That's a hell of an uncofortable position if it was Futa. It's not if it's scissoring. I don't see any hint it's Futa.
DY4Y
May 1, 2021 8:18AM
^The bit of skin in the crotch area looks like a dick if you squint. And futa doesn't really look more uncomfortable to me than if it was normal scissoring
Fuwafu
May 1, 2021 12:19PM
It seems pretty unlikely that Reyna doesn't have a dick here (unless she's got one hell of a left thigh), but given that the artist linked in the source goes by any pronouns and has recently retweeted other art of girls with penii that specifically request against using the term futa, I don't know that I would necessarily assume that this image is intended as such.
DY4Y
May 1, 2021 1:05PM
^Oo, trans Reyna? that's even better
last edited at May 1, 2021 1:09PM
Fuwafu
May 1, 2021 3:14PM
^ I don't know, since the artist never said one way or the other, but it's certainly not out of the question.
That said, I think it's a problem when art of women with dicks is instantly assumed to be futa (for what little futa as a genre can exist outside of weird hyper-fetishization of trans women and/or intersex people.)
DY4Y
May 1, 2021 3:34PM
^Personally I tend to label things trans in my head, but have gone through so many arguments with internet weirdoes that I just default to saying futa in most cases. But sometimes there's rays of light like Lavender Incubus or possibly this artist which is fun
to avoid making this get too off topic this'll be my last bit
Tamahime
May 1, 2021 6:29PM
Can someone explain for ignorant people like me what the difference is between "futanari" and "women with dicks (but not futa)"? I guess I always just thought the former was the Japanese term for the latter.
FWIW the woman on top here definitely has a dick. There's no other conclusion based on the way crotches work.
Fuwafu
May 1, 2021 8:35PM
^ It is a bit of a complicated topic but I will try to break it down to the best of my understanding, apologies/warning in advance for the long comment and a bit of medical talk. Worth noting that this is my perspective and understanding, I am sure others would feel differently.
The term futanari taken literally just means "two forms"/"two parts", although it was generally used to refer to people that were androgynous or had both a dick and a vagina, what would at the time be known as a (fairly insensitive and largely outdated) term like hermaphrodite. However, the term generally was not synonymous with porn like it nowadays is (especially in the West), and mostly just meant a figure was "somewhere in-between" so to speak.
Eventually, around the late-20th century, some ero artists began to latch onto the idea for porn (some sources I have seen even specifically claim that transgender porn from the U.S. inspired a bunch of the earliest futanari comics, but I am not certain if it truly began the trend.) Fast forward several years (plus countless porn manga finding their way to the West) and the term has taken on a modern meaning that is almost completely sexual (at least over here, I do not know about its use in Japan but it is certainly more sexual than it once was.) That modern meaning largely falls into two categories: a person with fully-developed breasts, vagina, and penis, or a person with fully-developed breasts and a penis.
The former doesn't really have a real-life comparison, although it largely plays into an inaccurate stereotype of intersex people (the more respectful modern term for a number of differences linked to uncommon configurations of the sex chromosomes.) To my understanding, there are no common conditions which could cause someone to develop both a fully-formed penis and vagina, however there are some which result in under-development forms of both. Meanwhile, the latter form does have real-life equivalents, most prominently seen in two places: certain intersex people with Gynecomastia and trans women who have begun Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) but who have not undergone bottom surgery (surgery to replace their penis with a vagina, essentially.)
Regardless, whichever form is portrayed it still largely plays into the fetishization of both groups (seen as a hot fantasy by certain unpleasant people on the internet), because of how similar most portrayals of futanari are to said real-life perceptions. This is especially frustrating because it has led a large number of trans artists' drawings to be labelled futanari when they were simply trying to draw trans women in porn.
I'm not entirely sure how the terminology goes nowadays in Japan, unfortunately. It's possible futanari is still the common term for intersex people over there, it's possible some other term has been invented/borrowed. That said, I am a bit more familiar with Japanese terminology for trans people, and while I could see futanari potentially being used for a trans person it feels unlikely. More often you'll tend to see either "男の娘" (otokonoko, basically boygirl, although often used to describe cross-dressing too (which itself is sometimes confused as the same thing both here and there)) or I have seen some use "トランスジェンダー" (lit. transgender in katakana.) That said, in the West most trans women I know consider the term futa/futanari to be fairly offensive, comparable to a term like trap or sh*male (myself included.)
