Exactly, and I think this is why Yuu is the better match for Touko. Yes, Sayaka does understand how Touko works and what her motivations are and gives her privacy, but this is ultimately not very healthy for Touko because it just perpetuates her cycle of self-loathing and her self-esteem issues. And it doesn't help that Sayaka is so caught up in her own jealousy and "I've known Touko longer than Yuu has" attitude that it prevents her from really doing anything to help Touko.

Yuu, on the other hand, eventually understands just how unhealthy Touko's motivations and self-esteem issues are and is doing something about it. Sure, it may not be something that Touko wants and she's doing it without really talking to Touko first, but she's doing it because she loves Touko (whether she realizes it or not) enough to do that. She doesn't want Touko to continue hating and punishing herself, and she'll be the "bad guy" if it means Touko has a chance for a happier life. Sayaka cares about Touko, but she's ultimately a little more selfish than Yuu.

Sayaka & Yuu are almost two sides of the same coin. They both know about Touko's situation and both have to hide their feelings & remain at a certain distance from her in order to stay by her side. But unlike Yuu, Sayaka is comfortable with the distance. It's good to compare last chapter with this latest one. While Sayaka initiated the conversation and even got Touko to talk about her worry with her, that confrontation just ended without ever going anywhere far, unlike Yuu's confrontation this chapter, which was really up close and personal. "I'm fine with you knowing," & that's good enough for Sayaka. She's fine with just knowing, unlike Yuu who decided that Touko shouldn't remain in her self-destructive behavior. Always the first one to learn, never the first to take action.

Your point just made me notice something about Yuu and Touko's relationship. Someone brought up to me that Yuu is changing Touko, but I don't think that's the case. Touko pointed out to Yuu a while ago that she loves her just the way she is, and Yuu has already realized the reasons why. However, that isn't the case with Yuu to Touko. She wants Touko to realize and understand that she loves Touko just the way she is, as well, and that for her to hate herself is to be unfair to the both of them.

And I feel like that's what Yuu is going for with this whole "changing the ending." Whether or not Yuu has fully admitted it to herself yet, she wants Touko to be in this relationship on equal grounds with her. She wants this relationship to be mutual, and if Touko is going to be in it hating herself, then Yuu wants Touko to realize that that isn't fair and healthy to the both of them.

It's so, SO good how there's this stress on relationships being an equal, loving partnership, and I'm so glad that Yuu has finally realized this to be the case and is doing something about it. Also, her doing something about it just shows that she WANTS this relationship to work. She WANTS to keep being with Touko, and she wants the BOTH of them to be happy. She has a strong sense of self-respect (that, in my opinion, a lot of shoujo and yuri protagonists don't have) and love for another person that it's making me feel so many fluffy things <3

(Also, I hope all of this made sense. I've been working all day @_@)

I think one the things that does make this manga so great is Yuu's personality. Unlike alot of female mc's in general she isn't particularly shy or insecure. She isn't overly emotional and generally doesn't freak out over things or break down crying. She is a more logical level headed thinker than emotional. Top it off she is stubborn and not afraid to state her opinion and what she is thinking even if it means talking back to her sempais. Then to finish it off she is caring and a bit of a caretaker who isn't afraid to take charge of a situation when someone needs help like Touko during the election speech and when it was raining and told her friend instead going home with her to go with the guy she liked who didn't have a umbrella. Even this chapter where she is the one holding touko as they laying on the bed where normally you'd expect the older girl to be the one doing that.

Hmm latest chapter never got added to bato.

Nezchan said:

Yamada really is a lot more confident now, isn't she? Will my dream of her initiating a kiss with Kase-san really come true?

I'm glad you said that, because everything physical has been initiated by Kase san. Though I'm impressed as shy as Yamada could be, she often took the initiative to visit Kase, especially when she felt Kase was lonely. I'll flip soooo many tables the day Yui initiates a kiss!

Well not completely True. Yamada has hugged Kase a couple times one time making Kase very flustered to I believe.

