-Until they start kicking you with their back legs that is, then you start regretting ever having arms.
juanelric
Oct 26, 2024 1:40AM
I'm trying to avoid watching Nijisanji talents since the Selen/Dokibird incident (I still watch Scarle but only because I've been hoping she'll go indie), but they're cute.
ImheretoDie
Oct 26, 2024 5:12AM
^ Wait- what happened? The only Vtuber I watch is a bit of a Buffpup
FluffyCow
Oct 26, 2024 5:47AM
^Ninsanji has some bad egg talents among the good ones unfortunately, this led to a situation where Selen was getting bullied by some of her fellow EN talents behind the scenes, and she was also being bullied by management. From what I remember this resulted in her being fired because she tried to kill herself (two attempts), they took issue with that and I believe saw her as a liability. So she lost her channel that she sunk a lot of time, money, and effort into. She tried to let it go, and Nijisanji decided to drag her back into the mess and which cemented how awful they are as a company in the process. Long story short, Nijisanji doubled down on making their company look horrible, while making a total mess of the situation.
Unfortunately it's a catch 22 situation, avoiding the company means avoiding all of their talents, and some of their talents I believe are good people just caught in a bad situation. Also the two Vtubers in this art are JP and weren't involved in the Selen incident as far as I know.
Hylarn
Oct 26, 2024 8:09AM
Selen wasn't fired because of the suicide attempts. There'd have been a lot more terminations if that was something they cared about
Classy-Nessi
Oct 26, 2024 11:10AM
Niji is a fucked up company from what i keep seeing and hearing..
FluffyCow
Oct 26, 2024 12:45PM
@Hylarn Ah I guess I'm misremembering the reason of termination. Regardless the whole situation was a mess, the termination was fucked, the suicide attempts are very sad, an awful happening all around. I'm just glad the woman behind Selen survived and has been back on her feet.
Moedred
Oct 26, 2024 5:33PM
If I remember it went something like that:
- Selen wanted to make a cover of a song so she requested Niji to get permission,
- Niji took MONTHS to get them even if they could get them way, way faster (there is a rumor that Selen was for some reason hated by Niji Management),
- Selen meanwhile recorded a song and commisioned/made visuals,
- She relesed cover before ensuring she got permissions and told her fans to spread it in the Internet,
- She was told to delete that and got scolded by mangement,
- Niji decided to terminate her contract.
- Selen tried to kill herself,
- All information about harrasment from Niji Management, some Niji EN talents and overall toxic atmosphere in Niji came out and it's reputation plummetred (interesting enough for people who follow stocks - Anycolor (Niji) stocks and Cover Corp. (Hololive) stocks fell down pretty much the same. Their trajectories are going more or less the same since December 2023 even if Niji events are taken really badly and Holo is getting even more popular. It's weird)
- Instead trying to control PR by telling people that they will do something to fight bullying and toxic atmosphere in company like you ofter hear from other companies in which something bad comes to light they double down and tried to shift all blame to Selen.
- Niji reputation fell down even further and didn't really recovered since, which affect their talents, even these who could have nothing with bullying or perpetuating toxicity (and "just leaving" in not that easy like some people seems to think, it's not easy to build from scratch again if it's your only source of income and your working visa bears on it. There is a reason why these who left were either Niji most popular or people who had deals with other company earlier).
There are informations that overall atmosphere in Niji is really toxic on both EN and JP side (mostly stems from Niji idea that their talents should "compete" like idols not work together like Holo or VShojo does).
She and few other former Niji talents were also talking about bullying Selen was getting from other Niji EN talents (I'm not gonna tell who, there were rumors, but NOTHING was confirmed, not by Selen or other talents. I don't really give a damn if someone is "sure" it was this or that person, Selen herself told her fans not to harras Niji lives and try to "investigate" this, because she wants to start anew).
Both Niji treatment of her, bullying and termination caused her to break and try to kill herself (if i remember it wasn't her first attempt, making it even worse, not remember if her earlier one was before of after she joined Niji).
I'm not saying Niji isn't at fault here or that Selen and Niji Management were equally guilty at this, this is obvious that shit that Niji done to Selen was crazy, but I'm trying to clean a lot of missinformation that was going around after whole situation. I still watch some Niji talents i did for last 2-3 years and I wish they could have standing to be able to leave and go indie, but i also know how hard it could be for someone who brand was build after they joined (which gives boost to popularity, well, Niji "did" gave boost).
BTW. Niji as a whole don't really give a fuck about EN side (or at least they didn't until the whole situation happen) since their revenue model is greatly based on merch not Ads/Superchats/Subs/Donations and they got vast majority of their revenue from JP side where merch sells much better than in EN spheres.
