Nice we got some wingwomen now

I'll still respond to Blastaar's comment though even if it doesn't apply to this series anymore. I think it's healthy to have everything in the open and to be honest with each other about everything that's happened pre-relationship and after. It accomplishes trust and lets both parties know what they're getting into and what to expect from the person they are dating. Because I completely forgot Sora did already reveal she had ulterior motives, it felt off to me since I thought one side apologized and acknowledged their side of the problems, but the other didn't. So this whole time I thought one side was being unfairly rewarded.

I still think this is much ado about nothing, both in this series and in others. This shibboleth of relationships being tainted by “ulterior motives” seems to be based on a highly abstract notion of “healthiness”—so what exactly counts as an “ulterior” motive? People enter into relationships (not just romantic, but also friendships, acquaintances, etc.) for all sorts of motives, and those motives habitually change as the people get to know each other.

One of the commonest tropes in yuri manga is that two people initially get together for reasons that change substantially as their relationship develops. Sure, if Ayaka had continued to be with Sora only because she was being blackmailed, that would be a problem. But that’s not at all what happens here, and while that apology may make you feel better about the story’s “healthiness,” I don’t see how would it affect their ongoing relationship if the apology had never happened at all.

Well I was talking about ulterior motives in relation to this story. Of course everyone has various degrees of "motives" for beginning any type of relationship, but in the case of THIS story, Sora's motive was to get UNCONSENSUAL physical and emotional attention from a crush Sora has been admiring for years from afar and said crush never even knew Sora existed until the blackmail situation.

I think that's a pretty huge fucking problem and red flag irl if it was never addressed and swept under the rug. I use "irl" because how their relationship has been handled is very realistic so it doesn't have the excuse of "it's just a manga"

Like without the apology or at least the other party finding out that "she used this fucked up situation to get closer to me", it just becomes another romanticized "I fell in love with my manipulator" type story. Because remember it wasn't just a simple "Hey I only pretended to need help with my studies as an excuse to spend time with you" type of motive, but straight up blackmail for physical/emotional "requests". Since everything after they had the talk was done so well and were correct ways of handling a relationship, missing this one thing was a glaring error in my brain. It felt they talked about and solved literally every problem except the biggest issue that began the series, that was then ignored and forgotten about. If written like this, it mixes in the message that Sora's behavior is ok since the relationship turned out fine in the end.

I had actually put "I personally prefer if everything was in the open and have everyone be honest with each other" in my previous post, but took out the "personally" because I thought this wasn't even an opinion, but a fact that open communication is great for a healthy relationship. Even if they are being open and honest about everything AFTER they get together, the pre-relationship is still a big part of a relationship and does affect things down the line since it directly involved both of them.

I think it's incorrect to say their relationship wouldnt change if Sora never apologized. For example if Sora never mentioned anything, but Ayaka found out eventually through other means, I think this would change the relationship dynamic. This is a major flaw that she discovered in the person she is dating. How she decides to then proceed with their relationship is up to her. Even if she just brushes it off like she did in the story, it at least gives her the power to decide what to do.

Would they still have the same ongoing relationship if Sora never revealed she had always wanted to be closer to Ayaka? Sure maybe, ignorance is bliss after all, but I wouldn't feel good about it as a reader who knows the whole story because Sora will just feel like a manipulator that got what she wanted and I'd have to deal with everyone praising that their relationship is cute and wholesome. (Which is how I felt and I guess is the whole reason I had that rant in the first place until I was reminded they already talked it out. Didn't realize this fact until I wrote out everything just now lol)

Anyway I should prob do a reread of this series now since I've been reading it wrong for the past 2 years

last edited at Sep 23, 2022 9:50PM

Blastaar said :

They're honest now that they're in a relationship. What would be accomplished by going back and "confessing" that they once had "ulterior motives"?

What's being rewarded is not the "messed up behavior" but the fact that they're confronting and dealing with their feelings as they developed.

I've been thinking for a while now that the Blackmail tag really only applies to the first couple volumes. Even if they're not "together" by the end of chapter 10, they've certainly moved beyond using each other dishonestly.

Ok see yeah I did completely forget about this scene since it was so long ago so thanks for reminding me.

