Sure raised an eyebrow when I saw that title. But it's perfect. Her mom even made fun of Pei Yu's attempt being foiled by customer service.

I love that this is a highly deserved Idiot Couple, and yet it's not because they're fussing or hesitating, just that they always try to make silly attempts to get closer to the other or bailing out from being too direct. I just love such motivated, proactive characters.

"Where's that scent of plum blossom coming from ?"

Hahaha. I loved this chapter. Xing teasing Liaoliao with her "friend" and telling her not to play dumb was already very nice to see. But the last part with the telegraphed falling in love got me grinning wide all the way.

I'm surprised people call this ending ambiguous. It seems that Asami was kidnapped and murdered, simple as that. That the guy was found and she wasn't, never appeared again, and the "ghost" vision at the end make it extremely clear (in fact you couldn't make it any clearer without being explicit about it).

Between that and the last volume being spent on pointless search and giving up, with pretty much no character development or plot thread to follow, I'm convinced that the author got pissed at this manga being axed and decided to punish the readers with an awful ending.

Yeah... gonna go with tsundere there. Talking about a girl who shares room, bath and bed with someone who's very, very obviously in love with her and not hiding it, so "she's actually not interested" isn't exactly what strikes me as the best interpretation.

Of course, the fact that they're both over-the-top in their respective category is part of the humor, which not everyone will like.

Also, I guess I might relate a bit too much to the girl who likes romance in 2D but is disillusioned about things being as nice in 3D, and so pretends not to be interested.

It's funny to see the reactions to this story and to compare it to others in similar scenarios. Typically, when you have a character who's like "I can't choose" and the one going after her says "I don't mind if I date only you while you date multiple people", the reaction gears towards yay, harem.

But when the one going after actually doesn't want to be treated as one out of many, the reaction is the one she loves is a player, it's awful, she should go after someone better. The contrast between the two, and pushing "guilt" on the target of affection even though she is behaving in the same way in both examples, is strange. (I guess it helps that in the first scenario the protagonist is the target, in the second the protagonist is the one who fell in love).

Either way, I rather like this story. In addition to the bait-and-switch at the start, this is actually a pretty interesting take on two people with different views on love. They naturally wouldn't have a good chemistry, but are interested enough in each other to consider their options despite those being away from their comfort zone.

That was a surprisingly good chapter. Marika's reaction was very understandable, after what Aya has said she had every right to be angry at someone appearing to her door and claiming to be her sex friend, while after what Aya has done there was no particular reason to doubt Asta.

Aya had to be particularly convincing to defend herself, but after talking with Karen she managed to say it right, and Marika accepted her explanation. And they clearly made a lot of progress. I actually didn't expect for Aya to have been hiding so much.

Threesome and foursome jokes aside, for someone like Marika, being dragged into that kind of discussion unexpectedly will naturally make her feel like she was toyed with, so I'm glad it was treated seriously and cleared up as a misunderstanding caused by Asta and Karen, and not brushed out of the way with a sex resolution.

Pretty sure it's been already pointed out a few times before that arranged marriage is not the same as forced marriage.

It has also been pointed out that this argument is unconvincing, considering that the queen didn't have a choice to say no. Or is anyone arguing that she could have done that ? I haven't seen it.

The best difference you can make, if you are an optimist and think that she was not forced (which require some assumption about what would have happened if she refused), is to consider that she was raised from birth to think she doesn't have a right to choose. Moving from rape territory to grooming territory isn't such a victory for that side of the argument - and either way, the phrasing "forced marriage" holds, since there is still no choice.

Arranged marriage, for its modern definition, in most parts of the modern world, does give the right to the people being married to refuse the partner chosen by their parents, as freedom to choose who (and whether) you marry is protected by law. Whether that actually holds in practice and whether such a choice is free when the people involved might be under pressure from their family isn't totally convincing, but there are many cases where people actually do refuse arranged marriages until they find the right partner.

Note that the king is also a victim here. Both of them were forced to share the bed of someone without being given a choice. Which is why I preferred to describe them as victim of forced marriage, so that none of them is pointed at as a "guilty party".

last edited at Jan 30, 2023 11:21AM

I initially wanted to add this to my previous comment, but I wasn't fast enough, and it feels dishonest to edit it in after the comment received a reply. So here's an addendum to what I was saying above.

Being forced to break up with your lover to become the spouse and mate of some stranger without being given a chance to say no is a tragedy, and should be treated as such by both the author and the audience.

This is both out of tact, and moral considerations : certain practices are now practically extinct and looked down upon or even forbidden (or at least theoretically are, as Red K.'s example pointed out). This is because, humanity having achieved a higher level of social and moral maturity, we now regard those practices as unethical and immoral. Those lessons are not something that should be forgotten or ignored, as they were before : a depiction of something that modern humans consider bad, should include the elements which have made us consider it bad in the first place.

