Fuck you fates, when even LGBT groups in japan are calling you out on this shit you messed up.
(sorry but this was the most relevant place to vent my anger at the horror that is soliel's S support)
venom
Aug 27, 2015 10:32AM
@ rosenakahara what is soleil's S support and why is it so bad? and is Syalla the same?
Lifecharacter
Aug 27, 2015 10:54AM
Soleil spends most of the game happily going on about cute girls and flirting with cute girls (including her mother I believe), but she only has romantic supports with men. And, if you do it with the the male PC, you "solve" her problem by secretly drugging her so she sees men as women and is attracted to you after the drug wears off because you were an especially cute girl.
venom
Aug 27, 2015 10:58AM
..... wow i hope syalla isnt that bad
Edit: she can be with Foleo though
last edited at Aug 27, 2015 11:00AM
Lifecharacter
Aug 27, 2015 11:08AM
Sad thing is that people have been using her comments about being okay with Foleo because he looks like a cute girl as proof that she's definitely straight/bisexual/whatever.
People like that have never been very good at the whole logic thing...
Thiaguinho-sama
Aug 27, 2015 11:21AM
But wasn't her "problem" that she can't get near man because they make her faint? We talked about her in here and it's not as bad as it sound from what I remember, her support is still shit anyway.
Edit:here is the page we started talking about Fates, just keep reading that we talk about Soleil somewhere.
last edited at Aug 27, 2015 11:48AM
venom
Aug 27, 2015 11:37AM
@lifecharacter
XD i just realized foleo is guy!
last edited at Aug 27, 2015 11:37AM
Lifecharacter
Aug 27, 2015 12:15PM
I believe her problem was that she gets so excited over cute girls that she faints around them and they go about fixing it by secretly drugging her so she sees the PC as a girl and then the PC stays with her until she pretty much gets over it. From what I can tell, it's not as bad as it sounds because it's not some outright conversion therapy thing, it's just making a character who's shown interest in no one but women only romancable by men. Hell, I think they even joke about how the PC doesn't have to worry about her cheating on him because she has no interest in men.
Oh, and yes, I've heard pretty much her entire character and supports are pretty shit.
@venom Ha!
Urashi C. Pin
Aug 27, 2015 1:08PM
whats happening
Phil
Aug 27, 2015 1:40PM
Upon reading up on this, the strangest thing about the 'treatment' is that the potion turns people into the opposite gender in her mind. So there are women sounding male and men sounding female. Why should this be important?
Here's why:
If Soleil thinks her reacting too strongly to cute girls is a hindrance on the battle field (and maybe trying to get to know them outside of it), then you could easily decondition this severe response by step-by-step confrontation with cute girls, e.g. having her look at a painting of a girl, having her know there's a cute girl outside, having a cute girl sit somewhere in the room while Soleil is reading a book, dining together, having her carry around or touch a strand of hair, talking to a girl, touching her - while Soleil is doing something that helps her calm down, ultimately empowering her to approach cute girls while staying composed.
I don't think any of the above would work optimally with men looking like women - maybe it wouldn't even work at all. All the additional vibes you would normally pick up (voice and what it does to you, smell) would be missing. Why you would take away the real stimulus she reacts too strongly to is beyond me.
Oh, and for Soleil, girls should be an unconditioned stimulus (read: it's in her nature to react to girls and she reacts to them with a chance of romantic feelings, this is her unconditioned reaction) and if she ended up liking the male MC because he appeared as a female to her (sans the non-visual input), then the formerly neutral stimulus of a male, which prompted no reaction, became a conditioned stimulus (because it occured together with a female appearence, which is part of her unconditioned stimulus) and because of that also allows for romantic feelings (her conditioned reaction to that male). This is a learned reaction.
The question is whether or not she asked to be taught all that. She wasn't really desensitized to girls, rather she was conditioned to like men. Still pretty kimoi if you ask me, if it's true she dismissed Foleo as a romantic interest upon learning he is male.
looks at post
Definitely one of my stranger posts here. At least it was a good exercise in psychology.
last edited at Aug 27, 2015 1:49PM
Norainhere
Aug 27, 2015 6:29PM
^Dynasty Reader: come for the Yuri, stay for the in-depth psychoanalyses of minor video game characters.