I am sure I glossed over some stuff here and there, since gender and public understanding thereof is a complicated subject even before accounting for differences in language, but that's what I mean both wrt when I talk about women with dicks that are not futa, and also my comments about the genre writ large.
Lilliwyt
May 1, 2021 9:06PM
anyway, the better thing to do for this case in particular is to ask for a tag change and see how it goes.
FluffyCow
May 1, 2021 9:32PM
The topic has a lot of nuance and different perspectives to it. A few of my thoughts here, sometimes it just comes down to people wanting to see something like for example a woman with a penis, and in those cases I don't think it's even a fetishization of trans people. More so people sometimes simply enjoy two things, and want them together. Other times artists don't know how to draw two female characters having sex together, because "how do two women have sex?" seems to be a mystery of the universe apparently, and they just draw a penis on one of the women, without even thinking of it as a trans topic.
Also I think most or even all of this goes waaaaaaay back, people shouldn't pin the origins of this sexualization and exploration of sexuality that sometimes or even often dips into fetishization, on Modern Japan or the Modern Western world IMO. Go back way further with some portrayals of a few things like Greek myth with characters like Hermaphroditus, and also Hermaphrodites. I think ultimately sexuality is complicated and people are really horny a lot of the time, you combine that with guilt and shame from one's self and others, religion and so fourth. Sexuality gets complicated for many.
Also just in case, I'm sorry if I said anything ignorant or offensive, I'm definitely not claiming to be an expert myself, and I don't desire to upset anyone. Sharing some of my personal thoughts, and I'm hoping that I'm being respectful enough.
Edit: Thinking about it, a forum topic about this might be the best place for this conversation to go further, as a thought. I'm honestly not sure if we're getting super off topic at this point or not.
last edited at May 1, 2021 10:26PM
fossilizer
May 1, 2021 10:59PM
Either way it needs to be tagged. A lot of us don’t wanna see it.
SpencerSDH
May 1, 2021 11:19PM
@Fuwafu It's a good thing then that futanari isn't trans, nor is it even remotely close to what intersex genitalia even look like (which is inconsistent due to it's nature as a birth defect), so if anyone takes offense, then that's on them (hence the "taken" part). As for the other words you have mentioned, these are terms used to describe porn. You're not going to make societal headway by doing something as futile as trying to erase words from the internet.
It really blows me away how offended people get that other people find them sexually attractive. You may have insecurities about your appearance from a lifelong affliction, but that doesn't mean that other people see you as negatively as you see your self. There are plenty of trans people out there that are more than happy to strut their stuff for an online audience. They don't seem to be all that offended by this "hyper-sexualization", which I very much appreciate.
Spend less time obsessing over what people jerk off too, and more time making sure the children of tomorrow are more accepting than the adults of today. Otherwise, the only thing you can do is control what people say, and how they think, and I hope the negative implications of that don't need to be explained.
last edited at May 1, 2021 11:33PM
Tamahime
May 1, 2021 11:50PM
Fuwafu: Thanks for taking the time to share your perspective. I understand a bit better now.
As for the debate/controversy aspects, I think FluffyCow is right and it's best taken to the forum or Discord. Not least because it'll be more easily found than on this random pic's comments.
PeoYS2122
May 2, 2021 1:07PM
What happen with this comment section...
DY4Y
May 2, 2021 1:53PM
^Internet shit
MagiMaki
May 3, 2021 4:53AM
Let girls have dicks, magic or otherwise. Not everything is about real life issues. And nobody has to protect fictional characters from people finding them attractive. Plant some trees, help your family or something. Anything is more useful than complaining every single time.
Kuma The Bear Apr 30, 2021 9:25PM
They are playing rock-paper-
saveon Apr 30, 2021 11:50PM
I'm pretty sure this is futa
Royyam May 1, 2021 1:04AM
Empezamos bien
ClaudeSP89 May 1, 2021 1:12AM
Grind
Meoka19 May 1, 2021 7:05AM
.... I’m pretty sure this is futa...