It is no wonder Yamada has a aversion to guys. The keep running her over.

Kase you gf is traveling 2 hours just to bring you flowers. That is a good SO you have there. Now Yamada you are sleeping together I think you can handle using first names. I guess current tension thing is gonna be them not being able get time together. I can see Yamada getting caught up in her school activities with garden and all and not making enough effort to see Kase and Kase starting get upset feeling neglected.

Still resistant to using their first names, I see

Yamada seems a bit embarrassed when it comes to Kase using her first name for some reason

I wonder if that's going to be the major plot conflict in the upcoming chapter. The next big relationship hurdle, as it were.

It might just be that it is because the author used the characters last name as the title. Horimiya is like that. The two MC are very committed to each other but still call each other by the last name. Complicating things even more is the girls family are active characters in the story and ones he interacts with a lot. They even address a few times the whole calling each other by first/last name thing. Haveing the title being characters names just makes it hard to change how the MCs are referred to.

"How can you say you hate something I lo..." The covered up word is obviously love. She finally admitted it, at least to herself. Now she's setting out to make Nanami stop hating herself, which is step 1 on the path to her being able to stop lying about her own feelings... You go Yuu! You might need Sayaka's help... I don't know if she'll be willing, though. In order to get her help, Yuu will probably have to admit her feelings to Sayaka, which opens up a whole can of worms...

Sayaka is so stuck up on her self gratification trip that she is the only one who Touko needs and can help her It will be hard to get her to admit otherwise. Especially with that other person being Yuu. She is in self denial as is that there is something more between Touko and Yuu than just Sempai and kouhai even though she does already realize that there is. She already harbors some jealousy towards Yuu and dear god her head would explode if she knew what they were doing in Yuu's bedroom this chapter.

Hmmm I wonder what Sayaka was imaging would happen if she had left Yuu and Touko alone in the bath together.

What Touko said this chapter actually worries me a little bit. Touko's love is so conditional and to be able say she can't love her if those specific conditions are no longer met makes it seem that just maybe it isn't love in the first place. What if in the end she doesn't actually love her but instead is just a release, infatuation, lust, or something else that she is mistaken for love? It really is impossible to tell how things are going turn out with this story at this point.

In the beginning, it was never love that Touko had for Yuu, you're right. Her love, as revealed in chapter 10, was all based on conditions, self-gratification, & emotional-relief. But I do think that as the story progresses, Touko has been developing a rather personal bond with Yuu & I doubt there's been no growing feelings at all. It's interesting to compare this chapter to chapter 10. The same basic conditions to their relationship are reiterated, but unlike chapter 10 where Touko was willing to move on from Yuu, now she doesn't want to lose her. The only thing that hinders Touko from truly loving Yuu is her world view which is based on her own insecurities (lack of idenity and low self-esteem). If she is able to overcome this somehow, hopefully, she'll be able to open up herself to accept her own feelings & Yuu's as well.

But ofc, this is just me and my optimistic view on the story. Touko's love may just remain shallow till the very end & she'll never be able to overcome her own problems. If that's the case, then poor her & ofc Yuu too for having to experience such a shitty first love.

I think Touko needs to have a conversation with Yamada about dealing with relationships and low self-esteem/insecurities.. God it feels weird trying think of Yamada as the older/more experienced character in anything.

Is it possible that if Touko really, REALLY love Yuu, she wouldn't abandone Yuu even after she confessed to her? O.o

Yeah, though at the current stage, if Yuu is to carelessly confess, she'll probably throw Touko into further despair since the last string to her current world view that she's holding onto will be gone. Either that will be a catalyst for change or it'll be a catalyst for suicide.

What Touko said this chapter actually worries me a little bit. Touko's love is so conditional and to be able say she can't love her if those specific conditions are no longer met makes it seem that just maybe it isn't love in the first place. What if in the end she doesn't actually love her but instead is just a release, infatuation, lust, or something else that she is mistaken for love? It really is impossible to tell how things are going turn out with this story at this point.