I'll still respond to Blastaar's comment though even if it doesn't apply to this series anymore. I think it's healthy to have everything in the open and to be honest with each other about everything that's happened pre-relationship and after. It accomplishes trust and lets both parties know what they're getting into and what to expect from the person they are dating. Because I completely forgot Sora did already reveal she had ulterior motives, it felt off to me since I thought one side apologized and acknowledged their side of the problems, but the other didn't. So this whole time I thought one side was being unfairly rewarded.

Going back to reread that part in chapter 10, I think the reason why I forgot about this scene and why Ayaka's part stood out more in my subconsciousness was because Ayaka was really clear about how she worded her apology (plus most of the story is from her POV) versus Sora did acknowledge she wanted to be closer to Ayaka since middle school, but didn't outright say she had a crush. Then it all got overshadowed by the LETS BE FRIENDS!! ending lol.

last edited at Sep 23, 2022 3:28PM

Everything in this series lately has been really cute and wholesome but I still can't help but feel off about it. I actually prefer the beginning part since I thought it was more interesting than just pure fluff and messed up relationships are always fun, but I really don't like how everything messed up before is forgotten just cuz MC fell in love.

I really wished they addressed the blackmail thing and how Sora did have ulterior motives from the get go since she had a crush on Ayaka before they "properly" met. All those plot lines were kinda just brushed under the rug so I wished they sat down and had a proper convo about it with each other. Honesty and all that ya know. Without addressing the plot of the first half, it just romanticizes and rewards messed up behavior without acknowledging it was messed up.

Well the series is still ongoing so maybe they'll throw in a casual mention of it eventually (or they already did do that in a previous chapter and I forgot)

I also wanted to add, since there's some comparisons to the 100 days manga, I think I actually hold Lonely Girl to a stricter moral code than 100 Days. The 2nd fluffy half has all been about how to have a proper, healthy relationship, so it is actually more important for this series to have conversations about the blackmailing and ulterior motives. 100 Days I've accepted is pretty much ridiculous porn so I'm able to turn my brain off and not think too hard about it, although that series does have it's own set of issues.....

Edit: so i was reminded they already had a small talk a while back and i did forget, whoops ^^;;

last edited at Sep 23, 2022 2:29PM

Thanks for the rec! Sounds fun and interesting. I just saw the first book is free to read with Amazon Prime so I'll give it a look!

Haruka's expression in that last panel is just too good. Prob my favorite part of this chapter lmfao

Um holy shit the beginning of the chapter was waaaay darker than I expected. It went from 0-100 FAST. Fake/pretend relationship tag acquired!

I got my 1 page and a half of Mona so I'm good :)

A lotta hate for Shion, but I like flawed characters like that. I'm looking forward to her growth since it does seem like the author wants to keep exploring her story.

I like how she graduated from dense-ness but is still dense in the end xD

God the pain....

Aw this extra was super cute!

I also like how it's actually still unclear if they actually are together or not 15 years from now. My first thought was, if they were still together, why would they meet up separately? I'm assuming after 15 years they'd be living together, but of course they could have other things going on that prevented them from living together. There's also a shot of the rings, but we can't really tell for sure if they are couple rings or not.

Either way they clearly still have a good relationship and this was a really sweet, chill chapter.

[...] as long as negative comments are actually constructive criticism [...]

See, to me, constructive criticism isn't negative at all. It's a great starting point for discussion or disagreement, but it's positive because you can build on it. I see negative comments as the ones that don't leave room to build.

Well constructive criticism mostly doesn't really make sense in this context, since we're not giving the authors recommendations on things they've done well or can improve. We're stating our opinions to other readers and maybe the occasional translator. Those can receive constructive criticism (ob boy did I fail at that when I first landed here) by us, but that's less criticism of the work itself but rather the post-processing done to it. It doesn't really pertain to the content of the story.

As such it's more an exchange of opinions with the aim of refining our own and others' perspectives rather than giving criticism to a creator.

That's interesting. Personally I adopted the word "productive" a couple years ago to capture that difference. I think your definition "don't leave room to build" is a very good one.