And so what is the purpose of going through such intellectual contortions?

A bit of all of what you said. But how I would phrase it myself is : the purpose of criticizing such plot development is to point out that positive portrayal of forced marriage, acceptance thereof, depicting the optimistic possible consequences of it while ignoring the pessimistic ones, and more generally spreading or defending such practices through the lens of characters being happy after having those forced on them is morally wrong, for both the writer and readers.

Being forced to break up with your lover to become the spouse and mate of some stranger without being given a chance to say no is a tragedy, and should be treated as such by both the author and the audience.

last edited at Jan 30, 2023 6:44AM

I mentioned my profile picture before, but seriously read Urara Meirochou, there is no better manga to portray the breaking of fate away from a tragic ending that the previous generation suffered, better than this one.

It depends on how the "tragic ending" is depicted. If it's something the characters struggled against, opposed, but failed to defeat - then that's interesting. However, if it's a tragic ending the characters accepted, tacitly approved, and the story goes on to show that they're still happy despite the tragedy and not trying to break free from it - then I'm not interested in that kind of story. What matters isn't that tragedy happens or doesn't happen, it's how the characters react to it, whether they are showed to oppose or accept it.

I guess Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de Aru would be a pretty good example. The show has tragedy upon tragedy, often enough with permanent consequences, but the characters keep fighting against them, even when it means opposing the status quo and taking risks by shaking things.

I've only watched the anime, so I don't actually know which one the Urara Meirochou manga follows. I wouldn't read the manga without confirming that first, though, as I'd rather keep my happy memories of the story that was adapted in the anime.

Edit Maybe a more concise way to say it is : if a tragedy doesn't have negative consequences, all the characters accept it without a fight, and ends with everyone being happy, then is it really (depicted as) a tragedy ?

last edited at Jan 30, 2023 3:02AM

"Sorry, I am looking for someone else. I won't go out with you."
"Okay, what about just one date ?"

Why... is this always like this ? It's like manga is incapable of doing a proper rejection.

I'm happy that Asumi was very clear with Nanao when she said she's looking for Mai. If Nanao gets a bittersweet memory from this, that's on her for making such a request and not accepting the rejection. While I'd rather have had Asumi refuse, it makes sense for her to accept, as she probably sees it as a one-time thing like all of her brothel bookings.

I hope this arc will soon be over. The whole plot with Nanao falling in love with Asumi has been pretty annoying and obviously meant to artificially prolong the story, but I'd rather we go back to the search for Mai.

Obviously Mitsuki's social awkwardness was going to cause disappointment for Aya.

The good thing is that now there is no way her and Chizuru won't talk... right ?

last edited at Jan 29, 2023 10:00AM

The way those characters have fairly simple motives and yet complex reactions to it, constantly shifting and not knowing what to do, is wonderful. It really captures that feeling of not knowing what you want, hesitating to take the next step.

I'm happy if Shion can find her footing, too. Her complex relation to Kiki has hidden for a long time the fact that she also loves dancing, and she's finally cracking her shell. While she might be distressed about getting first place, I think it shows that her efforts to continue dancing didn't just give her an excuse to stay close to Kiki, they also made her grow as a person and as a dancer.

I also expect this as the most likely way the story plays out. I've been of this opinion for the longest time, it was rather clear that Aki has been of some noble status at the very least, and that whatever drove her from her home must have been significant enough for her to completely ditch that status. I hope this finally comes into play.

This take might be what is most likely to happen, but doesn't really make sense. The whole counter-reaction argument is "this comp-het for the queen shouldn't go away, because she is happy in the end". After you trim down the why and how around it, it's all that remains : it happens, and the characters should accept it, and we should move on.

So... if we take that at face value, why put so much emphasis on the fact that it will definitely not happen to Momo ? She is also royalty, she is no more in love with Aki than the queen and Juju were. Their situations are pretty much identical. If the author (and defenders) state that being forced to marry a guy from another country is okay, and the characters will find happiness anyway, then shouldn't you also be content if the same happens to Momo ?

And yet, I think that if this story ends with Aki and Momo breaking up, Momo having to marry and bear the children of some Penguin prince or whatever, and a "happy ending" in which she's shown to have a happy family and being good friends with Aki, people will not say that this was okay and that is how it should have ended.

So the defense is pretty much equivalent to saying that this shouldn't happen, but if it happens and the characters are happy in the end, it's not a big deal. I'm surprised that the readers here would be so complacent with this forced marriage trope, or claim that a story showing a character who was forced to give up on her sexual orientation is a good thing. And I don't see why it should be okay for the queen, but not for Momo - except out of main character favoritism.

