To be fair, that's seem more probable in senpai's case. Mom's suicide and little sister hospitalized.

This is Japan, which has ghastly suicide rates even IRL due to a disturbing cultural tendency to treat it as an acceptable solution to an alarmingly vast range of life's problems, and moreover fictional Japan where you get pneumonia from being exposed to light rain, especially if you're female.
Just sayin'.

And have the authorities even tried to address the "both parents dying in a random car accident" epidemic?

Truck-kun 2 stronk :c

To be fair, that's seem more probable in senpai's case. Mom's suicide and little sister hospitalized.

This is Japan, which has ghastly suicide rates even IRL due to a disturbing cultural tendency to treat it as an acceptable solution to an alarmingly vast range of life's problems, and moreover fictional Japan where you get pneumonia from being exposed to light rain, especially if you're female.
Just sayin'.

However it got started, it continues because that's what turns the authors on.

Or what target audiences expect, or editors and authors think the target audiences expect - bit of a "chicken and egg" issue really.

last edited at Sep 28, 2019 4:54PM

Please tell me someone is still keeping taps on many times they say 'boobs' in this? XD

• As if they are (hypothetical) human beings with an (imagined) existence outside the text. (This is where I see most of the highly pro-Igarashi discourse oriented.)

Well my stance is that if the author has gone to the trouble of writing a psychologically plausible character you could without excessive difficulties take for a real person then it's only good manners to also treat them as such. Would be rude to not take the effort invested with due gravitas.

• As signifiers within the text itself whose significance is primarily in relation to other elements of the storyworld. (That’s where my facetious characterization above comes in—slightly exaggerated, it’s what I see as the primary internal POV of the series.)

Note that she already had meaningful narrative significance as Chidori's original Closet Key - Nanoha's confession probably wouldn't have been processed and accepted nearly so smoothly and swiftly if Chidori hadn't already come to terms with being lesbian earlier with Igarashi (heartbreaks nonwithstanding). and then we'd have had to deal with the usual loves me loves not uncertainty period

Again, there’s no doubt that my buy-in to the prevailing ethos of the series makes me resist the “Igarashi-senpai, Lost Lesbian Duckling” reading of that character.

To be frank this sounds at best like the sort of "genre puritanism" - "oh noes actual drama in my fluff, vade retro satanas" - I've denounced before in other contexts; at worst it sounds like a form of warped "purity obsession", nothing negative is allowed into intrude into my fluffy candyland story kind of thing...

Also that easy assumption you're making about "the prevailing ethos of the series" could be debated, as could whether it's even relevant to the topic in the first place.

Personally I find Iggy to be, besides an interestingly conflicted character, straight up narratively useful - she more or less accidentally shakes up the status quo and gives cause for the main pair to engage in some serious thinking (as well as an excuse reveal more of their backstory to the audience), and serves as a healthy reminder that people are fallible beings who can irrepairably fuck up their relationships with wrong choices born out of unresolved anxieties. (Also that trying to have your cake and eat it too rarely works out.)
I believe the technical literary term for the role she plays here is "foil".

[I’m not sure when or if I “identified” with the scenario, and I don’t have time to check back right now—I have bread I need to get into the oven.]

TBH I asked because I, too, had other things to do and it was worth a shot to see if you'd remember and I could skip the backlog trawling. ._.

last edited at Sep 28, 2019 12:16PM

Cow sensei was surprisingly nonchalant about it.

Many of the girls seem quite inured to Kokeshi's antics and just play along tbh
Guess she's seen as the schools mascot human Lovable Sex Maniac or something?

Well was referring more to this part:

I just don’t give a shit. -- But I’m reading this story, where Chidori is our precious cupcake, and Igarashi is the thoughtless, self-centered bitch who casually hurt her,

...because you've voiced that kind of thing often enough in different contexts that I'm having some trouble taking it as ironic. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you a while (ie. several chapters and pages) ago mention something about identifying with the scenario?

"Art is boobs!"
"Okay?"

I like how even Chiaki sounds a little skeptical of that one.

She's just going to do it again. Mio will keep getting hurt by her.

What brand of tea leaves are you using for this forecast? Sounds like they have a higher resolution than mine.

She doesn't care and she tried to make Mio the bad guy in that argument.