Thiaguinho-sama
Aug 27, 2015 6:47PM
Phil
The question is whether or not she asked to be taught all that.
I don't know what exactly they do, but I'm pretty sure she asked for the MC help to fix her fainting problem around girls, the only thing she didn't know was the potion the MC put in her drink, and she don't dismiss Foleo as romantic interest, in her page in the wikia you can see all her love interest and they're all male, but I don't know if all her love interest give her that potion or just the MC.
From what I read most supports are really poorly done in Fates, Soleil is just one of the worst.
Norainhere
Aug 27, 2015 7:59PM
I wonder whether they'll change or adjust any of them in the English release? I kinda hope so
yukito
Aug 27, 2015 10:11PM
^ ditto mate also was this the game where you could play a gay character but only romanticize them with "magic powder" personally I think you should be able to romanticize anyone in FE regardless of gender
last edited at Aug 27, 2015 10:19PM
flips
Aug 28, 2015 12:13AM
^ I'd rather see specific gay characters who actually swing that way, instead of EVERYONE swinging both ways.
I'd also like for them to be properly written, not having their sexual orientation single-handedly defining their character/personality. Look, that's a lesbian character, she likes girls... she is also... she likes girls...
Maybe I am asking for too much? :p
Rye
Aug 28, 2015 1:48AM
I think the problem is that IS loves taking baby steps, they try something and add/remove it from the next one depending on the response. Not ALL the supports are bad(SoleilxOphelia is not bad...still no S) but the children mechanic was pointless.
Finally...the localization team has made some changes in FE games in the past: FE9 removed maniac mode in favor of easy mode, FE10 fixed "some" of the games poor writing other changes here. So I don't know it COULD happen but I wouldn't get my hopes up(new S rank supports I mean).
last edited at Aug 28, 2015 1:58AM
ColonalCat
Aug 28, 2015 12:34PM
Uhhhhh...not to be the harbinger of bad news but...
Soleil's back story makes a lot more sense if you look into it. Without spoiling too much, she obsesses over cute girl because of a tragic event with a certain guy in the past. The potion isn't an "anti-gay" medication; it was a medication that helped snap her out of overly fawning over the girls, to the point she would faint on the battlefield (that's kinda dangerous, ya know?). Because it was given to her by the guy character, she learns to trust men once again and is able to legitimately fall in love. She continues to fawn over cute girls afterward (think Sena from Haganai) afterwards. At the very least, she is bisexual. And it kinda makes sense why they couldn't have the same setup for the female character...but I mean, they could just have made a similar-but-different way to have the female character fall in love with her/
And at the very least, one of the Fates games has the option for a yuri end with the main character, and BOTH will have the option in the DLC third storyline.
...I guess that wasn't bad news? More good news than bad.
last edited at Aug 28, 2015 12:35PM
izayoitsukasa
Aug 30, 2015 6:48AM
wowowowowowowow
Actually in my FE if,I've made those two A+,and pretended they've already an S couple:(
Damn nintendo.
yukito
Aug 31, 2015 12:01AM
@ flips good point and @ colonalcat lets hope in the DLC she is able to be with girls as well as doods also can we get some heather x nephenee up in here
last edited at Aug 31, 2015 12:02AM
Nekofanatic
Sep 18, 2017 11:22PM
Reading through these comments I feel like I missed a really fun conversation. :<
Firecat1311
Mar 10, 2019 8:04PM
Solei's Big Problem featured in the male player character S support, about her fainting when she sees cute girls on the battlefield or whatever, is always something that gets brought up but I've yet to see anyone point out how totally off the rails ridiculous that whole thing is to begin with.
It's just... I dunno, dumb shallow writing, it's not consistent with her confident character and the fact she can be seen flirting with cute girls just fine in other support conversations, and feels like an episode of your average everyday romcom anime. It's stuff like this that makes me realize where all the FE fans who hate the new games are coming from.
drpepperfan Aug 26, 2015 10:24PM
"When your friends are being gay but you suck at mingling so you just deal with it"
http://bumbleshark.tumblr.com/post/123397605580/new-artist-challenge
Rye Aug 26, 2015 11:52PM
Cute ship but I get mad everytime I see it and then there's Eponine...