Besides, Lilisionnach said that this "sucks". But what will happen to Momo and Aki before they are allowed to be together is very likely to suck, too. So if it sucks either way, and she's happy in the end either way, does that mean both the "forced marriage to a stranger" and "struggle until proving that Aki is royalty" are plot directions we should be equally happy with ? I don't think so.

Not to mention, this story, and its author, have been very consistent in their approach to conflicts and in the lightheartedness of the story

For 24 chapters, I would have agreed with you. Then the author inserted a character who was forced to give up on her lover and sexual preferences, marry and bear the children of someone she doesn't love, and wrote the story in a way that implies that this is all acceptable because she's happy in the end (apparently, convincing many readers). And if you disagree and think the author meant to show that this is not okay for the queen, please point where you saw that to me; showing her happiness with the current situation very strongly points in the other direction. I do not think the "comp-het is a bit sad but okay in the long run" is an acceptable statement for the author to make.

This isn't lightheartedness. This (the queen and Juju being forced to break up) isn't a conflict that the author seems intent to fix, either.

It's been a fluff ride since page 1, and I see no indication of it changing

This chapter was fluff to you ?

This leads to the biggest point, the folks jumping the gun have done so while the story is still laying the groundwork of the current plotline

I mean, if the plot line end up with the queen and Juju actually being freed of their forced separation and having a chance to become lover again, I will happily take back my complaints - if you don't see me on the forum at that time saying that I'm happy with the resolution, it means I have stopped following this. And it's not even that unlikely : it would be a pretty straightforward direction for the story to have the king and queen see Momo being allowed to love whoever she wants, and actually want this happiness for themselves. They were both victims of their forced marriage and seem to be pretty much on the same line of thought, "you're a good person, but I don't feel love towards you", while also having the power to choose to divorce and marry out of love if they want to.

But even though it's possible, it's unlikely that the story will go in that direction. The way this chapter reads is that the author is telling us "she is happy now, so it's fine if she was forced to marry a man". Both I and the people I'm arguing against agree on that : this situation is the happy ending that the queen should be content with, and if you think being forced to marry a man who's actually nice isn't something a woman should be content with, then this story isn't for you.

last edited at Jan 28, 2023 11:47AM

It's pretty surprising to see a reason to hesitate that is fine to worry about, yet can be easily solved. Feels like someone took the drama out of my drama. And it comes out just cute, which I like.

That said, anybody who hasn't picked up on all the foreshadowing that Aki's temporarily embarrassed wolf royalty is reading a different manga than the one I've been reading.

It's obvious that it will be fine for Momo. So obvious in fact that I don't think anyone really cares to discuss it. At most, people could complain that it's an annoying trope to build drama from.

But the queen and the dressmaker are going to keep living their happy forced heterosexual / single life, the queen possibly have yet more sex with the husband she didn't want because the kingdom needs more heirs. Which, you know, is fine, because the king is a nice guy anyway! This pair, I believe, is what many people (including me) are angry with.

There is little doubt that most of this drama would have been avoided if the chapter didn't start with the two ex-lovers. The trope itself is annoying; showing the trope in play, with two characters that should be together being friends, having happily accepted it but not moved on, and with no hope for them to actually achieve romantic happiness... that's like taking a trope which already hurts, and repeatedly bashing you in the face with it. Most other works using this trope don't do that (even if they happen to show the ex-lovers, their meeting tends to be a painful reminder, not a demonstration to convince the readers of how happy the characters are after having gone through this), which is why even this fairly common trope got a harsher reaction here.

(...) but portraying at as "forced to have babies" is extreme and evidence of your own non-realistic view of the world.

It might be "realistic", but when a character is forced to have sex with another, whether it's to produce heirs or anything else, not being given a choice to refuse, there is a specific word for it. One that we sometimes avoid spelling because it can be a trigger word for some people.

I think adding to that the additional burden of having to continue living with that person and being forbidden of pursuing your own romantic or sexual preferences only worsens an already awful situation.

This is what makes uses of this trope (as anything other than an evil act), especially when portrayed in a positive light with the characters happily living in acceptance of it, indefensible. It's no more "realistic" than the barbarian acts of invading armies on the people of the countries they invade, for example, but while those are never used as an "awkward but still okay" trope and narrative tool, forced marriage is, for some reason. At least, many works use it exclusively as something to run away from (MagiRevo, which just aired its third anime episode, did just that with at least three different characters running away or suffering from that trope), striking what I would call an acceptable middle ground since, at least, the work uses the trope but doesn't portray it in a positive light, displaying a mix of historical (if such a word can be used for fantasy worlds) practices and critical comment on their immorality.

last edited at Jan 27, 2023 9:04PM

But I guess the author knows how to set up this kind of drama, that was 10/10 way to make readers blood boild

Just the prospect of Momo being forced to marry someone else would have been enough to make people angry, if that was the purpose. The queen being in the same situation and happy with the arrangement while her ex is still there as a hanger-on is just pouring oil on the fire for no purpose other than making the situation look okay.

