasons that are beyond her grasp, and you think she "decided it all herself". Have you ever seen a ten-year-old??

I would also like to point out, yet again (because it never ceases to amaze me how people gloss over this, or even blatantly try to wrap it in completely disingenuous constructs, such as "choosing a less mainstream way of life" and similar nonsense), that Shou abandoned his daughter at such a young age, even more, as someone here pointed out, he left her in the very same family and atmosphere which caused him to break. He prioritised his own escape over his daughter, because he is a fucking horrible parent. His leaving was what probably made Mei so unbelievably stubborn about the academy, he not only abandoned her, he also mentally scarred her in the process.
And speaking of Shou, horrible parenting, and ten-year-olds, may I also point out that only in the realm of fiction could a ten-year-old be given such a "choice". Beside the option to stay for the sake of his child, Shou also had the option to take her with him, you know, as her parent and legal guardian.

I do agree with the creating a place for him to get back to aspect, though, just as I agree she then chose to inherit the school for herself. To be honest, it is kind of funny seeing so many people invalidating her choice on the grounds of her upbringing. If she chose to run away, everyone and their mother would be celebrating it as a great feat (and you only need to look at how the audience reacts to Shou to know this to be true), but if her choice is to uphold her duty instead, then nope, she has been brainwashed by the grandfather, the poor soul.

The simple fact is, no one makes decisions in a vacuum, we are all products of our respective classes, upbringings, schooling, environment, which influence us to a greater or lesser measure, depending on the individual, but we are all influenced by it one way or another. If Mei's free choice to embrace her duty is considered invalid because of her upbringing, then pray tell, who on earth is even capable of making free choices? You can dismiss literally any choice, made by any person, on those grounds. "Oh, they are opting for that only because of X they were exposed to in their life."

Did the grandfather, Shou before his great "revelation", and her class in general influence Mei's decision? Absolutely. It was still her decision.

Before, you could make an argument about Mei being forced into her role, but not after the letter chapter. It is probably my favourite chapter, because it actually shows Mei has grown as a character, just not in the direction the (western) audience wanted to (I will come back to the remark in the brackets). Her wish to inherit the academy went from something she did more or less on autopilot in her father's stead to being a sincere desire of her own.

Theoretically, that anti-Mei attitude could be a function of cultural differences, and Japanese audiences might have considerably more tolerance and sympathy for Mei’s self-sacrifice and commitment to duty than Western audiences do.

It is not theoretical in the slightest, the letter chapter is the perfect example. The western audience hated it with a passion, while the Japanese audience mostly praised it on social platforms. What made the western fans condemn Mei, caused the Japanese ones to sympathise with her. I do not think it filters to most westerners just how much the Japanese value self-sacrifice, be it for the sake of duty, family, business company, country... Individualism is not highly regarded there, and it never was.

So rather than seeing Mei as a bad person who will end up with Yuzu despite being unworthy of her, I see a fictional character who was thrown under the bus by an author who was uninterested in developing the themes, plot points, and ideas raised by the rest of the series.

Agree on this completely, what hurt Mei in the eyes of the audience far more than her decisions is the fact we are not actually shown that much of her making those decisions, her thought process and conflicting interests.

tl:dr—Mei’s decision itself can be rationalized; her failure to communicate with Yuzu before making it makes a mockery of the entire previous story. I don’t blame Mei—I blame the author.

Well, on this I actually do not agree (referring to the mockery part). You have a person who has lived constrained by her duties all her life, suddenly, she is pursued by a relentless young maiden who is the exact opposite of her, and who finally batters down her defences and makes her actually experience youth and romance. Mei got swept into a torrent of new experiences, for which she was not prepared. Later, her previous life caught up to her, and the fact Yuzu's influence only strengthened her resolve to inherit the academy (as the letter chapter shows), by making her reevaluate her priorities and realise she legitimately wants the position, certainly complicated things even more for her.

Honestly, it would have been an amazing feat for most people to communicate all this to their partner (because despite the "communicate like normal human beings" term being used in discussions about fiction, most of my life experiences led me to believe actual, open communication on life's problems is more of an exception), but when you factor in that Mei is by her nature a highly reserved, closed person, keeping important things to herself and letting them fester is absolutely in-character for her. Mind you, I am not defending her actions, keeping Yuzu out of the loop and then breaking up via a letter was underhanded and certainly a cowardly way to settle things (which Mei openly admits in said letter), but I do not think it "makes a mockery of the entire previous story", I am actually of the opinion it fits rather well, with both the story and Mei's character.
That being said, the author should have shown us more of her agonising over it, even if it would not make her sympathetic to (western) audiences, it would at least make her position more understandable.

