If only this series actually had this kind of dynamic. Instead of the "annoying lesbian friend that's too persistent" trope that I feel like some authors think is funny, but it just strikes me as homophobic. Not to get overly serious here, as this art is cute.
TopKoak
Feb 6, 2023 10:25PM
@FluffyCow If what I've been told is true, she gets over Misaka in the new volume and has a "realizes she's not gay" moment that all the awful early 2000s writers pull.
FluffyCow
Feb 6, 2023 10:51PM
^Well that's fucking terrible, and now I want to crawl into a hole...
The arguably best thing to do would have been to have her get over Misaka and find a proper girlfriend, a girl that returns her feelings.
KitsuYuri
Feb 6, 2023 10:55PM
^^well there goes my fav ship in the toaru series....., time to drop the anime. Better stop early b4 they make misaka and the index mc canon y'see :'D
deltahalo241
Feb 7, 2023 12:27AM
What I would give for this to be canon, they have such a great dynamic together. It's a shame I have to be constantly reminded that Touma exists whenever I try to get into the series
luinthoron
Feb 7, 2023 3:37AM
@TopKoak Well, that "realization" certainly doesn't sound like a good idea, but I'm glad to hear about her getting over Misaka. Maybe I'll even grow to like Kuroko someday like this.
Reirin
Feb 7, 2023 6:21AM
@TopKoak what volume is that shit?!
Love this pairing despite their issues.
last edited at Feb 7, 2023 6:22AM
Yuki Baskerville
Feb 7, 2023 9:08AM
@TopKoak are we talking about Index LN? well that's pretty terrible, I have not read that LN because Touma is insufferable.
But if we are talking about Railgun manga, the arc we are in right now is a flashback from 1 year before Kuroko is Mikoto's roommate, and we haven't seen Kuroko in a while because she was not there at that time.
TopKoak
Feb 7, 2023 10:18AM
I'm talking about the LN yeah, also my bad about it being from the most recent volume, the big realization of "oh I'm not gay actually" is from a volume that came out last year when Kuroko gave up on Misaka so NiceGuy McWomanPuncher can have her.
Blax
Feb 7, 2023 11:00AM
???? @TopKoak I think you got gaslighted, because nothing like that happened. Hell, she is barely in the last volume (and the last we saw her she was thinking she was dreaming because of being surrounded by the Misaka clone)
What I think happened is that you probably talked with an obnoxious KamiKuro (that started to show up more and more because Kuroko and Touma have a team up in a previous volume and gasp, have a normal conversations between them !) a told you their fanfiction as some kind of fact. I have lot of problem with how the author portray Kuroko, but the "I guess I'm not gay now" it's not one them so far
zokoi
Feb 7, 2023 1:21PM
@TopKoak: please state your source cuz I'm sure that never happened anywhere.
For anyone who thinks that this ship is toxic and the author is doing a terrible job of writing Kuroko, please remember that when this started around 2007 in Japan, the entire ship was meant to be a joke.
However, if you read the Astral Buddy manga (another To aru spin off) then you will know that the author is starting to treat this ship seriously, as an unrequited love from Kuroko's end.
Anw, Kuroko won't give up on trying to win Misaka's love for a long while, @TopKoak please check your source before stating fake facts.
Also, I'd like to remind everyone that Touma isn't a bad dude. He literally nearly dies every arc in To Aru Index to save other people, even people whom he only just met. He's just dense to romantic advances, like most other harem protagonists.
FluffyCow
Feb 7, 2023 3:13PM
^Yes the author treating homosexuality as a "joke" is a large part of my problem, even if it's improved over time as you say the start is still bad. The gay character that can't take a hint and persistently harasses at least one straight character or more, it continues this homophobic notion that being gay means you don't have boundaries with hitting on straight people and just make them uncomfortable. It's not funny. I also hate it with Tite Kubo as well, with the likes of "Chizuru Honsho" in Bleach, and "Macy Baljure" in Burn The Witch.
juanelric
Feb 7, 2023 4:50PM
^Yeah that kinda stuff is really annoying
deltahalo241
Feb 7, 2023 8:35PM
As for @TopKoak's comments, I think perhaps they're getting mixed up with an arc in Railgun T where Kuroko has her memories of Misaka wiped? During this arc she "claims" to be straight, but she pretty much immediately begins falling for Misaka again.
