o no. her ex better fly the fuck away before fucking up aya.

This is so much like when I was with my teacher back in hs. So fckin toxic i need one of those hazmat suits lmao

Agh, that was for five seconds. And then Sei literally threw herself on Aya the first time they met.
I mean, it's not unbelievable why Aya likes her that much and so quick,but the phrase "she is my reason to be alive" is just ridiculous imo.

Also we see that Aya has a problem with socializing and opening up to people, so that makes it even weirder how she suddenly made that stranger her reason to live. I think this needed to be developed way slower, because even though there are reasons why she feels that way, they're not convincing and enough for me.

Like I said, Aya established a friendship through their messaging. They were in daily contact before they met. Though it isn’t stated how long they were messaging before they met, the fact that Aya feels comfortable enough to mention her status as an outcast in school, that she goes to Sei after she threatens to cut her off because she doesn’t want to lose her, and that Sei feels comfortable enough to make that demand, means that there’s been enough time to establish an emotional connection.

Showing all their messaging would have been boring so we got a few pages as a montage to get the gist of things.

Haruki tried approaching Aya a lot, but Aya keeps rejecting her. It's not easy to talk about the fact that she pried on her phone but then discovered a whole other mess. It started out as something smaller,but then she got caught up in a more complicated situation which made it harder to tell the truth. Still, I'm not saying what she did was right, but she is the most likable character of the three for me, so it sucks how the author is making her problematic on purpose so they make sure the readers ship the other two. A kind of logic like Sei is problematic, but Haruki is no angel either, so we might as well ship Aya with Sei since Sei is the main character and we are more familiar with her.

Her reaction to a suggestive photo of her childhood friend in post coital phase sent by her much older lover should have been to protect Aya, regardless of the strain it might put on their friendship, yet instead she pushes herself unto Aya.

Her friend could have a sex tape but she’s more worried about why Aya did that with Kuro and not her.

Though I understand why she did all those things. I get her feelings and her motivations. She’s realizing that her concern is actually jealousy. And suddenly experiencing her own sexual awakening and the fact that she’s been in love with Aya... that she’s been the only person there for Aya yet she wasn’t enough and Aya went to look for someone else.

I get Haruki, Sei, Aya, and even Mochida.

The author pretty much made all the characters problematic, not necessarily because they want Sei and Aya to end up together, (I would not be surprised if Aya ends up single because there’s also that coming of age element to this) but because that’s pretty much the formula for a romantic drama.

All the characters are messed up and make bad decisions. They are given back stories to explain their trauma to give insight on their motivations.

Usually, no one has the right to stand on the pedestal of moral high ground.

Yet all are still within the realm of redeemable.

Except for Yoru but that might change if we get a back story from her POV.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 12:40AM

Their toxic relationship must be making me a sick person because I ship Aya and Sei :O I want them to progress for some reason in a positive light. Is it just me? God don’t let it just be me. My Yuri Heart can’t take the toxicity but I digress.

Yoru joins the fray ... Everyone hated that decision.
Haruki still taking a hike ... Loading.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 1:31AM

This is fucked up T•T

Like I said, Aya established a friendship through their messaging. They were in daily contact before they met. Though it isn’t stated how long they were messaging before they met, the fact that Aya feels comfortable enough to mention her status as an outcast in school, that she goes to Sei after she threatens to cut her off because she doesn’t want to lose her, and that Sei feels comfortable enough to make that demand, means that there’s been enough time to establish an emotional connection.

"they were in daily contact" yeah for like a week? Maybe a month tops? It's easier to confide to a stranger on the internet sometimes rather than a person you know irl. You can't really count their brief internet interaction as a deep bonding. They were just getting to know each other. I've seen comments on the internet of people talking about their issues with strangers(like on YouTube comments). It really doesn't mean much. And learning about Sei's work doesn't need a lot of interaction either. She literally states her occupation in her dating profile, so it would be one of the first topics of conversation to come up.

I get if you like their "relationship". It's more subjective. But they don't know each other for a long time, especially long enough time for Aya to feel like her only purpose in life is Sei.

Can we not get more yuri Manga where one of the characters is in in love with their BFF while their BFF is having a fucked up relationship with someone else?