Lilliwyt May 1, 2021 7:37AM
That's a hell of an uncofortable position if it was Futa. It's not if it's scissoring. I don't see any hint it's Futa.
DY4Y May 1, 2021 8:18AM
^The bit of skin in the crotch area looks like a dick if you squint. And futa doesn't really look more uncomfortable to me than if it was normal scissoring
Fuwafu May 1, 2021 12:19PM
It seems pretty unlikely that Reyna doesn't have a dick here (unless she's got one hell of a left thigh), but given that the artist linked in the source goes by any pronouns and has recently retweeted other art of girls with penii that specifically request against using the term futa, I don't know that I would necessarily assume that this image is intended as such.
DY4Y May 1, 2021 1:05PM
^Oo, trans Reyna? that's even better
last edited at May 1, 2021 1:09PM
Fuwafu May 1, 2021 3:14PM
^ I don't know, since the artist never said one way or the other, but it's certainly not out of the question.
That said, I think it's a problem when art of women with dicks is instantly assumed to be futa (for what little futa as a genre can exist outside of weird hyper-fetishization of trans women and/or intersex people.)
DY4Y May 1, 2021 3:34PM
^Personally I tend to label things trans in my head, but have gone through so many arguments with internet weirdoes that I just default to saying futa in most cases. But sometimes there's rays of light like Lavender Incubus or possibly this artist which is fun
to avoid making this get too off topic this'll be my last bit
Tamahime May 1, 2021 6:29PM
Can someone explain for ignorant people like me what the difference is between "futanari" and "women with dicks (but not futa)"? I guess I always just thought the former was the Japanese term for the latter.
FWIW the woman on top here definitely has a dick. There's no other conclusion based on the way crotches work.
Fuwafu May 1, 2021 8:35PM
^ It is a bit of a complicated topic but I will try to break it down to the best of my understanding, apologies/warning in advance for the long comment and a bit of medical talk. Worth noting that this is my perspective and understanding, I am sure others would feel differently.
The term futanari taken literally just means "two forms"/"two parts", although it was generally used to refer to people that were androgynous or had both a dick and a vagina, what would at the time be known as a (fairly insensitive and largely outdated) term like hermaphrodite. However, the term generally was not synonymous with porn like it nowadays is (especially in the West), and mostly just meant a figure was "somewhere in-between" so to speak.
Eventually, around the late-20th century, some ero artists began to latch onto the idea for porn (some sources I have seen even specifically claim that transgender porn from the U.S. inspired a bunch of the earliest futanari comics, but I am not certain if it truly began the trend.) Fast forward several years (plus countless porn manga finding their way to the West) and the term has taken on a modern meaning that is almost completely sexual (at least over here, I do not know about its use in Japan but it is certainly more sexual than it once was.) That modern meaning largely falls into two categories: a person with fully-developed breasts, vagina, and penis, or a person with fully-developed breasts and a penis.
The former doesn't really have a real-life comparison, although it largely plays into an inaccurate stereotype of intersex people (the more respectful modern term for a number of differences linked to uncommon configurations of the sex chromosomes.) To my understanding, there are no common conditions which could cause someone to develop both a fully-formed penis and vagina, however there are some which result in under-development forms of both. Meanwhile, the latter form does have real-life equivalents, most prominently seen in two places: certain intersex people with Gynecomastia and trans women who have begun Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) but who have not undergone bottom surgery (surgery to replace their penis with a vagina, essentially.)
Regardless, whichever form is portrayed it still largely plays into the fetishization of both groups (seen as a hot fantasy by certain unpleasant people on the internet), because of how similar most portrayals of futanari are to said real-life perceptions. This is especially frustrating because it has led a large number of trans artists' drawings to be labelled futanari when they were simply trying to draw trans women in porn.