There's actually a really awesome scene later on in the arc where she basically embraces her feelings for Misaka and uses them to hive herself the resolve to beat an enemy
Zen-Pai
Feb 8, 2023 3:59PM
yes, is a shame that this duo is not given a serious approach and above all that it continues as a bad joke, as they say it feels like harassment and I never like that part of Kuroko's character since she is a very good character to be a simple joke, I don't know how much more it can be developed in the manga but it would be good if it weren't the case of "I'm not gay" she can get over misaka and at least give her feelings a real place.
zokoi
Feb 9, 2023 9:40AM
@FluffyCow: I agree, it's very annoying indeed. However, in this case, Kuroko really doesn't respect Misaka's boundary because she believes she can make Misaka fall in love with her. Kuroko's approach to love is actually a bit toxic like that.
which makes sense btw because espers with high levels tend to be narcissistic and lacks common sense; some can even be highly unhinged
last edited at Feb 9, 2023 9:40AM
juanelric
Feb 9, 2023 3:57PM
I'd say To Aru is a relic of a time where Yuri in non-Yuri series was used just as fanservice, but that's still prevalent today
FluffyCow
Feb 9, 2023 4:47PM
@zokoi I think you're speaking from a perspective that's focusing on her agency as a character, and the in world reasoning. Where as I'm talking about the author and how the author is writing this trope I dislike.
@juanelric More so I'd say a product of a time more accepting of homophobia, as the specific trope is one that's making a "joke" at the expense of homosexuality. A trope I at least think I see far less in recent times, as LGBTQ+ acceptance has been increasing. I also feel fanservice is a different topic for another time.
SmokedSalmon
Feb 9, 2023 7:28PM
@ToKoak no fucking way, really? Good God.
To be honest is a real shame, Kuroko and Mikoto have a great dynamic when there's no sexual harassment involved.
Although Kuroko's and Misaki's dynamic is even better during the Astral Buddy manga, I'll die on this hill
TopKoak
Feb 10, 2023 10:08PM
@zokoi I haven't checked in on this series myself in like 4 years, so if I was mislead I do apologize for spreading misinformation. I was pretty ready to believe it though, since aside from the person being pretty trustworthy, I flipped through a random volume of Railgun during the Pandemic and it was giving credence of the fandom claim that Awaki is a pedo, not to mention the writer is a relic from when "lesbian sexual harasser" was part of every harem series' character lineup.
FluffyCow Feb 6, 2023 9:20PM
If only this series actually had this kind of dynamic. Instead of the "annoying lesbian friend that's too persistent" trope that I feel like some authors think is funny, but it just strikes me as homophobic. Not to get overly serious here, as this art is cute.
TopKoak Feb 6, 2023 10:25PM
@FluffyCow If what I've been told is true, she gets over Misaka in the new volume and has a "realizes she's not gay" moment that all the awful early 2000s writers pull.
FluffyCow Feb 6, 2023 10:51PM
^Well that's fucking terrible, and now I want to crawl into a hole...
The arguably best thing to do would have been to have her get over Misaka and find a proper girlfriend, a girl that returns her feelings.
KitsuYuri Feb 6, 2023 10:55PM
^^well there goes my fav ship in the toaru series....., time to drop the anime. Better stop early b4 they make misaka and the index mc canon y'see :'D
deltahalo241 Feb 7, 2023 12:27AM
What I would give for this to be canon, they have such a great dynamic together. It's a shame I have to be constantly reminded that Touma exists whenever I try to get into the series
luinthoron Feb 7, 2023 3:37AM
@TopKoak Well, that "realization" certainly doesn't sound like a good idea, but I'm glad to hear about her getting over Misaka. Maybe I'll even grow to like Kuroko someday like this.
Reirin Feb 7, 2023 6:21AM
@TopKoak what volume is that shit?!
Love this pairing despite their issues.
last edited at Feb 7, 2023 6:22AM
Yuki Baskerville Feb 7, 2023 9:08AM
@TopKoak are we talking about Index LN? well that's pretty terrible, I have not read that LN because Touma is insufferable.
But if we are talking about Railgun manga, the arc we are in right now is a flashback from 1 year before Kuroko is Mikoto's roommate, and we haven't seen Kuroko in a while because she was not there at that time.
TopKoak Feb 7, 2023 10:18AM
I'm talking about the LN yeah, also my bad about it being from the most recent volume, the big realization of "oh I'm not gay actually" is from a volume that came out last year when Kuroko gave up on Misaka so NiceGuy McWomanPuncher can have her.
