GrimEater Sep 15, 2023 10:50PM

Good friends

Bielle Sep 15, 2023 11:26PM

Apparently this comic was some sort of middle finger to the people who made straight art of Bronya and Seele. GRS says she wanted to mock the homophobes who keep saying they're just "friends" and not lesbians.

But then she changed the characters from Bronya and Seele to OCs because, in her own words, she "doesn't want to go anywhere close to the Honkai fandom".

Yomama2000 Sep 15, 2023 11:36PM

Unbelievably based as always ^^^

Lonelygirl Sep 16, 2023 1:15AM

But then she changed the characters from Bronya and Seele to OCs because, in her own words, she "doesn't want to go anywhere close to the Honkai fandom".

Good for her... Like at this point I think those homophobes are the delusion ones.. Like????

Lonelygirl Sep 16, 2023 1:17AM

The "not yuri" tag

Bielle Sep 16, 2023 1:38AM

^^ Yeah, on one hand it's SUPER refreshing seeing a big yuri artist calling out the self insert homophobes. Like really, the silence that came from the yuri community while Bronya and Seele's relationship was being dragged through the mud was deafening.

But on the other hand it's kinda sad, cause we'll probably never see GRS draw any of the Honkai girls, because she fucking hates the community lol

luinthoron Sep 16, 2023 5:30AM

Like homies.

Lewdholder Sep 16, 2023 7:31AM

GRS is here, isn't it?

Reirin Sep 16, 2023 7:34AM

^^^Why is there silence in the yuri community with Bronya and Seele's relationship?

last edited at Sep 16, 2023 11:16PM

FluffyCow Sep 16, 2023 12:39PM

I feel like drawing loads of gay Honkai art is the best way to fight haha

Same goes for any fandom, as there's unfortunately homophobia in every fandom.

Semtext Sep 16, 2023 1:09PM

^^^^^I actually saw the exact opposite. People were saying ANY straight art with them was homophobic no matter the context, and notably hated Hinghoi, calling them a bigoted exploiter that doesn't deserve to have their works featured in the community. Meanwhile, posts featuring canonically straight characters were accepted without hesitation, which honestly struck me as a double standard.

last edited at Sep 16, 2023 1:10PM

Bielle Sep 16, 2023 1:50PM

^ Except Hinghoi IS an "anti SJW" kind of person, anyone who follows them is aware of that. Featuring the arts of a person who are not fond of queer people, in a queer community is not okay. The dude literally made art of Caelus impregnating Bronya and Seele (one of the most popular fictional queer couples) and you wonder why people don't want their art featured in lesbian spaces?

Also, you honestly believe drawing a straight ship of a canonically lesbian couple is not homophobic? You think artists like Kulo Jawa saw Bronya and Seele and said "awww, Caelus is so cute when he's having a threesome with Bronya and Seele"?

GRS__ Sep 16, 2023 2:36PM

No, Lewdholder, I'm just a construct of your imagination, I only exist inside your mind.

Lmaoo ngl I'm just enjoying the fight here. I'm rooting for the dude defending Hinghoi and straight ships of lesbians lmao

Semtext Sep 16, 2023 2:40PM

^^Looking through their Twitter, I genuinely can't see anything like that. Can you point me in the right direction?

And no, I don't consider it INHERENTLY homophobic, only the artist's prerogative and freedom of expression, just like any other works considered problematic by society. If they did stuff like adding homophobic commentary or spammed it in reply to works only of the couple, that would very much be homophobic.

last edited at Sep 16, 2023 2:40PM

Bielle Sep 16, 2023 2:59PM

So let me get this straight:

-Drawing art of two lesbians getting impregnated by a man is not homophobic.

-Drawing art of a man between two lesbians and tagging "Bronseele" to the whole lesbian community to see is not homophobic.

-Retaliating by drawing even more art of two lesbians cheating on each other with a man is not homophobic.

Golly gee I wonder what is homophobic then! You gotta keep in mind that those straight ships involving Bronya and Seele didn't come from a "aww Caelus, Bronya and Seele look so cute together" place, if you honestly believe all those arts depicting a man "converting" two lesbians come from a wholesome and pure place and not a homophobic one, I don't know what to tell you. Delusion is a hell of a drug.

Semtext Sep 16, 2023 3:22PM

^First item, not inherently absent context. Second and third, that is homophobic, but that's because of the details that are not applicable to Hinghoi, which is who I'm talking about specifically. In addition, I would wager that a good many (if not most) of hetero content is just because the creators/customers get off to it. I agree that some creators do so out of hatred, but you can't use that to make assumptions about ALL of them.