Good points! It was my bad and "constructive criticism" was a poor choice of words to explain what I meant. Never really thought about it in that way before, but I like the word "productive" to differentiate what I mean haha.

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 8:02PM

i love negative comments! It makes things more interesting. There's not much discussion to be had if it's only positive comments especially since most positive comments don't actually go in depth into why it's good, and I don't blame people since it's often times harder to explain why you like something than why you hate something. It's kinda why lots of VERY good manga like https://dynasty-scans.com/series/ikoku_nikki don't have many comnments because there's not a lot to add that the manga itself hasn't already said perfectly.

Nothing much to add to what's already been said, but yeah as long as negative comments are actually constructive criticism and not just purely shitting on the media it's all good. Or shitting on the manga for morality sake when the tags were clearly labeled. I think the only other time I dislike negative comments is when the discussion turns into an argument and just goes on and on and on in circles since neither side wants to give in or walk away. But usually by then a mod steps in anyway.

Aaaaaa this just got 10403424x times better.

I 100% agree. Til now I was pretty meh about this series since I didn't really care for this contract sisters and I didn't like how seemingly naive the love interest was so this chapters revelations made everything soooo much better. It's made her character a lot more interesting. Looking forward to where this series is going now.

Like where the focus of the plot is about everyone trying to get with the MC of the harem and the narrative kinda disregards everyone else's character aside from their feelings for MC. I think the harem genre also has this vibe of a power imbalance.

That's exactly the vibe I'm getting here, though. Everyone is obsessed with this one woman. They don't care about the others at all, it's all about what Tsuzuki wants. The entire focus is on everyone's feelings for Tsuzuki. The only difference here is our MC is one of the harem members rather than the center, so we have a different perspective on it. Franky, I think if everyone in this story were gender swapped, or even worse if everyone but the MC were gender swapped thus removing any queer relationships at all, everyone would be calling Tsuzuki the scum of the earth, even if the dialogue was all basically the same.

Just because they're "obsessed" with this one woman, (which I disagree and think Kashiwai is the only one who is actually obsessed right now and she's not officially part of the polycule yet) doesn't mean that there is a power imbalance, which I think is the main factor for polycule vs harem. Of course they don't care about the others at all because they aren't dating each other, but that doesn't mean they hate each other. Hiroki even tells Tsuzuki to say "thanks" to Fukunaga.

To me it's not a harem since everyone is being transparent, communicative and respectful of each others' boundaries. All parties involved are in a consensual relationship and know exactly what they are getting into. Like I said before in the part that you did not include in the quote, Tsuzuki also does things for the benefit of her partners like agreeing to the marriage ceremony. Even if Tsuzuki were a man and all the love interest were women, I still wouldn't think he were the scum of the earth because what they have is a healthy relationship so what is there to judge? Tsuzuki is very clear about the rules and does not push or manipulate the others into a relationship with her. She even gives Kashiwai time to mull over her feelings and it's always Kashiwai who oversteps the business boundary.

In a way maybe because the MC is one of the "harem" members is why you see Tsuzuki's relationships as a harem. Kashiwai herself does not understand polyamorous relationships yet and her thought process/feelings leaks into the narrative that we see. Because most of the story so far is about Kashiwai's obsessive and overwhelming feelings for Tsuzuki, I guess I can see why it can be interpreted that way. But if you look at what we've been shown disregarding Kashiwai's feelings, it's a balanced relationship on Tsuzuki's end with her male partners so far. There isn't a sense of power fantasy that you'd normally get from typical harem series. I don't get the feeling that Tsuzuki revels in the fact that all these hot guys and gals are throwing themselves at her.

It's a refreshing portrayal of polyamory.

What's the line between polyamory and someone just making a harem for themselves? I get that not every instance of polyamory has every participant in love with every other participant, but the name by definition implies a lot of LOVE. Here I'm just seeing a bunch of people in love with one woman and they kind of barely tolerate each other, mostly to sate that ONE woman.

To me I think harem is more of a fetishization of polyamory and it's more focused on the sexual aspect of it. Like where the focus of the plot is about everyone trying to get with the MC of the harem and the narrative kinda disregards everyone else's character aside from their feelings for MC. I think the harem genre also has this vibe of a power imbalance.