Maybe the goal was to make this arc feel like a genuine threat because "if the author did it once, it could happen again", but that's a very tasteless way to do it, because the queen is still a character, even if not the main one, and it's no more acceptable for that to happen to her than it is for Momo.

The fact that the queen was forced to break up her relationship with the tailor was a tragedy, but wishing to have her current relationship crumble yet again seems counterproductive to me. That would just be yet another tragedy and wouldn't actually "fix" anything.

Because, in the current state, the author is making a statement that a good story (in the happy romance genre at least, as drama and tragedies would follow different rules) can use forced marriage (with all the heteronormativity associated, and the dark implications of being forced to bear someone's children without having a say) and it is perfectly fine for the characters to follow that plot line. It's also directly supporting that forcing someone to break up with their beloved and become the wife and mate of someone they never met is fine, "as long as they are happy in the end".

Honestly, I find the inclusion, and in particular portraying in a good light, of that situation highly problematic and disturbing. That's why I'm suggesting a divorce plot direction would correct this - it doesn't have to be a tragedy, just both characters agreeing that their marriage was not out of love but political interests, and that they would both be happier if they separated and were free to pursue their true love. Considering the queen and the dressmaker still see each other and, indeed, seem to still love each other, that would be a perfect solution to get a happy ending for everyone in-universe; while narratively, the story would distance itself from the positive portrayal of forced marriage, without shifting its tone by hurting the characters.

But as I said, I'm not holding out on hope. I feel that the author is making this situation seem okay, and that the queen will just continue to accept her role as a victim of abusive authority. I'd love to be proven wrong, obviously. But right now, it's making me very uncomfortable, and I'm actually considering whether I should support an author writing such stories, even if the rest of the story (e.g., regarding Momo) is happier.

"There is a girl you love and who loves you back ? Too bad, go spread your legs for this guy you never met."

I hate and despise this. Way to ruin a manga that had managed to make everything nice so far.

At this point, this will leave a sour taste on the whole story, no matter how the rest of the characters fare. Unless they pull a royal divorce or something similar, but I'm not getting my hopes up, there's basically zero chance of that happening.

Heeh, the young lady wants Chloé ? That's not good, I don't know where to put Mia on the board now.

Maybe we can get the mistress to fall for Mia, so we get both of them wanting both maids.

I really hope this discussion will end well for Shiho. Ultimately, the two most important things that have brought her to where she is now (heartbreak and losing someone important) were out of her control, and she's turned bitter since that. If she can reconcile with Aki while keeping her ties with her current band, she might finally get out from the rut she's in.

Although I must credit this manga for not making the resolution obvious. With Aki's characterization, it's entirely possible that she will shoot Shiho down again, but explicitly this time. Which would be an acceptable resolution, because Shiho would still be able to go back to her band and finally cut ties with Aki's group, like she's tried to do for a while. Himari is the only other one who ties the two groups together, and the story doesn't necessarily have to accommodate her to give the best ending for her.

I'm still a bit annoyed by how Himari acted in this arc. Forcing Chiho to interact with her former crush even though she just wanted to forget her and cut ties was pretty disrespectful. So if she's the one feeling down at the end of the arc, I wouldn't really mind, as it's the logical result of her actions.

Of course, drama pay-off and characterization aside, seeing a happy side couple would still be my preferred outcome...

Hooo, new girl.

I wonder who she'll fall in love with once she's over her crush on Natsuko. Maybe Natsuko's sister ?

No idea how it will go next or whether Maron will accept, but at least Makino confessed. Regardless of everything else, her keeping her true intentions hidden didn't bring anything good (not that it brings anything in other stories most of the time, either).

I cant believe Yamada is actually calm with this whole situation.

Yamada looks depressed as hell. She's been looking down the entire chapter and talking about how much she regrets not moving out sooner.

"But I just have to win, right ?" Godsfuckingdammit Kase. Unrealistic hopes for future directions aside, she'd better lose that race and actually face her own responsibilities. If she gets away with a win because she's the protagonist or Fukami backing down while Kase hasn't learned anything...

At least she apologized and admitted that she panicked. Doesn't excuse her, but it's a step. She still doesn't see any issue with betting her future on a race, though. The last line makes it sound like Yamada is going to properly tell her that it's not okay to brush aside long-term plans to move in with your girlfriend because your roommate got angsty.

New ship acquired !

"But they literally just fought and then barely agreed that they don't hate each other ?!"