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 3:51AM

kinda reminds me of a sorta lesbian scum's wish typa dealio

"they were in daily contact" yeah for like a week? Maybe a month tops? It's easier to confide to a stranger on the internet sometimes rather than a person you know irl. You can't really count their brief internet interaction as a deep bonding. They were just getting to know each other. I've seen comments on the internet of people talking about their issues with strangers(like on YouTube comments). It really doesn't mean much. And learning about Sei's work doesn't need a lot of interaction either. She literally states her occupation in her dating profile, so it would be one of the first topics of conversation to come up.

The fact that she could talk to Sei without awkwardness and reservation meant a great deal to Aya. She felt someone out there cared enough to message her every day. It seems like it’s not a big deal to some but for Aya who had a desperate need for connection, this was enough to establish a bond.

People can feel strong connections others through the internet. Many people, older and more experienced than a girl like Aya, are scammed copious amounts of money by significant others they meet through social media, people that they’ve never met irl nor even video chatted with.

It all depends on the person, their level of susceptibility, how in need of attention/company they are.

I get if you like their "relationship". It's more subjective. But they don't know each other for a long time, especially long enough time for Aya to feel like her only purpose in life is Sei.

Regardless of whether or not I like their relationship, it’s impossible to quantify how long it would take to create a strong emotional bond with someone.

Logic and emotion often don’t coincide.

There is such a thing as whirlwind romance. People get married after meeting for just a week. People claiming love at first sight or knowing they were going to marry their significant other just after one date. There’s a dating show on Netflix called Love is Blind where people go on dates and have like 5 days to decide whether or not they propose to someone....

Aya’s a lonely teen with nothing but schoolwork and a sociable childhood friend. Her parents are never home and she’s mostly left to her own devices.

Sei brought forth all these new things for Aya; comfort, mystery, curiosity, pleasure, pain, etc. So it’s only natural for Aya to believe that everything she associates with Sei, the sex filled dramatic life she’s currently living, will be gone the minute Sei leaves.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 5:55AM

The fact that she could talk to Sei without awkwardness and reservation meant a great deal to Aya. She felt someone out there cared enough to message her every day. It seems like it’s not a big deal to some but for Aya who had a desperate need for connection, this was enough to establish a bond.

Yeah I would get that if she absolutely had no one else. Let's say someone like Kaoru from MUL who really doesn't have anyone else.
What's very contradictory is how we've seen Haruki trying to approach her and Aya was rejecting her. It's not like she had no other person in the world to talk to, she was just very aloof and distant with them on her own. So I can't believe that she suddenly felt so familiar with someone she barely knows. And even if it was the teen hormones etc(I'm not saying she shouldn't feel anything at all), it's a great stretch that someone like her would go into these type of lengths for someone so fast. She reminds me of Mei from Citrus regarding her aloof side, but even if I have criticized it, I think it did a better job in depicting someone with this type of personality and the time it takes for them to feel strongly about someone.
I don't think it's impossible for someone to feel like she did, but you need a different personality for that. They have to be more open and company seeking in general. Not someone who avoids human interaction like Aya.

There is such a thing as whirlwind romance. People get married after meeting for just a week. People claiming love at first sight or knowing they were going to marry their significant other just after one date. There’s a dating show on Netflix called Love is Blind where people go on dates and have like 5 days to decide whether or not they propose to someone....

Oh yes there is, and then they divorce/break up just as fast as they fell for each other. Or in these shows that you mentioned. You honestly take them seriously? Most of them are staged, and the couples there barely last.

In this manga, someone might like them as a couple for various reasons. Their story is interesting and the art is pretty good. So it attracts readers and then you can bend the possibilities and go with the exception of the exception and believe this is a very strong love. It's not completely impossible. But I'm reading this with the most common and possible situation irl.
Although I'm sure there will be a happy ending.

So.. I came here just to say.. this chapter just made go "omfg this is so fucking goood" and that I felt that Sei is only one that is really toxic here as she's taking advantage of Aya's naivety and the fact that Sei is way older and a teacher as well... but it is one of the reasons why I like to read it as well as I want to see where it goes and I am not really in the who's more toxic and who I want them to end up with. It'd be boring if Aya ends up with Haruki tbh.. and for this chapter I am really glad that Sei called out to Aya for the first time when they're having sex ... that was so wow and the fact that Aya is finally realizing her own desire and etc.

