Literally no comment in this entire thread has actually effectively justified their belief that being uncomfortable with this manga is unjustified. The line between bullying/harassment and teasing is super fine and entirely subjective so it's asinine to try to claim that your particular stance is the right one when there is no right stance it's a matter of personal experience and perspective.

In other words, your discomfort isn't "right". Thanks for admitting it lol

Your circular reasoning aside, I didn't say that people told you what is "correct". They (I guess me included), explained to you why your subjective viewpoint is flawed in context of the work, it's intent and the real life comparisons. All of which you gladly ignored to further your wishy-washy point. Cute.

To make it far easier... if the line between the two was really as thin and uncertain as you say, then authorial intent is the thing that shows you which direction it actually goes. If you truly believe it could go either way (something you didn't actually claim in your original comments) then guess what? What the story is actually showing is more accurate than your personal experience infered realistic views.

@majere
It's always alright to voice your discomfort.
It's equally legitimate for people to tell you why your interpretation might be flawed.

last edited at May 10, 2019 3:56PM

That kind of talk (let's not call it objectification for the sake of peace), does kinda make me wonder how some people really see this story.

Do they identify with Sakurako and indeed see this as some sort of "lesbian wish fulfillment story" which would imply Kasumi is the ideal object of interest? Is Sakurako the most likely point of self-insertion?

Or are people more enarmored with the perfect wife level Sakurako has attained so that they actually identify more with Kasumi living in the lesbian married life simulator where they don't have to do anything, because the cute and amazing housewife takes care of them?

I don't tend to pick a viewpoint to follow as my guide through these kinds of stories, so this is kind of fascinating. Certainly never saw this as "wish fulfillment" at least. The empathy to identify with characters is there, but it's still separate from my own desires. I don't want to "be" the characters, I just want to see their lives play out for them. Guess that is why I never joined the "waifu" craze.
[Me x Character] is indeed the worst pairing as a reader. lol

It's even sadder when you remember that these women actually believed they'd go to hell for these letters.

last edited at May 10, 2019 3:32PM

Nunneries were the all-girls schools of the dark ages. lol

last edited at May 10, 2019 3:31PM

It's called empathy and investment. If your story doesn't get those reactions it's no good.

No, it's called emotional over-investment, and the second half of that statement is a decidedly subjective assessment, not an objective one.

Any investment from the readers is a good thing for the writer. And no, that is not subjective. If your story doesn't rouse any empathetic responses or some kind of investment, it failed as a piece of entertainment. You seem a bit cranky, cool down.

last edited at May 10, 2019 3:18PM

Does anyone else feel slightly triggered with the abusive situations in this? I mean, it's ok if MC-chan is a masochist (and it does look that way after this chapter), but otherwise tall-girl-chan's behavior is a huge red flag for abusive jerk. Run, little MC-chan!!

looks at the last few pages
N-no, don't think anyone's thought about that yet.

I didn't read any of your comments but why are people having long convoluted debates about this series? It's a mindless SoL yuri series, anything that happens in this manga is not meant to have any deeper meaning other than 'cute girls doing cute gay things to eachother'

The good old "I don't want to put thought into it, so nobody else should." Classic.

But like portraying it as light-hearted and playful really just makes it worse to me because then the narrative treats it like it's fine and there's nothing really wrong with it. Like, the intention being for it to be perceived as light and playful doesn't magically mean that's how it will be perceived and it doesn't even mean that's how it should be perceived. Authorial intent does not dictate audience interpretation and reaction and I don't think it should.

In this particular case however, intention makes the deciding difference. This scenario can both be just a punchline or a creepy boundary break. Clearly the chapter portrayed it as the former and you shouldn't get hung up on it, because of that.

If Koguma had seriously been creeped out or disgusted, if Hino had any ill intentions, that would be different. But in truth she just flipped her skirt while she slept and then teased her. It's not even anything too outlandish, you'd see that between friends in real life even (minus the lap pillow).

I'd equate this to someone drawing on your face with marker while you sleep.

Nah it'd still be gross and creepy in a different story. If anything it completely undermined and ruined a cute moment.

I suppose the fact that she was sleeping makes it a tad more deplorable, but I have read plenty of stories where a girl flips another's skirt or comments on the color of her panties. When it has a comedic edge it loses its severity. Though it's always better to also give consequences to the offender (a la kick to the face or getting chased down the hallway etc.).

Plato was right, of course—fiction presents all sorts of questionable behavior, and if we assume that stories serve primarily as models for human action, it’s probably best to just ban them all.

Aristotle had a rather different take on the matter, though . . .

I'm by no means one of those people who always say "It's just fiction, so it doesn't matter." In fact I hate that attitude. I care about this story and it's characters, so it does matter to me. Reading stories can and should be taken as seriously as any other hobby that objectively wouldn't matter. If you lose a Badminton match you'd be disappointed in the result, even if it literally doesn't affect the rest of your life. I think that separates something you truly care about from just something to kill time.

Bottom line is, stories do have a margin for questionable behaviour or plot points. What oversteps that line is subjective, but the way a story is portrayed/written makes the real difference. This manga portrays these interactions as light-hearted and playful, so that is the intention.

last edited at May 10, 2019 8:04AM

That lap pillow made me feel sleepy as well. Amazingly comfortable...