Oh she cares all right; too much even. She wouldn't be having a near hysterical breakdown if that wasn't the case. She's frantic, outright panicking and desperate, and severely emotionally rattled - people don't exactly tend to make fair and balanced assessments in that kind of mental state.
She's basically spilling out all her fears, anxieties, frustrations and so on and so on as complete collapse of composure took the various internal dams people hold such things behind with it; that's never a pretty sight.

I'd argue the whole point of the scene was tearing down the idealised perfect sempai/sweet kouhai facades they were projecting onto each other and - so to speak - baring their raw unvarnished souls, Shiz in particular. It's pretty telling that after she stormed out and had a moment to calm down she's entirely spent and literally can't manage anything beyond a final desperate appeal in teary silence.

Luckily for her Mio cares more about Shizuka the Person, "warts and all", than the idealised facade she'd built up that just now "caught fire, fell over and sank into the swamp" as it were. Contrariwise same goes for her and the fantasy all-forgiving Mio in her head (RIP) versus real thing who isn't so unconditionally forgiving.

I don't like Shizuka right now.

That was rather likely the author's intent. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

One interesting thing to note about the entire thing is how on the whole it's fundamentally something of a rerun of Shizuka's breakup with Kaoru years ago - only instead it's now her hauled before the figurative court for philandering, and at very real risk of losing someone of great emotional importance. Shiz is likely too preoccupied by the immediate crisis to consciously realise the Ironic Echo here but it's probably nagging at the back of her head at least...

o my god kaoru realizing she's herself was hilarious.

IKR? This frame is THIS close to some kind of visible aura of power flaring up around her, shounen manga style... which then happens on the next page instead. And what else would it be than lilies? :D

last edited at Sep 28, 2019 10:16AM

I don’t really disagree with anything you say, and as usual your argument is thoughtful and well-supported.

I just don’t give a shit. Yes, if this story were framed differently, it would be different. But I’m reading this story, where Chidori is our precious cupcake, and Igarashi is the thoughtless, self-centered bitch who casually hurt her, then had the gall to assume that her cute, short, round but evidently unable-to-be-fully-conceptualized-as-a-real-human-being kouhai could never reject her own wonderful sempaian self twice.

So kudos to your powers of empathy and imagination. Just don’t come around Nanoha with that bullshit, or there’ll be trouble.

May I just observe this isn't the first time in this topic where you're sounding downright dogmatic...?

I'm digging trenches and setting up flamethrowers.

May I recommend something along the lines of the Abwehrflammenwerfer 42? The bigger sorts get... inconvenient. :v

senpai was proly abused as a child
teens like her were usually abused.

Or in this case, the anti-ship.

The Lorelei is a famous German poem/song about a Siren that sank ships.
One letter off. Just food for thought.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorelei

*Facepalm* I have this nickname from my teenage obsession with game League of Angels. A guardian out there was named Loralei. #justsayin

Before you start attacking me by my nationality, I live more to the east from Germany.

EDIT: I mostly use nickname InessaMaximova. I don't remember why I haven't used it here.

EDIT #2: I said teenage, as I turned 22 few days ago.

This level of missing the joke is downright impressive in a way.

Her hobby wasn't weird.

#peeperghostdidnothingwrong

Hey, gotta respect the girl for being so unflinchingly and unapologetically weird. Plus she tends to make things interesting.

Also I was pretty much right thinking Igarashi was serious, but thought idea of 2 girls dating was impossible. Hence her reacting with shock to "revelation" that Chidori and Nanoha are dating despite being 2 girls.

The whole "not as friends" Valentine's choco thing casts big doubt on that, as in the context it's hard to read any meanings but romantic ones into it (without some truly tortuous mental gymnastics anyway); pretty sure by that point she'd already come around to the idea.

I hold that her shock at their bold declaration (and indeed entire behaviour thereafter) was essentially her fast-tracking through a few of the so-called "five stages of grief", notably the denial/bargaining phase as it fully dawned to her just how hopelessly and irrecoverably late she was and any faint hopes she still had regarding Chidori not so much "crashed and burned" as "blew up already on the tarmac". (The way she was more or less telling Nanoha to "be good to her" before leaving would be the acceptance stage - "at least I know she's in good hands" sort of thing.)

Am I the only one who facepalmed when Kaoru had her 'epiphany' after kissing the blondie?