I'm not entirely sure how the terminology goes nowadays in Japan, unfortunately. It's possible futanari is still the common term for intersex people over there, it's possible some other term has been invented/borrowed. That said, I am a bit more familiar with Japanese terminology for trans people, and while I could see futanari potentially being used for a trans person it feels unlikely. More often you'll tend to see either "男の娘" (otokonoko, basically boygirl, although often used to describe cross-dressing too (which itself is sometimes confused as the same thing both here and there)) or I have seen some use "トランスジェンダー" (lit. transgender in katakana.) That said, in the West most trans women I know consider the term futa/futanari to be fairly offensive, comparable to a term like trap or sh*male (myself included.)
I am sure I glossed over some stuff here and there, since gender and public understanding thereof is a complicated subject even before accounting for differences in language, but that's what I mean both wrt when I talk about women with dicks that are not futa, and also my comments about the genre writ large.
Lilliwyt May 1, 2021 9:06PM
anyway, the better thing to do for this case in particular is to ask for a tag change and see how it goes.
FluffyCow May 1, 2021 9:32PM
The topic has a lot of nuance and different perspectives to it. A few of my thoughts here, sometimes it just comes down to people wanting to see something like for example a woman with a penis, and in those cases I don't think it's even a fetishization of trans people. More so people sometimes simply enjoy two things, and want them together. Other times artists don't know how to draw two female characters having sex together, because "how do two women have sex?" seems to be a mystery of the universe apparently, and they just draw a penis on one of the women, without even thinking of it as a trans topic.
Also I think most or even all of this goes waaaaaaay back, people shouldn't pin the origins of this sexualization and exploration of sexuality that sometimes or even often dips into fetishization, on Modern Japan or the Modern Western world IMO. Go back way further with some portrayals of a few things like Greek myth with characters like Hermaphroditus, and also Hermaphrodites. I think ultimately sexuality is complicated and people are really horny a lot of the time, you combine that with guilt and shame from one's self and others, religion and so fourth. Sexuality gets complicated for many.
Also just in case, I'm sorry if I said anything ignorant or offensive, I'm definitely not claiming to be an expert myself, and I don't desire to upset anyone. Sharing some of my personal thoughts, and I'm hoping that I'm being respectful enough.
Edit: Thinking about it, a forum topic about this might be the best place for this conversation to go further, as a thought. I'm honestly not sure if we're getting super off topic at this point or not.
last edited at May 1, 2021 10:26PM
fossilizer May 1, 2021 10:59PM
Either way it needs to be tagged. A lot of us don’t wanna see it.
SpencerSDH May 1, 2021 11:19PM
@Fuwafu It's a good thing then that futanari isn't trans, nor is it even remotely close to what intersex genitalia even look like (which is inconsistent due to it's nature as a birth defect), so if anyone takes offense, then that's on them (hence the "taken" part). As for the other words you have mentioned, these are terms used to describe porn. You're not going to make societal headway by doing something as futile as trying to erase words from the internet.
It really blows me away how offended people get that other people find them sexually attractive. You may have insecurities about your appearance from a lifelong affliction, but that doesn't mean that other people see you as negatively as you see your self. There are plenty of trans people out there that are more than happy to strut their stuff for an online audience. They don't seem to be all that offended by this "hyper-sexualization", which I very much appreciate.
Spend less time obsessing over what people jerk off too, and more time making sure the children of tomorrow are more accepting than the adults of today. Otherwise, the only thing you can do is control what people say, and how they think, and I hope the negative implications of that don't need to be explained.
last edited at May 1, 2021 11:33PM
Tamahime May 1, 2021 11:50PM
Fuwafu: Thanks for taking the time to share your perspective. I understand a bit better now.
As for the debate/controversy aspects, I think FluffyCow is right and it's best taken to the forum or Discord. Not least because it'll be more easily found than on this random pic's comments.
PeoYS2122 May 2, 2021 1:07PM
What happen with this comment section...
DY4Y May 2, 2021 1:53PM
^Internet shit
MagiMaki May 3, 2021 4:53AM
Let girls have dicks, magic or otherwise. Not everything is about real life issues. And nobody has to protect fictional characters from people finding them attractive. Plant some trees, help your family or something. Anything is more useful than complaining every single time.