Licksdat Aug 27, 2015 12:20AM
Got to suck on something too. You suck. I suck. Everyone happily suck on something good :) no one left out.
Lol, I knew I seen this before.. Recycled Yuri goods are ok too. There's doing it too
last edited at Aug 27, 2015 12:54AM
Rosenakahara Aug 27, 2015 6:49AM
Fuck you fates, when even LGBT groups in japan are calling you out on this shit you messed up.
(sorry but this was the most relevant place to vent my anger at the horror that is soliel's S support)
venom Aug 27, 2015 10:32AM
@ rosenakahara what is soleil's S support and why is it so bad? and is Syalla the same?
Lifecharacter Aug 27, 2015 10:54AM
Soleil spends most of the game happily going on about cute girls and flirting with cute girls (including her mother I believe), but she only has romantic supports with men. And, if you do it with the the male PC, you "solve" her problem by secretly drugging her so she sees men as women and is attracted to you after the drug wears off because you were an especially cute girl.
venom Aug 27, 2015 10:58AM
..... wow i hope syalla isnt that bad
Edit: she can be with Foleo though
last edited at Aug 27, 2015 11:00AM
Lifecharacter Aug 27, 2015 11:08AM
Sad thing is that people have been using her comments about being okay with Foleo because he looks like a cute girl as proof that she's definitely straight/bisexual/whatever.
People like that have never been very good at the whole logic thing...
Thiaguinho-sama Aug 27, 2015 11:21AM
But wasn't her "problem" that she can't get near man because they make her faint? We talked about her in here and it's not as bad as it sound from what I remember, her support is still shit anyway.
here we also talked about Fates but not her.
Edit:here is the page we started talking about Fates, just keep reading that we talk about Soleil somewhere.
last edited at Aug 27, 2015 11:48AM
venom Aug 27, 2015 11:37AM
@lifecharacter
XD i just realized foleo is guy!
last edited at Aug 27, 2015 11:37AM
Lifecharacter Aug 27, 2015 12:15PM
I believe her problem was that she gets so excited over cute girls that she faints around them and they go about fixing it by secretly drugging her so she sees the PC as a girl and then the PC stays with her until she pretty much gets over it. From what I can tell, it's not as bad as it sounds because it's not some outright conversion therapy thing, it's just making a character who's shown interest in no one but women only romancable by men. Hell, I think they even joke about how the PC doesn't have to worry about her cheating on him because she has no interest in men.
Oh, and yes, I've heard pretty much her entire character and supports are pretty shit.
@venom Ha!
Urashi C. Pin Aug 27, 2015 1:08PM
whats happening
Phil Aug 27, 2015 1:40PM
Upon reading up on this, the strangest thing about the 'treatment' is that the potion turns people into the opposite gender in her mind. So there are women sounding male and men sounding female. Why should this be important?
Here's why:
If Soleil thinks her reacting too strongly to cute girls is a hindrance on the battle field (and maybe trying to get to know them outside of it), then you could easily decondition this severe response by step-by-step confrontation with cute girls, e.g. having her look at a painting of a girl, having her know there's a cute girl outside, having a cute girl sit somewhere in the room while Soleil is reading a book, dining together, having her carry around or touch a strand of hair, talking to a girl, touching her - while Soleil is doing something that helps her calm down, ultimately empowering her to approach cute girls while staying composed.
I don't think any of the above would work optimally with men looking like women - maybe it wouldn't even work at all. All the additional vibes you would normally pick up (voice and what it does to you, smell) would be missing. Why you would take away the real stimulus she reacts too strongly to is beyond me.
Oh, and for Soleil, girls should be an unconditioned stimulus (read: it's in her nature to react to girls and she reacts to them with a chance of romantic feelings, this is her unconditioned reaction) and if she ended up liking the male MC because he appeared as a female to her (sans the non-visual input), then the formerly neutral stimulus of a male, which prompted no reaction, became a conditioned stimulus (because it occured together with a female appearence, which is part of her unconditioned stimulus) and because of that also allows for romantic feelings (her conditioned reaction to that male). This is a learned reaction.