My two cents here. Don't worry, I won't spoil anything after chapter 10.

From what I can tell, Haruki doesn't really even treat Aya as a real friend. She never really did care about Aya's opinions on anything and treats her like some kind of baby with no agency and will of her own. When Aya made an "online friend," Haruki didn't even bother asking Aya's feelings on the matter and immediately proceeded to invade her privacy. Also, as Sei pointed out in chapter 9, the reason why Haruki stormed the cafe was not because she cared about Aya's well-being. It was because she couldn't have Aya for herself. Haruki is overly self-righteous, and like most self-righteous people, a massive hypocrite. It makes her an interesting character, but make no mistake, she's no better, and maybe even "worse" than any of the other characters in this story.

As for Aya and Sei, it has been revealed, piecemeal it might have been, that Aya doesn't have any meaningful relationships. Her parents are absentees, and she feels that her childhood friend neighbor is robbing her of her freedom and privacy. Sei, meanwhile, actually makes an effort to treat Aya as an equal (emotionally speaking). While you can see it as Sei trying to get Aya to lower her guard, I genuinely don't think so. Sei is also lonely, suffocated by her horrible work environment and her attachment to a past relationship. Aya's the first person, maybe in a very long time, that she can be open to about her troubles, and that actually makes Sei very, very attached to Aya, even if she calls out Yoru's name during sex. She gave Aya a key to her apartment, bought dishes for her to use, took her to karaoke, etc. While those may seem unimportant, those are the things that Aya longed for - a meaningful relationship. To Aya, Sei is everything, and I can understand why.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

EDIT: This is kind of lost in translation, but Sei sometimes regresses to the speech pattern of a little girl whenever she and Aya does the dirty. As the translator, it's really hard to get those nuances carried over to English. This is also the reason why I believe that Sei is much, much more attached to Aya than it seems like when just reading the translations. I'm sorry I couldn't bring these nuances out, but that's pretty much impossible to do without making Sei sound like an idiot.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 9:24AM

You kinda resume the opinion of the spanish community. At least we have someone voicing that.

From what I can tell, Haruki doesn't really even treat Aya as a real friend. She never really did care about Aya's opinions on anything and treats her like some kind of baby with no agency and will of her own. When Aya made an "online friend," Haruki didn't even bother asking Aya's feelings on the matter and immediately proceeded to invade her privacy.

The “Haruki gives zero shits about Aya’s privacy” comes through in the part where she seems to have invited her friends over to watch AYA TV from the window.

A lot of readings of this series seem to dismiss or downplay Aya’s agency. While as an adult Kuro does technically have more power than Aya, nothing Aya does is a result of Kuro using that power—Aya may be making some bad choices, but they’re her choices.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 10:31AM

While those may seem unimportant, those are the things that Aya longed for - a meaningful relationship.

Althought one can say that Sei is just trying to re-do with Aya what she wanted to do with Yoru. Nobody said that subsitute play was just for sex. She might just try to fulfill her past relation with Yoru, with Aya. I've never been that much against Sei beside the whole substitue play, which is frankly not heathly for a relation, even for Aya. Because ultimatly, Sei is just trying to recreate her relation with Yoru and it doesn't help Aya self confidence problem because the person she is going out just "use" her as a substitue and one can argue thatSei doesn't really love the real Aya. If that part is treated and Sei finally see Aya as Aya and not as Yoru then it will be a big step. I still can't forgive the photo post sex send to Haruki in order to taunt her thought, that was pretty stupid move and i don't really understand what she trying to achieve. There is still Aya self confidence problem but that's something one can handle mostly alone. Nobody can really help you to gain confidence, it's something to have to build up through actions and decisions.

Althought one can say that Sei is just trying to re-do with Aya what she wanted to do with Yoru.

Nah, I don't buy that. Even if it was possible that that's how it got started, I highly doubt that Sei has any malicious intentions when she shows Aya these gestures. And that's because of your next point - the photo she sent to Haruki.

I still can't forgive the photo post sex send to Haruki in order to taunt her thought, that was pretty stupid move and i don't really understand what she trying to achieve.

