I just like to pretend that Izetta never did what she did and saved Fine and her people and they lived happily ever after together for the next 70+ years. ;_;
Cannibal
Dec 8, 2017 12:51PM
@cameron I think you skipped over the last few minutes of the show...
UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
Dec 8, 2017 2:05PM
@Cannibal No, they did not. That last scene is set in the immediate aftermath of the finale, not decades later.
In the show it is clearly and unambiguously stated that using the crystal shortens the lifespan of the user. It is why Fine is so opposed to Izetta using it. The more you use it, and the more power you release through it, the worse the effect is. Both Sophie and Izetta are aware of this, the former is just so hell-bent on revenge she does not give a fuck, while the latter would do anything to protect Fine.
It is this life-draining effect of the crystal that kills Sophie, and no, Izetta did not manage to magically avoid the effect. Sophie just had the disadvantage of using the stone longer, thus she had less to go on. She died when she desperately tried to match the magical output Izetta produced in that last part of their duel, the ludicrous amount of power she was trying to crystallise sucked her dry. Izetta survived only because she did not use the stone as long as her enemy, and thus had more to go on. But considering the level of usage in that last move, she probably drained most of her life force.
In short, no, they most certainly did not live happily ever after for the next 70+ years.
last edited at Dec 8, 2017 2:07PM
lord-of-roses
Dec 8, 2017 8:35PM
I'm gonna have to be that guy, aren't I? FIne...
T H I C C
Cannibal
Dec 9, 2017 11:13AM
@UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins No, it's set several years later. Not immediately after.
The theory that the crystal shortens your life is just that, a theory. They don't have any evidence that it shortens your life, only that it's painful to use. But wasn't painful enough to discourage a romantic magical broom ride.
You have no idea that Sophie was actually even killed. She just falls after failing to match Izetta's spirit bomb. Not once do we get a confirmation of her death, especially whether or not it was the crystal's life draining that caused it. You also forget that Sophie was literally just a clone that was set to have a short life span anyways. The original Sophie used the stone much longer than the clone and Izetta and lived for decades until she was betrayed and executed.
So in short, yall don't know what actually happened.
Artemis
Dec 9, 2017 12:21PM
I like to think of it as witches have a longer lifespan than humans to begin with, so the stone cutting Izetta's life short means she'll live just as long as Finé
cameron
Dec 10, 2017 7:21AM
Well... in my headcanon Izetta and Fine have lived together forever making lots of love and going on lots of lovey dovey broomrides together.
rincewind
Dec 11, 2017 7:23AM
Tsk, tsk, it's pretty obvious what happens in the end.
Witches using the crystals get their lifespan shortened, because it uses their lifeforce instead of mana.
But Izetta has an alternative power source, she used her massive gayness to fuel it, something that Sophie lacks, and that's why she failed in life. So, Izetta will be fine, she has enough gayness to spare.
UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
Dec 21, 2017 11:36PM
@Cannibal Lol, I knew what your response would be, so I stayed away from this thread until I mustered the energy (do not take this the wrong way, I like doing this, but it is exhausting). Well, here we go, I guess.
The theory that the crystal shortens your life is just that, a theory. They don't have any evidence that it shortens your life, only that it's painful to use.
"To win the battle, she stole a stone of power that the first witch had: the Magic Stone. It devours the life of a witch to overturn the laws of power." (Izetta's grandmother, in a memory, talking about the first Sophie, in episode 10.)
"The White Witch, the real Sophie, once said that the Magic Stone draws out the power of the witch by shortening their life. If you use it too much, you won't have long to live." (Said by Müller to Izetta, based on the diary written by his ancestors who were members of the court in Sophie's time, and were involved in the plot against her, episode 11.)
"If she crystallises all that magic at once, she'll die for sure." (Sophie's internal monologue, episode 12. This also indicates it is not just the duration of the usage, but the intensity as well, that drains the life from the user.)
You have no idea that Sophie was actually even killed. She just falls after failing to match Izetta's spirit bomb. Not once do we get a confirmation of her death, especially whether or not it was the crystal's life draining that caused it.