I dunno if I'm reading it wrong, but to me it's like Kaoru's thinking: That's right, I'm Yamada Kaoru, the invincible vamp! No babe can resist my yuri charm! Why was I moping? All I have to do is keep pushing and Bou-chan will fall into my web!

If that's it, then I'm totes getting that "oh, this can't end well" feeling....

Well she basically just hit the peak (or rock bottom if you prefer) of her lowkey depressive funk and then picked herself up - figures it'd involve casually and almost accidentally seducing a random bystander. (Seriously this girl is a menace.) It's hilarious how you can see her start from (charmingly, natch) listless melancholy worthy of a Romantic poet and gradually get increasingly lively and animated as the flirting progresses.

Curious to see how she intends to reopen her offensive on Bou-chan - who's already picking up an ominous disturbance in the Force - given she already knows her usual methods are useless at best. o3o

On another note poor Hibiki still has shit taste in guys but at least she's taking her heartbreaks in stride now.

literal kindred spirit huh
and, yes, her hobby was weird

lmao Kaoru literally regaing her yuri power by kissing cute girls
actual succubus confirmed

Why did she cave in? AARRGG!!

Because the they're both too invested in their relationship to scuttle it over this. They had their first real crisis; had a great many of the illusions they entertained about themselves, each other and their relationship shattered; finally gave vent to various tensions and negative emotions that had been building up under the surface; and finally, after having had a moment to calm down and ask themselves what next?, realised they're too into each other to call it quits regardless.

To be needlessly poetic about it they bared their souls and accepted each other "warts and all", as it were; having cleared the air and shed the facades they can now carry on and hopefully build a healthier, more honest relationship. (The last one in general is something Shizuka really needs to work on, as she's probably realised herself by now.)

As you said, if that was the case the authors would have written the story differently.

One imagines the series suddenly having a date with Mme Guillotine scheduled may rather have had something to do with it. Tends to force the author's hand more than a bit that.

If you survey the landscape Yuri is filled with bad writing and cliches. The few stories that could be considered to have "good writing" are few and far between or devolve into Yuri cliches half way through. This story is an example right here.

...may I direct you to Sturgeon's Law? I've parsed enough manga - and popular culture in general - to firmly hold that "90% of everything is crap" is a fact thoroughly genre-blind.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 12:16PM

my favorite thing about this manga is that if u listen closely, u can hear the faint soothing sound of police sirens

thinking.jpg
Doesn't look like NY to me...

I think the theory that Miyuki senpai had a sexual relationship with her mother might turn out to be. The way she talks to Asuka; the facial expressions she makes when she say, "If you had been strangers in the past, then maybe you would've never felt this pain," look both sad and lonely, as if she were speaking from experience and the only way she can cope with the pain is by engaging in a marathon of meaningless sex (and yet there is no permanent substitute). Also, she immediately assumed that Asuka was in a sexual relationship with her mom when she said, "Wait, Mom." Some commentators have noted that it is illogical for Miyuki to suddenly assume that Asuka was in a relationship with her mother just from those words. But it would make sense if Miyuki had an illicit relationship with her mother and Asuka's reaction reminded her of her sexual experience with her mother. Thus, Miyuki projected herself onto Asuka in that moment and assumed that Asuka had the same experience as her.

My prediction for the present chapters: Miyuki will try to prevent Asuka from pursuing her mom when she finds out Asuka kissed her mom because Miyuki does not want Asuka to feel the same pain she underwent. Thus, the present chapters will deal with the moral and psychological ramifications of an incestuous relationship with a minor, which I think I had commented about before.

That's a lot of Epileptic Trees largely pulled out of thin air though. Occam's Razor would conversely be that Miyuki's just eerily perceptive enough (which is more or less text), and sufficiently familiar with Asuka, to simply connect the dots as she goes and the latter helpfully keeps blurting out more and more pertinent details.

I'm fairly sure there's the skeleton of a legitimate plot there but oh lawdy is it hard to work out for all the skipped necessary characterisations and expositions and suchlike. Also these scene transitions are abrupt enough I think I may need a neck brace.

It's Asagi Ryuu though so I kind of just tend to take it as "eh sure why not" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Iro-chan knows her tropes and is well prepared.

Geek level OVER 9000

TBH Iro is a welcome mood-lightener and contrast in general. The others are all tangled up in messy relationship issues and personal insecurities and whatnots and she basically just wants to have fun "living her manga-like highschool life" to paraphrase Watamote :d