Sayaka vs. Yuu is going to explode one of these days.

Syaka's uppity attitude of how she is the closest person to Touko and the only person who Touko needs is starting to get annoying. Ok she doesn't know all that is going on but she clearly knows there is more to Yuu and Touko's relationship than just simply senpai and kohai. Sometimes a person like that is really low as they are really just doing it for their own self satisfaction and not just because they truly care about the person. A whole hey look at me ain't I great how I'm here for this person. No one else can help this person like I can. Sometimes they even drive off anyone else who tries to be close or helpful to the person isolating them. Not saying this is what she is doing but still she needs lose some the attitude...

I've noticed Yuu seems have a thing for playing with Touko's hair...

I almost wish the sis had come in and seen them if it hadn't been such a serious scene. Maybe finally give Yuu someone to talk to about things.

last edited at May 4, 2017 10:52AM

Only thing can really guess on at this point is no matter how you look at it at least one person is likely gonna come out hurt by this of the three girls. I just truly hope it isn't Yuu.

For the love of God, the one thing I truly hope for by the end of this manga is that Yuu will be very VERY HAPPY. She's such an angel for putting up with Touko for so long. Her monologue at the end of the latest chapter was great "I want Nanami-senpai to not hate herself. I don't know if this is pride. I don't know if senpai herself doesn't wish for it. I don't even know if this is simply my own selfishness. Even so, I want to change that person." Like Natsuki said in chapter 19, for Yuu to be so fixated on doing something is such a big change from who she used to be. She's not just going along with what others ask her to do anymore and definitely not even Touko at this point. & I hope things will eventually work out for her, so we can finally get to see this girl smiling genuinely and happily and not feeling lonely and distant for once. JUSTICE FOR YUU.

Thinking about it them becoming more balance and going back and forth on their roles if they have a normal relationship does sound like the most likely outcome if Touko just gets over her issues.

This will not be easy for sure. I actually have my doubts that Yuu's plan will work out smoothly. We'll see next volume...

Dear god I just hope this doesn't become a tragic story. I don't think anyone could handle that.

This. Definitely.

Well if 4s has vanished at least we are almost guaranteed to have a english release of un translated chapters at some point in one form or another. It will just really suck having wait for who knows how long. (I'm still waiting for someone to pick back up Kanamemo and finish off the last half of that. Though unlike this there is a low chance of that happening sadly.

I'm not a fan of the 7seas releases, but I was gonna buy all of YagaKimi volumes anyway. Since vol. 2 & 3 are all coming out within this year, we'll get this chapter and the later ones next year... I really don't like waiting that long, but at least we'll get something eventually. As long as this series doesn't get cancelled, there is hope.

Well the first english volume release is the best seller on amazon in the yuri/yaoi categories. So if it is liked anywhere near as much in Japan as it is here baring the magazine it being published in shutting down or somethign happening to the author it being canceled is slim. I .. I.. dunno if I could handle waiting a year to be able read the next chapter... It;s weird, In a way I want see the manga end but not that I want it over I just really want to see what the final outcome will be. First time I think I ever wanted to get to the end of a manga like that. Does 4S actually have a website or something? I always just assumed it was just one person doing it because they wanted to and not a group/dedicated scanner of any kind.

One thing I never got is at the beginning of the series Yamada is portrayed as being dumb/slow and plain.

Wasn't a lot of that her own words, a product of her own low self esteem? Granted her friend said something along those lines but her friend was kind of tactless.

Na the other classmates kind of treated her like that as well. Like with the stopwatch and somewhat at karaoke. Though ya a lot is also her own low self opinion.