She unambiguously thought Izetta's move was suicidal, and given what we know about the Stone, this is indeed correct. Nevertheless, she tried to match it, given all the factors (nature of the Stone, the suicidal levels of energy being used, her previous usage of the Stone, and her cloned body (no, I did not forget her body was deteriorating more rapidly on account of the cloning)), the scene of her losing hold of her magic, her staff, and her falling down with that drained look on her face, can only be interpreted as her dying.
The only way you can take it as anything else is if you disregard several canon facts, and look at the scene with selective obliviousness. Not to mention the fall alone from that height (and they were above open water, in the middle of the North Sea, at that) would have killed her.
She only could have survived if, as I said, we disregard canon information, and then assume Izetta swooped in and caught her before she hit the surface (and just to be clear, I am not talking about drowning here, a fall from that height would be the same as hitting concrete pavement), and that is quite a scene to be completely left out and never mentioned in any way, shape, or form. Your argument is almost primary school level of 'not dead, we have not seen it'.
The state of her cloned body was a factor that made her weaker than Izetta, and quickened her demise, but it was the life-draining effect of the stone that killed her (again, given the above quotes, I really do not see another way to interpret this).
The original Sophie used the stone much longer than the clone and Izetta and lived for decades until she was betrayed and executed.
Now, this is actual, pure conjecture on your part. We are only told Sophie saved Eylstadt in a single war (and only one battle was actually mentioned), so we have no idea how long or how much she actually used the stone. Plus, those were medieval times. It stands to reason you do not need an awful lot of energy (again, levels of usage also play a part) to overpower mobs of barely armed serfs and a few hundred professional soldiers and knights (as was the standard for armies of the period), as opposed to going against tanks and fighter planes armed with rapid-firing cannons.
We also have no idea whatsoever how long Sophie lived before being betrayed, so I have no idea where did you pull these "decades" from. She still looked young when they seized her, plus, the whole reason for the betrayal in the first place was the Vatican, and the Inquisition. It is highly unlikely she would be allowed to live for decades in those times. Eylstadt would have been invaded into oblivion, as a heretic country, which was exactly the point King Matthias brought up when he signed off on the plot (episode 12).
No, it's set several years later. Not immediately after.
I was wrong on this one, I will grant you. Several years (and it could not have been more, given how young Lotte still is in that last scene) are still not the same as decades, though, so my original point stands.
Now, I understand why people do not like all of this, but still, the only way you can give Izetta and Fine a happily-ever-after for a long, long time is if you deliberately disregard canon information. There is just no way around this. And the thing is, Fine knows this. Remember the scene after the broomride, when they were on that mountaintop (episode 12)?
F: "What? But that magic stone eats away at your life, right? If you do that..."
I: "It'll be fine."
F: "You're lying. I can tell right away when you're lying! Especially when you're lying because you're about to do something crazy for me."
I:"I'm sorry. It's true that I might die. But there's something I want enough to do it anyway. A world where everyone can choose their tomorrow. A world where you can smile. Morecheesystuffbutfortheloveofgodsmyfingersaretired.
So give me the order to fight as your witch, Archduchess, no, Fine... And to end it all."
F: "No!"
I: "I've given it a lot of thought, but I couldn't think of anything else. So..."
F: "Izetta... Izetta... My witch... I order you... you..."
And the scene cuts to Fine breaking down and yelling at the representatives of the warring powers, and from her grief it is obvious she does not expect Izetta to make it back.
Nezchan
Dec 21, 2017 11:48PM
Christ, can we not have yet another discussion that's duelling walls of text? I'd rather this not turn into another Yuzumori-san discussion if both of you don't mind.
UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
Dec 21, 2017 11:57PM
Lol, I said all that I possibly could on the subject, Nez. Whether he accepts my arguments, or tries to go for an alternative interpretation, is entirely up to him, but in either of those two cases, I have pretty much nothing else to say about it. Also, the subject here is nothing like the train-wreck in the Yuzumori thread, in which I had no part whatsoever, so, eh... quick on the draw these days, I guess.
grinseb
Jan 5, 2018 1:27PM
I just watch 1 ep of this series then went here for fanarts cuz i couldn't keep calm... And now I feel like I'm going to torture myself again lolll
souleater Dec 8, 2017 12:24AM
oh damn ..