Blax Feb 7, 2023 11:00AM
???? @TopKoak I think you got gaslighted, because nothing like that happened. Hell, she is barely in the last volume (and the last we saw her she was thinking she was dreaming because of being surrounded by the Misaka clone)
What I think happened is that you probably talked with an obnoxious KamiKuro (that started to show up more and more because Kuroko and Touma have a team up in a previous volume and gasp, have a normal conversations between them !) a told you their fanfiction as some kind of fact. I have lot of problem with how the author portray Kuroko, but the "I guess I'm not gay now" it's not one them so far
zokoi Feb 7, 2023 1:21PM
@TopKoak: please state your source cuz I'm sure that never happened anywhere.
For anyone who thinks that this ship is toxic and the author is doing a terrible job of writing Kuroko, please remember that when this started around 2007 in Japan, the entire ship was meant to be a joke.
However, if you read the Astral Buddy manga (another To aru spin off) then you will know that the author is starting to treat this ship seriously, as an unrequited love from Kuroko's end.
Anw, Kuroko won't give up on trying to win Misaka's love for a long while, @TopKoak please check your source before stating fake facts.
Also, I'd like to remind everyone that Touma isn't a bad dude. He literally nearly dies every arc in To Aru Index to save other people, even people whom he only just met. He's just dense to romantic advances, like most other harem protagonists.
FluffyCow Feb 7, 2023 3:13PM
^Yes the author treating homosexuality as a "joke" is a large part of my problem, even if it's improved over time as you say the start is still bad. The gay character that can't take a hint and persistently harasses at least one straight character or more, it continues this homophobic notion that being gay means you don't have boundaries with hitting on straight people and just make them uncomfortable. It's not funny. I also hate it with Tite Kubo as well, with the likes of "Chizuru Honsho" in Bleach, and "Macy Baljure" in Burn The Witch.
juanelric Feb 7, 2023 4:50PM
^Yeah that kinda stuff is really annoying
deltahalo241 Feb 7, 2023 8:35PM
As for @TopKoak's comments, I think perhaps they're getting mixed up with an arc in Railgun T where Kuroko has her memories of Misaka wiped? During this arc she "claims" to be straight, but she pretty much immediately begins falling for Misaka again.
There's actually a really awesome scene later on in the arc where she basically embraces her feelings for Misaka and uses them to hive herself the resolve to beat an enemy
Zen-Pai Feb 8, 2023 3:59PM
yes, is a shame that this duo is not given a serious approach and above all that it continues as a bad joke, as they say it feels like harassment and I never like that part of Kuroko's character since she is a very good character to be a simple joke, I don't know how much more it can be developed in the manga but it would be good if it weren't the case of "I'm not gay" she can get over misaka and at least give her feelings a real place.
zokoi Feb 9, 2023 9:40AM
@FluffyCow: I agree, it's very annoying indeed. However, in this case, Kuroko really doesn't respect Misaka's boundary because she believes she can make Misaka fall in love with her. Kuroko's approach to love is actually a bit toxic like that.
which makes sense btw because espers with high levels tend to be narcissistic and lacks common sense; some can even be highly unhinged
last edited at Feb 9, 2023 9:40AM
juanelric Feb 9, 2023 3:57PM
I'd say To Aru is a relic of a time where Yuri in non-Yuri series was used just as fanservice, but that's still prevalent today
FluffyCow Feb 9, 2023 4:47PM
@zokoi I think you're speaking from a perspective that's focusing on her agency as a character, and the in world reasoning. Where as I'm talking about the author and how the author is writing this trope I dislike.
@juanelric More so I'd say a product of a time more accepting of homophobia, as the specific trope is one that's making a "joke" at the expense of homosexuality. A trope I at least think I see far less in recent times, as LGBTQ+ acceptance has been increasing. I also feel fanservice is a different topic for another time.
SmokedSalmon Feb 9, 2023 7:28PM
@ToKoak no fucking way, really? Good God.
To be honest is a real shame, Kuroko and Mikoto have a great dynamic when there's no sexual harassment involved.
Although Kuroko's and Misaki's dynamic is even better during the Astral Buddy manga, I'll die on this hillTopKoak Feb 10, 2023 10:08PM
@zokoi I haven't checked in on this series myself in like 4 years, so if I was mislead I do apologize for spreading misinformation. I was pretty ready to believe it though, since aside from the person being pretty trustworthy, I flipped through a random volume of Railgun during the Pandemic and it was giving credence of the fandom claim that Awaki is a pedo, not to mention the writer is a relic from when "lesbian sexual harasser" was part of every harem series' character lineup.