“Kyaa—your panties are so cuuute!” “Let me put sunscreen on you—your skin is so smooth!” “Your photo album is so cuuute!” “Look, I made you a dress—c’mon, let’s try it on!!”

I’m sure Koguma will look adorable in it, too.

Until Hino actually forces anything on Koguma I won't even start to worry.

Welp, she just checked out her underwear while she was sleeping so...

And in any other story people would call that funny/cute and applaud her forwardness. Yuri can be such a beautifully double standard riddled genre~

last edited at May 10, 2019 7:35AM

It's amazing to me how people can take fictional work so seriously.

It's called empathy and investment. If your story doesn't get those reactions it's no good.

Saying the wrong thing and hurting a friend's feelings and intentionally needling and embarrassing someone you only sorta know because you enjoy their reactions are not the same situation at all.

I think Hino knows more about Koguma than her friends do at this point. They are like 2 steps away from an actual relationship.

Yes, it ISN'T play which is kinda the source of my iffy feelings when Hino pushes a bit too hard because in play boundaries are clearly defined and everyone involved has a pretty clear idea of what is expected out of a given session. This is haphazard teasing where it's entirely possible for Hino to accidentally step all over Koguma's boundaries and cause actual harm and discomfort and even if we know the author isn't going to have that happen it still puts me on edge because it's an inherently worrying situation. Like this isn't BDSM but the standards of safe, sane, and consensual still totally apply here (and really to all interactions because consent isn't just important in sex).

I mean... I've said some pretty hurtful things to friends before and they did the same to me. Social interactions aren't a controlled environment. Sometimes you go too far, sometimes they are especially sensitive about something. That's how life goes. When you love someone you also perceive many "issues" as not so bad anymore.

Until Hino actually forces anything on Koguma I won't even start to worry. What we have to be aware of is that Koguma takes the active role in all of this. She seeks Hino out, not the other way around.

last edited at May 10, 2019 6:34AM

^Prepare for eternal life.

It's okay to be gay every day.
But don't play gay during a mayday.

It's not that Koguma wants to be molested, she just needs Hino's attention. Suddenly it seems like she didn't care anymore, which is the same as throwing away a convenient toy. Luckily Hino's so deep down the rabbit hole that she probably can't live without Koguma anymore. lol

Sewing is not one of those skills I assumed Hino would have, but I guess never judge a book by its cover~

BugDevil: power exchange needs to be negotiated. safe words exist for a reason. sometimes playful teasing goes too far, and it isn't always easy to tell if someone is enjoying something.

people are debating it here because it hasn't been made explicit. being explicit is what keeps relationships like this healthy. communication is important. instead of hino guessing when she goes too far, she will know for sure.

there have been a couple of panels where i really didn't like the way koguma was drawn. one with her shirt up laying on the ground bothered me. the one Blastaar points out as well.

...okay, but what normal high-school girls use safewords for standard interactions? As I keep saying this isn't some play. She literally just took her three sizes. You have to stop thinking in BDSM terms.

I think people are overreacting here. This is all super tame.

As someone said above, both the oldest and 2nd oldest sisters are probably adopted.

Is this based on some info from the artist or something? Because if it's just because of their looks I have my doubts. Manga designs tend to be all over the place (family members having 3 different rainbow colors for hair is ordinary). It was probably a joke.

Buff goth dad explains a lot about her genes. Though I wonder why her sister looks nothing like the rest of the family.

Himura's cuteness is so powerful it's turning her friend gay as collateral damage.

last edited at May 9, 2019 2:53PM

So it sorta feels like Koguma is being victimized (or about to be) when everything else in the story shows that she's really not.

The power of playing with expectations can never be understated. Though I suppose the more bad things one has seen, the easier it is to be tricked...

Koguma is embarrassed, but she is clearly into it. She can get away whenever she wants, because Hino has never actually forced her into anything. Aside from locking the door (not a big deal when it's locked from the inside and Koguma can easily open it herself) she's not even done anything unusual this time around. Her excuses/tricking Koguma into doing things for her is nothing new.

This doesn't require a "safe word" or any nonsense like that, because this isn't some play. It`s just teasing. Hino compliments her because those are her true feelings. What girl would not get excited when her crush says she is cute and says her body is her type?

BugDevil posted:

Do people really think her nips got erect because of the "binding"? lol
That's a stretch.

It's what Hino san is implying, true or not (like the aphrodisiac thing) that's the idea.

Uh.. no? All she implied is that her nipples got hard. There are literally 10 different explanations for how that might happen, several of which I mentioned above.

last edited at May 9, 2019 11:39AM

Do people really think her nips got erect because of the "binding"? lol
That's a stretch.

Stress, excitement, chafing, temperature changes. There are so many ways the size can increase suddenly.

These are all minor conflicts and hurdles, things that keep the daily slice-of-life interesting.

Heh. I was going to argue that those examples look more like jokes than conflict to me... but you did say that "conflict is whatever you want it to be" and that pretty much precludes discussion, so whatevs.

Well, even if you ignore my generalization, why can a joke not be a conflict too? Most comedy is centered around conflict in fact, mostly based on suffering. Humor often depends on one side having something negative happen to them in some way.

A room for two's conflicts are not dwelled on for long. They are either instantly solved or ignored or stay very lowkey in the background (Like the definition of Sakurako's and Kasumi's relationship. That has been a constant issue for both of them since halfway through the manga).

last edited at May 8, 2019 4:55PM