REDflame23 Dec 8, 2017 12:32AM
Of course...
UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins Dec 8, 2017 3:33AM
Jin-flavoured Izetta, nice, nice~
cameron Dec 8, 2017 6:14AM
I just like to pretend that Izetta never did what she did and saved Fine and her people and they lived happily ever after together for the next 70+ years. ;_;
Cannibal Dec 8, 2017 12:51PM
@cameron I think you skipped over the last few minutes of the show...
UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins Dec 8, 2017 2:05PM
@Cannibal No, they did not. That last scene is set in the immediate aftermath of the finale, not decades later.
In the show it is clearly and unambiguously stated that using the crystal shortens the lifespan of the user. It is why Fine is so opposed to Izetta using it. The more you use it, and the more power you release through it, the worse the effect is. Both Sophie and Izetta are aware of this, the former is just so hell-bent on revenge she does not give a fuck, while the latter would do anything to protect Fine.
It is this life-draining effect of the crystal that kills Sophie, and no, Izetta did not manage to magically avoid the effect. Sophie just had the disadvantage of using the stone longer, thus she had less to go on. She died when she desperately tried to match the magical output Izetta produced in that last part of their duel, the ludicrous amount of power she was trying to crystallise sucked her dry. Izetta survived only because she did not use the stone as long as her enemy, and thus had more to go on. But considering the level of usage in that last move, she probably drained most of her life force.
In short, no, they most certainly did not live happily ever after for the next 70+ years.
last edited at Dec 8, 2017 2:07PM
lord-of-roses Dec 8, 2017 8:35PM
I'm gonna have to be that guy, aren't I? FIne...
T H I C C
Cannibal Dec 9, 2017 11:13AM
@UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins No, it's set several years later. Not immediately after.
The theory that the crystal shortens your life is just that, a theory. They don't have any evidence that it shortens your life, only that it's painful to use. But wasn't painful enough to discourage a romantic magical broom ride.
You have no idea that Sophie was actually even killed. She just falls after failing to match Izetta's spirit bomb. Not once do we get a confirmation of her death, especially whether or not it was the crystal's life draining that caused it. You also forget that Sophie was literally just a clone that was set to have a short life span anyways. The original Sophie used the stone much longer than the clone and Izetta and lived for decades until she was betrayed and executed.
So in short, yall don't know what actually happened.
Artemis Dec 9, 2017 12:21PM
I like to think of it as witches have a longer lifespan than humans to begin with, so the stone cutting Izetta's life short means she'll live just as long as Finé
cameron Dec 10, 2017 7:21AM
Well... in my headcanon Izetta and Fine have lived together forever making lots of love and going on lots of lovey dovey broomrides together.
rincewind Dec 11, 2017 7:23AM
Tsk, tsk, it's pretty obvious what happens in the end.
Witches using the crystals get their lifespan shortened, because it uses their lifeforce instead of mana.
But Izetta has an alternative power source, she used her massive gayness to fuel it, something that Sophie lacks, and that's why she failed in life. So, Izetta will be fine, she has enough gayness to spare.
UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins Dec 21, 2017 11:36PM
@Cannibal Lol, I knew what your response would be, so I stayed away from this thread until I mustered the energy (do not take this the wrong way, I like doing this, but it is exhausting). Well, here we go, I guess.
"To win the battle, she stole a stone of power that the first witch had: the Magic Stone. It devours the life of a witch to overturn the laws of power." (Izetta's grandmother, in a memory, talking about the first Sophie, in episode 10.)
"The White Witch, the real Sophie, once said that the Magic Stone draws out the power of the witch by shortening their life. If you use it too much, you won't have long to live." (Said by Müller to Izetta, based on the diary written by his ancestors who were members of the court in Sophie's time, and were involved in the plot against her, episode 11.)
"If she crystallises all that magic at once, she'll die for sure." (Sophie's internal monologue, episode 12. This also indicates it is not just the duration of the usage, but the intensity as well, that drains the life from the user.)