Sei did this to confirm her suspicions about Haruki's motives. She even said so herself - she was "doing an experiment" to see if Haruki really cares about Aya's well-being, or just being jealous. As it turns out, it was the latter. I would definitely say that Sei infinitely cares more about Aya's well-being than Haruki does. Otherwise, she wouldn't be doing all this in the first place. It's self-destructive, and it doesn't benefit Sei in any way, but it does, strangely enough, benefit Aya in the sense that if Haruki reports to the police about it or shows the photo to Aya's mom, Aya will be "freed" from her. Unfortunately, I think Aya doesn't want to be "freed" anymore.

Since when taking someone's nude photo without their permission is ok because she didn't do it for revenge porn, she was just conducting an experiment. With both Haruki and Aya as her lab rats.
Just because there's a reason other than revenge on Aya directly, doesn't make it acceptable...
That's what I don't like about stories like this. They can make you excuse a character's actions because they are the main character.

Haruki cared about Aya since they were kids. We saw the flashback from their childhood and she had her back ever since. Unless she was planning to seduce her ever since they were 6 or something.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 10:42AM

or shows the photo to Aya's mom

Everybody know that parents are always working in mangas, they're never home /s.

I would definitely say that Sei infinitely cares more about Aya's well-being than Haruki

Because Sei need Aya to fulfill Yoru's role so she try to make sure Aya don't leave her like Yoru has done. As for now, she still a bit selfish in how she care for Aya.

Nah, I don't buy that. Even if it was possible that that's how it got started, I highly doubt that Sei has any malicious intentions when she shows Aya these gestures.

It could be inconcously.

Sei did this to confirm her suspicions about Haruki's motives.

Still can't forgive. It's basically the same as NTR where a dude send a picture of a wife aftersex to her husband. That's even worse that she only does it to test Haruki, she could just have ask Haruki to talk but she decide to do it the worse possible. Taunt her with photo, rub it with salt face to face. Just because she was spot on doesn't mean the way she have achieve it is forgivable.Haruki play the moral card in her own right, a teacher sending an aftersex photo of an highschool girl to her friend just to test the friend is not really something you normally do.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 10:55AM

Since when taking someone's nude photo without their permission is ok because she didn't do it for revenge porn, she was just conducting an experiment. With both Haruki and Aya as her lab rats.

And when did I ever mention that it was? I was providing a possible reason for Sei to feel that what she did was justified, not justifying it myself - putting myself in Sei's shoes, so to speak. I've noticed it for a while now, but it seems that you easily get so confrontational when someone doesn't share your opinions. You might want to rein it in a bit. I'm not trying to justify anything. That was your assumption.

Haruki cared about Aya since they were kids. We saw the flashback from their childhood and she had her back ever since. Unless she was planning to seduce her ever since they were 6 or something.

There's no proof that Haruki ever "got Aya's back." Again, that's just your own assumptions speaking. It was one scene that showed that Haruki was kind to Aya, but that single scene doesn't prove anything besides the fact that Haruki just made Aya's self-confidence problems worse, or at least, that's what Aya says herself.

I don't really have a "side" here, so maybe you need to take a chill pill and consider the possibility that not every post here that doesn't agree with you is some type of personal attack, okay?

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 10:59AM

Yeah I would get that if she absolutely had no one else. Let's say someone like Kaoru from MUL who really doesn't have anyone else.
What's very contradictory is how we've seen Haruki trying to approach her and Aya was rejecting her. It's not like she had no other person in the world to talk to, she was just very aloof and distant with them on her own. So I can't believe that she suddenly felt so familiar with someone she barely knows. And even if it was the teen hormones etc(I'm not saying she shouldn't feel anything at all), it's a great stretch that someone like her would go into these type of lengths for someone so fast. She reminds me of Mei from Citrus regarding her aloof side, but even if I have criticized it, I think it did a better job in depicting someone with this type of personality and the time it takes for them to feel strongly about someone.
I don't think it's impossible for someone to feel like she did, but you need a different personality for that. They have to be more open and company seeking in general. Not someone who avoids human interaction like Aya.