This doesn't read as harem to me because everyone involved (besides Kashiwai since she's new and still figuring her feelings out) is fully communicative and transparent with each other. They have clear rules and boundaries. Tsuzuki's partners aren't the only ones doing things to "sate" her, she is also doing things for her partners' happiness. The wedding isn't something she really wanted to do, but she did it because her fiancé wanted to and it also benefitted Fukunaga who thrives off getting cucked.

Their relationship operates just like a monogamous relationship, just with more people.

I wonder if Awa revealing to the boss about knowing Kashiwai's involvement with Tsuzuki will do anything. Fukunaga already warned Kashiwai to keep business and private matters separate so I feel like this just proves she couldn't....

Shouldn't the boss already know, since he's part of the polycule?

No not about the relationship but that it has already leaked into her work life by having coworkers getting involved. I read the boss's warning like "it's cool if it doesn't affect your work life and if no one finds out (like how i've been doing it)", but now it'll be revealed that someone else in the company HAS found out.

I'm sorry the more this series goes on the more I hate Tsuzuki. She's so fucking smug and like she's the queen bee and I just hate her so damn much. If I didn't want to keep reading this train wreck just to see Kashiwai get her crushed and feel awful I would have dropped this a few chapters ago.

I think you need to reread chapter 3 because we were shown that Tsuzuki is FAR from smug. She doesn't believe she owns her partners and doesn't manipulate them in any way. She set clear rules and boundaries for her relationships and is standing by them. Tsuzuki is not the one in the wrong here so there really isn't anything for her to deserve being crushed. Your comment actually kinda reminds me of how her ex-best friend reacted to her being "whatever" about her boyfriend cheating on her. Just cause you don't understand how she operates doesn't mean she's an evil cold hearted bitch

last edited at Sep 1, 2022 7:20PM

God I just love this even more with every chapter. I loved that panel transition from Awa asking if Kashiwai was gonna be alright, to Kashiwai waving away his concerns and then getting a cold dose of reality in the next. The impact of it just hurt so good.

I also love how even with Kashiwai's addition that Tsuzuki is still holding firm to her rules and doesn't give her any special treatment. It's a refreshing portrayal of polyamory. Seems to me the way this story is gonna go more into how Kashiwai will deal with the true reality of what it means to be with Tsuzuki and that there's more to consider than the fantasy that she's been having in her head.

I wonder if Awa revealing to the boss about knowing Kashiwai's involvement with Tsuzuki will do anything. Fukunaga already warned Kashiwai to keep business and private matters separate so I feel like this just proves she couldn't....

Sad there's gonna be a hiatus for the next month, but I'll wait patiently :) (still would like a chapter from Tsuzuki's pov soon!)

Couple of pages in and I knew the style was familiar! Always enjoy this author's humor and works

Somehow, the start feels quite generic to me. The last panel is promising, but the whole exorcist vs. succubus fight felt like a paint-by-numbers action opening. It wasn't bad by any means (and the art is very good), it just wouldn't hook me on the story at all if I hadn't read the blurb first.

Lol these manhua always start out feeling like you've missed 10 chapters

It's called "in medias res" and some folks, me included, much prefer it to the infodumps explaining the world and the magic system at the start of the first chapter. :-)

I dont enjoy info dumps either but I still feel they just dump you into the middle of the story unnaturally. I prefer the world building to be gradually told. And like you've described in your comment, this chapter 1 in particular didn't even really explain anything that would give us a hint of what the real story is about so I kinda fail to see the reasoning for it here.

I feel the pacing will prob be better once it gets to what the author actually wants to write about, but yeah these sudden starts are always just so jarring for me

Yay finally! Now go forth and live a happy yuri end! I love how Nico is also involved in their idea of family too.

Lol these manhua always start out feeling like you've missed 10 chapters

Yay! An update! Thanks everyone who worked on it!

Kiku is seriously the best gf you could have

I'm always down for more villianess yuri no matter how generic loool

Wow Tsukushi in this version is so much more self aware. I wasn't expecting a sneak confession and acceptance of her feelings this early on

This is why kids need leashes man