I started the top-bottom discussion as more of a joke, but I guess we're really getting into it lol

I can't wait to see a proper confession from both sides by the end of this manga (again, assuming this is not a tragic romance)

Ya it is a bit silly but interesting with this being such a good story. Of course unlike a lot of stories you can't really see a most likely outcome/ending with this one leaving a lot of room for discussion. Only thing can really guess on at this point is no matter how you look at it at least one person is likely gonna come out hurt by this of the three girls. I just truly hope it isn't Yuu. I mean she started this out having no interest in it and just going along with things. She eventually has been made to have feelings and it would be criminal if she is the one who ends up left behind in the end after all that.

Thinking about it them becoming more balance and going back and forth on their roles if they have a normal relationship does sound like the most likely outcome if Touko just gets over her issues.

Dear god I just hope this doesn't become a tragic story. I don't think anyone could handle that.

Well if 4s has vanished at least we are almost guaranteed to have a english release of un translated chapters at some point in one form or another. It will just really suck having wait for who knows how long. (I'm still waiting for someone to pick back up Kanamemo and finish off the last half of that. Though unlike this there is a low chance of that happening sadly.)

last edited at May 3, 2017 6:28PM

I do think Touko would still probably take the lead in some areas like being more sexually aggressive and initiating more physical contact and just trying get Yuu to do things in general.

Yeah, this was what I meant. Touko is too horny to be the bottom. Unless coming to term with herself somehow makes her less horny, I don't see Yuu topping her.

On a side note, seems like we have been 4saken. Time to learn Japanese everyone.

Naa just being the more horny one or one seeking more physical intimacy/contact doesn't mean they are top. It just means they are the one seeking/craving more attention from the other. That itself can already be seen as a more bottom role. Touko has already shown herself the more needy one wanting to seek comfort from Yuu and attention from her. Not to mention doing things just so she could be near her or see her even just for a moment like showing up at Yuus family bookstore to give Yuu a gift as a excuse to see her or meeting Yuu at her classroom. If Touko gives up on acting strong and always having be confident and perfect you would probably see Yuu naturally taking more of a lead in a actual relationship between them. In some ways Yuu is the more mature and level headed of the two and doesn't get overly excited generally. Touko underneath her act is far more childish, impulsive, and excitable than Yuu. Like during the election where she literally jumped on Yuu's back hugging her. The manga Umi no Misaki has a character that is almost identical to Touko who feels they need keep up a image of what she thinks people expect of her. In her case also the image she portrays and her real personality are markedly different just like Touko. They both have far more needy and childish sides that they try to hide.

As far as the forsaken thing 4s doesn't have a set release date but instead a pretty wide range of the days they actually release a translation going past the current date. Assuming there wasn't actually something said by them.

^ Y'know, I always see Yuu as the bottom. I mean, I love it when she teases the heck out of Touko (when will we get to see more of this again? ; . ;), but I don't see her topping Touko. Could be wrong. Tho I wouldn't mind being wrong...

I dunno, You have remember Touko is a very insecure person pretending to be confident. While Yuu is more stoic and unfazed by things while at the same time being blunt,caring, stubborn, and more likely to take action. Unfortunately she is having to really hold herself back and you see her stop herself several times because of the way Touko is right now. If Touko let go of the facade and was more her true self I could see Yuu becoming far more aggressive with her behavior. I do think Touko would still probably take the lead in some areas like being more sexually aggressive and initiating more physical contact and just trying get Yuu to do things in general.

I'd actually like to see Yamada mature in college. I can see her feeling a bit inadequate when using Kase-san as a yardstick, since she's smokin'! But she's studying something she loves, receiving support from that outstanding woman, and presumably making friends with other students who share her interests, rather than the fairly random assortment of people you find in high school.

Kase knows how pretty Yamada can be.

I actually think Yamada has matured alot since the start of the series. Things that would make her a wreck at the start she handles in stride and accepts now. She stood up to her parents about wanting go to college in tokyo. She did the move completely on her own where before she was kind of helpless without her friend. Plus she just carries herself in a more confident/calm matter in the last couple chapters. She still has issues and a childish side but she has definatly matured.