Bielle Sep 16, 2023 3:39PM

People unironically defending lesbian "conversion" art IN a yuri site? It's more likely than you think!

Semtext Sep 16, 2023 4:10PM

^Part of artistic freedom means that content you don't personally like is going to exist. If the creator doesn't make a fuss and they aren't trying to push a message, then just move on like the rest of us. Otherwise, you're nothing but one of those "stop liking things I don't" killjoys that ruin fan spaces.

Bielle Sep 16, 2023 4:26PM

And part of said "freedom" is calling out the problematic shit those artists make. It's not a matter of "ow they made art I don't like" my guy, it's bigger than that, it's literally homophobia. Go to any of those arts, specially the one from the artist you defend so much, go to the comments and tell me there's not any homophobia there.

Like I said those arts don't come from a positive place, they were made with the intent of pissing off lesbians and you defending homophobic arts and artists in a place that many consider a safe space for lgbt people is disgusting my dude.

1kiwi.7 Sep 16, 2023 4:39PM

i thought ppl were actively going against the weird artists putting caelus with bronya or seele wdym there was silence? /gen

luinthoron Sep 16, 2023 4:42PM

I mean, there may certainly be artists who do this kind of thing out of malice, but that does not mean all of them are like that. Just as you have the right to ship canonically straight characters in queer ships, everyone has the right to ship whatever characters they like in whatever ships they prefer. Not out of hate, but simply because they like the characters and their interactions, regardless of their canon status, just like a lot of the stuff here does. Might not be to your (or, to be honest, my) taste, but that's simply how shipping works.

Bielle Sep 16, 2023 4:59PM

^The great majority of those arts were made to piss off lesbians. Basically, a dude made art of Caelus between Bronya and Seele and tagged it Bronseele, so that lesbians could see it. People got angry and in retaliation lots of artists started making art of Caelus having threesomes with Bronya and Seele. It was purely out of spite and full of malice. It wasn't a cute art of a ship that was misinterpreted, it straight up depicted a dude converting two lesbians.

It blows my mind how someone can defend that shit, specially in a place like Dynasty.

last edited at Sep 16, 2023 5:02PM

Semtext Sep 16, 2023 5:03PM

^^^^The existence of homophobic comments about a work does not mean that the creator intended their work to be homophobic. If it worked like that, the conservative commentary about 1984 would make you think it was written by Ayn Rand herself. Also, you are still presuming the intentions of ALL creators based on how SOME act. Are you genuinely unable to think of why someone would make problematic content for reasons other than pure malice?

last edited at Sep 16, 2023 5:03PM

Semtext Sep 16, 2023 5:06PM

^Also, I'm not defending tagging their ship name or making art to piss people off, and explicitly called it homophobic to do so. I am talking about the general existence of the content matter itself.

GRS__ Sep 16, 2023 5:09PM

Okay, people, stop fighting.

I declare SEM "Lesbians just haven't found the right dick yet" TEXT the winner of this epic argument lmaoo

DY4Y Sep 16, 2023 5:14PM

@luinthoron No, actually. If an author erases a character's canonical sexuality they are being homophobic even if that wasn't their intention. Their homophobia should be called out and criticised even if it doesn't come from a place of malice

(Also, shipping straight characters in gay ships is not equivalent to the reverse. One is okay, the other is not.)

last edited at Sep 16, 2023 5:14PM

Semtext Sep 16, 2023 5:27PM

^^I hope that was sarcastic, because I'd assume an artist that has sometimes featured "problematic" elements in their work would know the difference between depicting content artistically and endorsing doing it IRL.

Bielle Sep 16, 2023 5:45PM

^this dude is really trying to argue with an actual yuri artist, just stop my dude. Go defend your lesbian conversion art somewhere else.

Semtext Sep 16, 2023 5:56PM

^Hey, I've just seen what happens when people start calling artists immoral just for including specific problematic content, and don't like being called a bigot for trying to prevent it.

Bielle Sep 16, 2023 6:02PM

^Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you have

Yasako Sep 16, 2023 8:50PM

"Canonically straight characters" is ridiculous LMFAO no one ever bothers to specifically have a character say "I am heterosexual" outside of like manhwa where they try to BL bait

Danakir Sep 17, 2023 2:01AM

Shame we missed out on some fanart because of the bigots but at least this is still pretty damned funny.