Aya has expressed her guilt about just relying on Haruki’s kindness. And like I mentioned before, she knows Haruki isn’t just hers. She has to share Haruki with her classmates and Haruki’s family and from how she regards herself as a gloomy girl, I’m certain a part of her feels she doesn’t want to hold Haruki back. That’s why she gives her her blessing to get a boyfriend.

True they were both lonely and aloof but Aya and Mei are different characters with different motivations.

Mei was detached but was looking to maintain her status quo and had huge responsibilities to maintain her good family name. She had to keep the school in order, get married, become Chairwoman, make her grand dad/dad happy and proud. Yuzu was an uninvited change in her life so their progress came at a different pace.

Aya was seeking. She was hoping for change, invited it even. She’s actively looking for someone to share her stuff with, maybe she and Haruki don’t really have similar interests, so she has things she wants to discuss that maybe Haruki might not know about.

Aya has always felt out of place. She didn’t keep people out because she didn’t want to be around them. For her it’s hard to make a connection irl so she chose to sign up on the dating up, hoping to play around, but as we see she knows a bunch of things can go wrong with her decisions yet she makes them anyway because believes it’s definitely better than what she currently had going on when Sei wasn’t in her life.

It’s not that great of a stretch to believe she would crave something more than her mundane everyday life she had of school related activities, Haruki barging in when Haruki feels like it, and waiting for her parents to come home.

Oh yes there is, and then they divorce/break up just as fast as they fell for each other. Or in these shows that you mentioned. You honestly take them seriously? Most of them are staged, and the couples there barely last.

That’s not the true in all cases. Most, for sure, but definitely not all. There are definite exceptions to the rule. They are the reason that some people still believe whirlwind romances can work out.

I honestly don’t watch dating shows but the Netflix show premise was interesting. Most of the contestants seemed like they were genuinely there to look for love, as opposed to most Bachelor contestants who are looking for their 15 minutes of fame.

Anyway I found it a little bit harder to stage, though I’m sure there were producers tying to influence things on the show and it was edited to show more drama, because couples families are involved and some of them actually got married and they’re all present on forms of social media so we can keep track of what’s going on in their lives....

And I was actually surprised to learn that not just one couple from the Bachelor ended up together- I always thought it was just Tristan and Ryan who have been married for 16 years.

The guidelines for love are different for all people.

True time can play an important role on the development of emotions yet there are couples who have known each other and been together for years yet still break up. Being in a relationship with someone for years isn’t a guarantee to lasting happiness.

Staying in love takes work. Sometimes people just don’t want to put in the effort or sometimes love just fizzles out and even though they’ve been together with someone for years, they still break up.

In this manga, someone might like them as a couple for various reasons. Their story is interesting and the art is pretty good. So it attracts readers and then you can bend the possibilities and go with the exception of the exception and believe this is a very strong love. It's not completely impossible. But I'm reading this with the most common and possible situation irl.

It’s totally fair, expected even, to judge the story based on your experiences and what you know from life.

I try to imagine myself as the character and see things from their perspective rather than basing their actions on what I would or would not do.

I don’t find it hard to believe that a lonely 15 year old would look to the internet to make a friend and then get caught up in a web of sex and drama. Like I said, it all depends on the person, their level of susceptibility, how in need of attention/company they are.

And Aya is depicted as someone looking to break free despite all her social awkwardness.

Although I'm sure there will be a happy ending.

I don’t want to hope for one because I don’t want to raise my expectations.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 11:15AM

Although I'm sure there will be a happy ending.

I don’t want to hope for one because I don’t want to raise my expectations.

That depend on what you consider a good ending.

And when did I ever mention that it was? I was providing a possible reason for Sei to feel that what she did was justified, not justifying it myself - putting myself in Sei's shoes, so to speak. I've noticed it for a while now, but it seems that you easily get so confrontational when someone doesn't share your opinions. You might want to rein it in a bit. I'm not trying to justify anything. That was your assumption.

Well, when you say that Sei didn't do it maliciously but rather she did it to confirm her suspicions, it does sound like you're partially excusing it. Despite that fact, I didn't quote your post specifically because I don't know your stance anyway, so I took this post as an opportunity to mention the phenomenon of people excusing the shady actions of a character because the manga itself is excusing them. It wasn't meant for you directly.