The question is whether or not she asked to be taught all that. She wasn't really desensitized to girls, rather she was conditioned to like men. Still pretty kimoi if you ask me, if it's true she dismissed Foleo as a romantic interest upon learning he is male.
looks at post
Definitely one of my stranger posts here. At least it was a good exercise in psychology.
last edited at Aug 27, 2015 1:49PM
Norainhere Aug 27, 2015 6:29PM
^Dynasty Reader: come for the Yuri, stay for the in-depth psychoanalyses of minor video game characters.
Thiaguinho-sama Aug 27, 2015 6:47PM
Phil
I don't know what exactly they do, but I'm pretty sure she asked for the MC help to fix her fainting problem around girls, the only thing she didn't know was the potion the MC put in her drink, and she don't dismiss Foleo as romantic interest, in her page in the wikia you can see all her love interest and they're all male, but I don't know if all her love interest give her that potion or just the MC.
From what I read most supports are really poorly done in Fates, Soleil is just one of the worst.
Norainhere Aug 27, 2015 7:59PM
I wonder whether they'll change or adjust any of them in the English release? I kinda hope so
yukito Aug 27, 2015 10:11PM
^ ditto mate also was this the game where you could play a gay character but only romanticize them with "magic powder" personally I think you should be able to romanticize anyone in FE regardless of gender
last edited at Aug 27, 2015 10:19PM
flips Aug 28, 2015 12:13AM
^ I'd rather see specific gay characters who actually swing that way, instead of EVERYONE swinging both ways.
I'd also like for them to be properly written, not having their sexual orientation single-handedly defining their character/personality. Look, that's a lesbian character, she likes girls... she is also... she likes girls...
Maybe I am asking for too much? :p
Rye Aug 28, 2015 1:48AM
I think the problem is that IS loves taking baby steps, they try something and add/remove it from the next one depending on the response. Not ALL the supports are bad(SoleilxOphelia is not bad...still no S) but the children mechanic was pointless.
Finally...the localization team has made some changes in FE games in the past: FE9 removed maniac mode in favor of easy mode, FE10 fixed "some" of the games poor writing other changes here. So I don't know it COULD happen but I wouldn't get my hopes up(new S rank supports I mean).
last edited at Aug 28, 2015 1:58AM
ColonalCat Aug 28, 2015 12:34PM
Uhhhhh...not to be the harbinger of bad news but...
Soleil's back story makes a lot more sense if you look into it. Without spoiling too much, she obsesses over cute girl because of a tragic event with a certain guy in the past. The potion isn't an "anti-gay" medication; it was a medication that helped snap her out of overly fawning over the girls, to the point she would faint on the battlefield (that's kinda dangerous, ya know?). Because it was given to her by the guy character, she learns to trust men once again and is able to legitimately fall in love. She continues to fawn over cute girls afterward (think Sena from Haganai) afterwards. At the very least, she is bisexual. And it kinda makes sense why they couldn't have the same setup for the female character...but I mean, they could just have made a similar-but-different way to have the female character fall in love with her/
And at the very least, one of the Fates games has the option for a yuri end with the main character, and BOTH will have the option in the DLC third storyline.
...I guess that wasn't bad news? More good news than bad.
last edited at Aug 28, 2015 12:35PM
izayoitsukasa Aug 30, 2015 6:48AM
wowowowowowowow
Actually in my FE if,I've made those two A+,and pretended they've already an S couple:(
Damn nintendo.
yukito Aug 31, 2015 12:01AM
@ flips good point and @ colonalcat lets hope in the DLC she is able to be with girls as well as doods also can we get some heather x nephenee up in here
last edited at Aug 31, 2015 12:02AM
Nekofanatic Sep 18, 2017 11:22PM
Reading through these comments I feel like I missed a really fun conversation. :<
Firecat1311 Mar 10, 2019 8:04PM
Solei's Big Problem featured in the male player character S support, about her fainting when she sees cute girls on the battlefield or whatever, is always something that gets brought up but I've yet to see anyone point out how totally off the rails ridiculous that whole thing is to begin with.
It's just... I dunno, dumb shallow writing, it's not consistent with her confident character and the fact she can be seen flirting with cute girls just fine in other support conversations, and feels like an episode of your average everyday romcom anime. It's stuff like this that makes me realize where all the FE fans who hate the new games are coming from.