She unambiguously thought Izetta's move was suicidal, and given what we know about the Stone, this is indeed correct. Nevertheless, she tried to match it, given all the factors (nature of the Stone, the suicidal levels of energy being used, her previous usage of the Stone, and her cloned body (no, I did not forget her body was deteriorating more rapidly on account of the cloning)), the scene of her losing hold of her magic, her staff, and her falling down with that drained look on her face, can only be interpreted as her dying.
The only way you can take it as anything else is if you disregard several canon facts, and look at the scene with selective obliviousness. Not to mention the fall alone from that height (and they were above open water, in the middle of the North Sea, at that) would have killed her.
She only could have survived if, as I said, we disregard canon information, and then assume Izetta swooped in and caught her before she hit the surface (and just to be clear, I am not talking about drowning here, a fall from that height would be the same as hitting concrete pavement), and that is quite a scene to be completely left out and never mentioned in any way, shape, or form. Your argument is almost primary school level of 'not dead, we have not seen it'.
The state of her cloned body was a factor that made her weaker than Izetta, and quickened her demise, but it was the life-draining effect of the stone that killed her (again, given the above quotes, I really do not see another way to interpret this).
Now, this is actual, pure conjecture on your part. We are only told Sophie saved Eylstadt in a single war (and only one battle was actually mentioned), so we have no idea how long or how much she actually used the stone. Plus, those were medieval times. It stands to reason you do not need an awful lot of energy (again, levels of usage also play a part) to overpower mobs of barely armed serfs and a few hundred professional soldiers and knights (as was the standard for armies of the period), as opposed to going against tanks and fighter planes armed with rapid-firing cannons.
We also have no idea whatsoever how long Sophie lived before being betrayed, so I have no idea where did you pull these "decades" from. She still looked young when they seized her, plus, the whole reason for the betrayal in the first place was the Vatican, and the Inquisition. It is highly unlikely she would be allowed to live for decades in those times. Eylstadt would have been invaded into oblivion, as a heretic country, which was exactly the point King Matthias brought up when he signed off on the plot (episode 12).
I was wrong on this one, I will grant you. Several years (and it could not have been more, given how young Lotte still is in that last scene) are still not the same as decades, though, so my original point stands.
Now, I understand why people do not like all of this, but still, the only way you can give Izetta and Fine a happily-ever-after for a long, long time is if you deliberately disregard canon information. There is just no way around this. And the thing is, Fine knows this. Remember the scene after the broomride, when they were on that mountaintop (episode 12)?
F: "What? But that magic stone eats away at your life, right? If you do that..."
I: "It'll be fine."
F: "You're lying. I can tell right away when you're lying! Especially when you're lying because you're about to do something crazy for me."
I:"I'm sorry. It's true that I might die. But there's something I want enough to do it anyway. A world where everyone can choose their tomorrow. A world where you can smile. Morecheesystuffbutfortheloveofgodsmyfingersaretired.
So give me the order to fight as your witch, Archduchess, no, Fine... And to end it all."
F: "No!"
I: "I've given it a lot of thought, but I couldn't think of anything else. So..."
F: "Izetta... Izetta... My witch... I order you... you..."
And the scene cuts to Fine breaking down and yelling at the representatives of the warring powers, and from her grief it is obvious she does not expect Izetta to make it back.
Nezchan Dec 21, 2017 11:48PM
Christ, can we not have yet another discussion that's duelling walls of text? I'd rather this not turn into another Yuzumori-san discussion if both of you don't mind.
UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins Dec 21, 2017 11:57PM
Lol, I said all that I possibly could on the subject, Nez. Whether he accepts my arguments, or tries to go for an alternative interpretation, is entirely up to him, but in either of those two cases, I have pretty much nothing else to say about it. Also, the subject here is nothing like the train-wreck in the Yuzumori thread, in which I had no part whatsoever, so, eh... quick on the draw these days, I guess.
grinseb Jan 5, 2018 1:27PM
I just watch 1 ep of this series then went here for fanarts cuz i couldn't keep calm... And now I feel like I'm going to torture myself again lolll