Jesus I cant Harumi's sis is so hot.

Quoted for truth! Like, holy fuck YES!!!

@Blastaar: Agree with every word of your post.

benja is right, apart from discussing how this fits into the wider Master/Mel storyline, this entire thread is a monument to pointlessness. People who attack the work do so because either: A) they want to stroke their own egos by broadcasting how virtuous they are (which I suspect is why most of them are in it); or B) they actually expect the opposing side will at one point go like, "WHOA, this really is the same as real life paedophilia, fuck, you are correct, I feel so ashamed now" (in which case, I have some choice comments about their intellect). Cue the opposing side wasting 10 pages of the thread on lining arguments that the attackers are bound to dismiss completely because it never was about the arguments in the first place. But it must be said, these things always happen the same way, they are always started by the same side. No one amongst those of us who liked it went and posted crap like "yeah, real life paedophilia fucking rocks, everyone grab yourself a kid", no, instead this always starts when moral crusaders attack the work and (as happened here as well) those who read stuff like that, which inevitably causes the defending side to come out in force as well, and when the dust finally settles, no one has changed sides. Every. Bloody. Time.

@Blastaar: Or the bath scene I linked two pages ago. And yet, I still have people telling me there was no indication whatsoever that something lewd was happening off-screen with these two and that I am weird for interpreting it that way (and I interpreted it that way since the beginning). When you factor in the whole slavery angle as well, the length to which some people will go to with mental gymnastics in order to interpret it as non-lewd/pure/whatever is really astounding. My theory always was that the utter cuteness of the art somehow compelled readers to do this. Even the slavery received its fair share of alternate interpretations and "we just do not know enough" arguments, but I am willing to wager if this was another author and the same amount of information was provided, nobody would even question that it is slavery, half the thread would probably be about that.

And before anyone says “I’m not a pedophile I would never think about having se with a real child” THEN WHY TF ARE YOU READING THIS?

You know, the better question is why are you reading this. Not just you in particular, but in general the hordes of people who clearly hate the contents of this upload, and seem to hate anyone who might have enjoyed it. Seriously, why the fuck are you even reading this work? It is clearly tagged, hell, it is clearly titled. The mentality of someone who would deliberately expose themselves to something they know without a shred of doubt they hate, just so they could grandstand on morality in a manga discussion thread, of all places, is quite frankly a deranged thing in its own right.

And lol at the people being "surprised" and whatnot about Hachi doing lewds of these two, it is like people deliberately pretend stuff like this did not happen. The very concept of beastkin screamed hentai, especially coupled with the fact they are basically just slaves (but even then I remember people in the Forum desperately scrambling to somehow interpret it as "willing servitude", "everyone seems happy with the arrangements", "they are more pets than slaves" - as if that makes it better, lol). I expected this sort of thing was happening, I just thought it will forever remain off-screen.

last edited at Jul 20, 2018 1:13AM

Huzza for Hachi porn, long may it reign over the Oneeloli Kingdom!

@Nevri: That is not how fiction works. Reading loli stuff will legitimately turn you into a paedophile, just as reading works which feature incest will make you lust over your own family, and of course, watching stuff like "Dexter" will turn you into a psychopathic serial killer. That is just how fiction works. It is actually amazing fiction is even legal. Imagine how much crime we could prevent if we would just ban works that contain anything morally dubious.

last edited at Jul 19, 2018 5:03PM

https://twitter.com/mesdorei/status/1018512437706817536

I have it on the authority of someone who can actually read this that Husky proposed to Medley.

Edit: Damn, sniped... ;_;

last edited at Jul 16, 2018 3:30PM

^ While the revision is indeed amusing, the original sounds hot as hell, goes nicely with the art.

I can dig this. Definitely. drools

^ Considering how much Yukari was into dressing up when she was infiltrating other schools, and the fact she seemed completely unfazed and as happy as ever when forced to do the anglerfish dance in those... special suits... I can imagine her just fine dressing this provocatively~

Awesome indeed!

Team Can People Stop Bringing Up Their Own Preferred Ships In Images That Do Not Feature Them forever!

But, but that would make Yuuka a . . . say it isn’t so!

I am sorry that I have to be the one to crush your dreams, but... I am afraid it is indeed so... She is a closeted sadist.

I mean, multiple times she shows that she doesn't like to hurt Moe, but she might just turn into a real sadist just for Moe

I think it is more a question of getting comfortable with that side of herself. She definitely has that vibe, even other characters can sense it.

last edited at Jul 4, 2018 12:26PM

SJ's pout slayed me. QT's smile full of affection afterwards slayed me even more. 10/10 content.