Also big missed opportunity to joke about them showering together to 'save water' :P

juanelric Sep 17, 2023 6:42PM

I didn't want to join that conversation, as much as I hate "lesbian conversion" art, but I'll add that people out there edit art of Ursula and Sela to make Sela straight.

last edited at Sep 17, 2023 6:42PM

nintenplayer Sep 18, 2023 8:18AM

This is some negative talk, I've seen some of those "conversion" arts and I do not want to get reminded of them :(
Bielle is right, those are meant to hurt people, and it's hard to believe any of those arts were drawn in good faith. And those artists know what they are doing by uploading them online for all to see, especially with specific tagging. I'm tired of some people clinging on to "freedom of speech" to defend that shit... It's been said a thousand times but whenever someone brings that phrase up it's usually THEIR freedom to do whatever they want. What about my freedom to be offended then?

Anyways, mega based GRS content as always, I always love her coloring style!!

Chinro Sep 18, 2023 9:25AM

(Also, shipping straight characters in gay ships is not equivalent to the reverse. One is okay, the other is not.)

Why is that, absent any malice in the image?

DY4Y Sep 18, 2023 9:40AM

Because queer people are a minority while cishet people aren't. There's no such thing as heterophobia but homophobia does exist and affects real people.
In the same way "blackwashing" white characters is fine but whitewashing black ones isn't etc.

I'm obviously being reductive and there's nuance to this but it works as a general rule.
And like, artists are allowed to make whatever they want but we the audience also have the right to call them out on shitty behaviour such as doing something homophobic or racist.

last edited at Sep 18, 2023 9:42AM

Chinro Sep 18, 2023 11:20AM

Eh, I don't really agree but people are free to speak their mind as you say. But being rude over it seems a bit far to me. People will make all kinds of changes to existing characters and stories, there will always be someone who takes issue with something so why not live and let live?

Bielle Sep 18, 2023 12:11PM

@nintenplayer They want people to believe that it's okay to depict lesbians getting "converted" and that there's no malice behind it. And if gay people get angry at them and talk back, they say the gays are being mean and rude to them. Gay people should just watch their favorite queer characters get bastardized and never say a word about it.

"Oh, but they ship straight characters". No shit! Mainstream gay relationships are so rare that gay people end up shipping straight characters in gay ships. And it is not the same thing. @DY4Y perfectly explained the difference.

And the worst part is to see people defending that homophobic shit on a site like Dynasty, a place a lot of lesbians use. Hell, the author of this very comic IS A LESBIAN and she saw people defending lesbian conversion art in the comments of her post. Jfc.

juanelric Sep 18, 2023 3:58PM

I'd also like to point out that a lot of anime based on Yuri mangas and LNs don't even get to the point where the characters actually start dating - Bloom Into You didn't.

There's also the fact a lot of series have basically no male characters and artists will sooner make up one than make Yuri doujins (or at least that's what gets scanned and uploaded to doujin sites).

last edited at Sep 18, 2023 4:00PM

FluffyCow Sep 18, 2023 4:07PM

People on all sides continue cycles of hate and arguing. It's exhausting to me.

Edit: My intent isn't to be dismissive, I'm just tired of seeing so much hate spread around on the internet. That's all.

last edited at Sep 18, 2023 8:57PM

nintenplayer Sep 18, 2023 7:49PM

^ I think it's sorta dismissive to label this a "both sides bad" kind of situation, but I get your frustration
They clarified, and it's a fair point

And yeah @Bielle, I'm kinda fucking blown away seeing some people think this is okay. On Twitter maybe but on this site? I'm kinda let down tbh :(
It's one thing to argue to not engage in any of them (which is a good idea, those artists do what they do to piss people off) but to say one has to "respect their freedom to draw whatever they want" when the said drawing is literally meant to target and downplay lesbians is very irritating ngl. For some reason queer people should always just shut up and take it. It's always us who are the sensitive ones, isn't it :(

last edited at Sep 18, 2023 11:24PM

MrEngenious Sep 18, 2023 8:32PM

While no one has broken any rules explicitly, this conversation has gotten a bit deeper than the image topic section was accommodating for.

I'm going to have to request that this specific line of argumentation conclude here and either move elsewhere, like a dedicated post on the forums or just perhaps not trying to bring twitter, formerly known as a useful website, to the forums any more than it has.

And while the background information is relevant to the image in question, it has clearly overtaken the focus here and moved into political considerations of all people involved.

Posters have already made clear why such art by those mentioned and unmentioned artists are harmful rather than something one can completely ignore as "artistic license" when it's being actively shared with malicious purpose. While we are not outright banning opposing viewpoints on this matter, we are going to clamp down on it when to goes from curiosity/questioning to staunch defense. If people want to live and let live, then let the gays/trans/enby live too.

Lizstar Sep 19, 2023 11:22AM

For what it's worth I really love the art lmao

Also a big fan of the "not yuri" tag on this.