I don't intend on being confrontational, maybe I have discussions with people I disagree with more often when I could just say nothing. But that's what also creates a discussion.
I just think that the other side isn't heard often. So for example, in a yaoi manga called warehouse, the "love interest" straight up rapes the guy, but because he also loves him and takes care of him the fandom ships them.

I think stories like this(Yuri here) are interesting regardless, but also we should point out when abusive relationships get romanticized.

I don’t want to hope for one because I don’t want to raise my expectations.

That depend on what you consider a good ending

I straight up think they will end up together and Sei will "be fixed" lol. Could totally be wrong though.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 11:39AM

My two cents here. Don't worry, I won't spoil anything after chapter 10.

From what I can tell, Haruki doesn't really even treat Aya as a real friend. She never really did care about Aya's opinions on anything and treats her like some kind of baby with no agency and will of her own. When Aya made an "online friend," Haruki didn't even bother asking Aya's feelings on the matter and immediately proceeded to invade her privacy. Also, as Sei pointed out in chapter 9, the reason why Haruki stormed the cafe was not because she cared about Aya's well-being. It was because she couldn't have Aya for herself. Haruki is overly self-righteous, and like most self-righteous people, a massive hypocrite. It makes her an interesting character, but make no mistake, she's no better, and maybe even "worse" than any of the other characters in this story.

Exactly! She never once asked Aya how she feels, if she was happy, just asserted that the whole thing was not right to her, and that she won’t be able to take it if Aya got a boyfriend.

That whole conversation was focused on Haruki’s feelings.

I see how her actions could be worse because unlike when Sei assaulted Aya, Haruki and Aya already had years of friendship between them. Her effectively trying to trample that line without Aya’s consent demonstrates how little she actually cares about Aya’s feelings.

As for Aya and Sei, it has been revealed, piecemeal it might have been, that Aya doesn't have any meaningful relationships. Her parents are absentees, and she feels that her childhood friend neighbor is robbing her of her freedom and privacy. Sei, meanwhile, actually makes an effort to treat Aya as an equal (emotionally speaking). While you can see it as Sei trying to get Aya to lower her guard, I genuinely don't think so. Sei is also lonely, suffocated by her horrible work environment and her attachment to a past relationship. Aya's the first person, maybe in a very long time, that she can be open to about her troubles, and that actually makes Sei very, very attached to Aya, even if she calls out Yoru's name during sex. She gave Aya a key to her apartment, bought dishes for her to use, took her to karaoke, etc. While those may seem unimportant, those are the things that Aya longed for - a meaningful relationship. To Aya, Sei is everything, and I can understand why.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

The fact that she has begun to moan Aya’s name and her offering that Aya stay means she definitely has formed some sort of attachment with Aya. It’s just her connection to Sei and her past trauma is so strong that it’s easily overpowering said connection with Aya.

Sei brought forth all the things Aya’s been craving so it’s easy to see how Aya would be attached. And since she did not have a lot going on before Sei, it’s understandable how Sei became the focal point in her life.

EDIT: This is kind of lost in translation, but Sei sometimes regresses to the speech pattern of a little girl whenever she and Aya does the dirty. As the translator, it's really hard to get those nuances carried over to English. This is also the reason why I believe that Sei is much, much more attached to Aya than it seems like when just reading the translations. I'm sorry I couldn't bring these nuances out, but that's pretty much impossible to do without making Sei sound like an idiot.

Translations are hard. Certain words in another language don’t have the same weight when translated.

Thanks for your efforts!

The “Haruki gives zero shits about Aya’s privacy” comes through in the part where she seems to have invited her friends over to watch AYA TV from the window.

I know right? She didn’t tell Aya to close her window or anything.

A lot of readings of this series seem to dismiss or downplay Aya’s agency. While as an adult Kuro does technically have more power than Aya, nothing Aya does is a result of Kuro using that power—Aya may be making some bad choices, but they’re her choices.

Her choices are definitely her own. It seems people gloss over the fact that she knows exactly what’s going on between her and Sei. Sei never promised her a real relationship and Aya herself proposes that Sei call out Yoru’s name instead of her own.

She does it, not because she wants to help Sei deal with whatever past traumas she has, but because she wants to maintain boundaries and remind herself that she must try and detach herself from Sei as much as she can.