One thing I never got is at the beginning of the series Yamada is portrayed as being dumb/slow and plain. But in reality she is smart enough to get into a good college. She has a rather good body with curves. Top it off she is fashion oriented with good fashion sense and likes to dress up when out of her school uniform. Hell she even has a thing for wearing fancy and lacey underwear.

So we have a fluffy food manga with a yuri love triangle where the main love interest is completely clueless about it. That has got be a first.

I've been seeing art for this a lot recently.... and it's super cute. I must find out more about this anime!

There is a full manga also that been recently translated. Though it is different characters and community. It is believed to be a prequel to the anime. There is also one that just started getting translated that is during the anime.

Has Kase's height ever been explicitly stated? I keep thinking she's "tall" in a western sense but then I remember this is Japan.

It is really hard to tell Asian women's height in manga especially if you are a westerner. For instance look at Hori in Horimiya. In the manga she actually looks like she is rather tall like around 5'6 but she is actually only 5'3. There is a trend to have the MC girl in a romance be short especially if they are on the shy side and Yamada seems fit in this stereotype. So I'd guess Kase is around 5'7-5'8 as I think she stands around as tall as a lot of the boys in the series.

I'm not sure about "using" a friend, even gay, even if you can trust him.

With a sperm bank, I guess the donor would not be involved at all, but then can lay no claim to the kid.

With a friend, things could turn complicated for a variety of reasons.

It is actually a really bad idea to be a sperm donor outside of official channels like a sperm bank. If you have a falling out or with the mother or she falls on hard times or for any reason she can come after you for child support and other things. Even if she doesn't personally the state could force it themselves if she applies for any kind of financial services through it. It has happen before. Even if you make a contract between the parents that she won't that still has a chance of being voided in court.

last edited at Apr 17, 2017 7:43PM

Dunno if it is just me who is seeing this but for some reason it is doing somethign weird with the font size and formatting that I don't know how to fix.

It's because you have spaces after the > symbol

I am a little confused though, were you quoting someone originally or is this all your own words?

Ok that fixed it thanks. Weird though there was no symbol. It is my own words.

After reading these latest batch of comments I had to sign up to the site to say something.

The thing people don't seem to be getting is they have had a physical relationship for a long time. They might not have gone all the way till now but they have certainly done more than just plain kissing. Not counting the time in her bedroom there is the time on the school roof in ch 15 what happens after the bedroom chapter. Yui ends up giving Kase a hug holding Kase head against her chest then leading to them doing other stuff where you see Kase taking off her top and leaning over Yui before it cuts away. Another is Yamada's birthday where it ends with the line about doing the thing that Yamada likes but never says specifically what Kase is referring to. This implying it is something more than just kissing. Another thing is Yamada is physically attracted to Kase and she knows it. She has caught herself being transfixed on Kase breast and body more than once. She just isn't as blatantly obvious about it as Kase.

Yamada isn't the same person she was when the manga started. In the year she has been with Kase she has grown as a person. To be blunt she has probably had more life experiences in the time she has been with Kase than she has had for the majority of her life. She has gone from being a wreck just over the idea of Kase having had a gf before her and running away to instead standing up to the girl she thought was Kase ex and accepting it. She has stood up to her parents with her desire of going to school in Tokyo instead of staying home and going to the school her parents told her to. She has graduated high school moved away from her home town and out of her parents home and as it said she did it all on her own. Sure she still has her insecurities and can be a bit childish but along with it is a bit of maturity that she has developed and it shows.

In the end she is in a committed relationship with a girl she is deeply in love with. She is living on her own for the first time and making her own decisions and in her own place with true privacy for the first time. So ya if the mood was feeling right it was time and no reason for her to be freaking out like it is the first time they have ever touched each other as people seem to think.

A lot of these post are sounding like people being upset that they can't deny anymore that they had something besides the so called "pure" relationship that people get hung up on.

Dunno if it is just me who is seeing this but for some reason it is doing somethign weird with the font size and formatting that I don't know how to fix.

last edited at Apr 6, 2017 4:07AM