Wonder if their stock prices are even that effected but what happened or market valued went down when people could go back outside after COVID, since Holo stock is not doing too great either.
Damn that a long one.
last edited at Oct 26, 2024 5:54PM
FluffyCow
Oct 26, 2024 6:32PM
^The termination from what I remember sounded like the culmination of a lot of factors, the song, the bullying on various fronts, the suicide attempts, and so fourth. Where the company seemingly never tried to work with Selen, or help her. Instead it all came to an unfortunate conclusion where the end result was almost the worst possible outcome. Which is why I'm glad that Selen is doing so much better now, and progressing forward stronger than ever.
Also thanks for expanding on the topic. I was trying to give a summarized short version of events to the best of my ability, but the long version with a lot of added information is definitely helpful.
Hylarn
Oct 27, 2024 3:11AM
Niji as a whole don't really give a fuck about EN side (or at least they didn't until the whole situation happen) since their revenue model is greatly based on merch not Ads/Superchats/Subs/Donations and they got vast majority of their revenue from JP side where merch sells much better than in EN spheres.
This isn't really true. At the height of NijiEN's popularity, they were responsible for like a third of the company's revenue. EN does tend to get shat on by the greater company, but I think that's just down to xenophobia and corporate politics
Moedred
Oct 27, 2024 4:35AM
^ I checked financial analysis and in FY2023 (I think they have fiscal years between July 2022 and June 2023) and EN branch were making 25% of overall revenue so You are right they were making more than I thought.
Interesting thing to know is that Niji JP is making insane numbers, they are making more than whole Hololive combined. While EN side dropped by almost 50%, Y/Y JP increased by like 20%. it was growing every quarter, but there is a drop in last quarter so they could have problems.
Even more interesting is that Niji as a whole have 68% female audience, at least in FY2024.
last edited at Oct 27, 2024 8:10AM
Hylarn
Oct 27, 2024 5:04AM
Interesting thing to know is that Niji JP is making insane numbers, they are making more than whole Hololive combined.
Wait, last I'd heard they had pretty comparable revenues? Anycolor has much higher profits, but that's because they don't believe in investing the company
Moedred
Oct 27, 2024 6:18AM
Revenue-wise they went from 24 Bil ¥ in 2023 to 32 Bil ¥ in 2024. So yeah overall they are still growing. I think Q42024 had like 50% Y/Y growth.
LilyBlueCat Oct 25, 2024 11:18PM
Animal by day, animal by night
ImheretoDie Oct 26, 2024 12:34AM
Awe~ I love one cat to do that first image.
-Until they start kicking you with their back legs that is, then you start regretting ever having arms.
juanelric Oct 26, 2024 1:40AM
I'm trying to avoid watching Nijisanji talents since the Selen/Dokibird incident (I still watch Scarle but only because I've been hoping she'll go indie), but they're cute.
ImheretoDie Oct 26, 2024 5:12AM
^ Wait- what happened? The only Vtuber I watch is a bit of a Buffpup
FluffyCow Oct 26, 2024 5:47AM
^Ninsanji has some bad egg talents among the good ones unfortunately, this led to a situation where Selen was getting bullied by some of her fellow EN talents behind the scenes, and she was also being bullied by management. From what I remember this resulted in her being fired because she tried to kill herself (two attempts), they took issue with that and I believe saw her as a liability. So she lost her channel that she sunk a lot of time, money, and effort into. She tried to let it go, and Nijisanji decided to drag her back into the mess and which cemented how awful they are as a company in the process. Long story short, Nijisanji doubled down on making their company look horrible, while making a total mess of the situation.
Unfortunately it's a catch 22 situation, avoiding the company means avoiding all of their talents, and some of their talents I believe are good people just caught in a bad situation. Also the two Vtubers in this art are JP and weren't involved in the Selen incident as far as I know.
Hylarn Oct 26, 2024 8:09AM
Selen wasn't fired because of the suicide attempts. There'd have been a lot more terminations if that was something they cared about
Classy-Nessi Oct 26, 2024 11:10AM
Niji is a fucked up company from what i keep seeing and hearing..
FluffyCow Oct 26, 2024 12:45PM
@Hylarn Ah I guess I'm misremembering the reason of termination. Regardless the whole situation was a mess, the termination was fucked, the suicide attempts are very sad, an awful happening all around. I'm just glad the woman behind Selen survived and has been back on her feet.
Moedred Oct 26, 2024 5:33PM
If I remember it went something like that:
- Selen wanted to make a cover of a song so she requested Niji to get permission,
- Niji took MONTHS to get them even if they could get them way, way faster (there is a rumor that Selen was for some reason hated by Niji Management),
- Selen meanwhile recorded a song and commisioned/made visuals,
- She relesed cover before ensuring she got permissions and told her fans to spread it in the Internet,
- She was told to delete that and got scolded by mangement,
- Niji decided to terminate her contract.
- Selen tried to kill herself,
- All information about harrasment from Niji Management, some Niji EN talents and overall toxic atmosphere in Niji came out and it's reputation plummetred (interesting enough for people who follow stocks - Anycolor (Niji) stocks and Cover Corp. (Hololive) stocks fell down pretty much the same. Their trajectories are going more or less the same since December 2023 even if Niji events are taken really badly and Holo is getting even more popular. It's weird)
- Instead trying to control PR by telling people that they will do something to fight bullying and toxic atmosphere in company like you ofter hear from other companies in which something bad comes to light they double down and tried to shift all blame to Selen.
- Niji reputation fell down even further and didn't really recovered since, which affect their talents, even these who could have nothing with bullying or perpetuating toxicity (and "just leaving" in not that easy like some people seems to think, it's not easy to build from scratch again if it's your only source of income and your working visa bears on it. There is a reason why these who left were either Niji most popular or people who had deals with other company earlier).
There are informations that overall atmosphere in Niji is really toxic on both EN and JP side (mostly stems from Niji idea that their talents should "compete" like idols not work together like Holo or VShojo does).
She and few other former Niji talents were also talking about bullying Selen was getting from other Niji EN talents (I'm not gonna tell who, there were rumors, but NOTHING was confirmed, not by Selen or other talents. I don't really give a damn if someone is "sure" it was this or that person, Selen herself told her fans not to harras Niji lives and try to "investigate" this, because she wants to start anew).
Both Niji treatment of her, bullying and termination caused her to break and try to kill herself (if i remember it wasn't her first attempt, making it even worse, not remember if her earlier one was before of after she joined Niji).
I'm not saying Niji isn't at fault here or that Selen and Niji Management were equally guilty at this, this is obvious that shit that Niji done to Selen was crazy, but I'm trying to clean a lot of missinformation that was going around after whole situation. I still watch some Niji talents i did for last 2-3 years and I wish they could have standing to be able to leave and go indie, but i also know how hard it could be for someone who brand was build after they joined (which gives boost to popularity, well, Niji "did" gave boost).
BTW. Niji as a whole don't really give a fuck about EN side (or at least they didn't until the whole situation happen) since their revenue model is greatly based on merch not Ads/Superchats/Subs/Donations and they got vast majority of their revenue from JP side where merch sells much better than in EN spheres.
Wonder if their stock prices are even that effected but what happened or market valued went down when people could go back outside after COVID, since Holo stock is not doing too great either.
Damn that a long one.
last edited at Oct 26, 2024 5:54PM
FluffyCow Oct 26, 2024 6:32PM
^The termination from what I remember sounded like the culmination of a lot of factors, the song, the bullying on various fronts, the suicide attempts, and so fourth. Where the company seemingly never tried to work with Selen, or help her. Instead it all came to an unfortunate conclusion where the end result was almost the worst possible outcome. Which is why I'm glad that Selen is doing so much better now, and progressing forward stronger than ever.
Also thanks for expanding on the topic. I was trying to give a summarized short version of events to the best of my ability, but the long version with a lot of added information is definitely helpful.
Hylarn Oct 27, 2024 3:11AM
This isn't really true. At the height of NijiEN's popularity, they were responsible for like a third of the company's revenue. EN does tend to get shat on by the greater company, but I think that's just down to xenophobia and corporate politics
Moedred Oct 27, 2024 4:35AM
^ I checked financial analysis and in FY2023 (I think they have fiscal years between July 2022 and June 2023) and EN branch were making 25% of overall revenue so You are right they were making more than I thought.
Interesting thing to know is that Niji JP is making insane numbers, they are making more than whole Hololive combined. While EN side dropped by almost 50%, Y/Y JP increased by like 20%. it was growing every quarter, but there is a drop in last quarter so they could have problems.
Even more interesting is that Niji as a whole have 68% female audience, at least in FY2024.
last edited at Oct 27, 2024 8:10AM
Hylarn Oct 27, 2024 5:04AM
Wait, last I'd heard they had pretty comparable revenues? Anycolor has much higher profits, but that's because they don't believe in investing the company
Moedred Oct 27, 2024 6:18AM
Revenue-wise they went from 24 Bil ¥ in 2023 to 32 Bil ¥ in 2024. So yeah overall they are still growing. I think Q42024 had like 50% Y/Y growth.
And yeah, I know the yacht guy.
last edited at Oct 27, 2024 6:35AM