"need a coming of age movie but its clara and #takamori in the japanese countryside"
Shuryo_CN
Apr 23, 2021 9:18PM
Clara Mori BABYYYYY!!!
Adawal
Apr 23, 2021 9:28PM
Is Clara getting more and more popular within the artist crowd or is it just me lmao
Hauteclere
Apr 23, 2021 9:45PM
Dad's home!
Aquwin
Apr 23, 2021 10:07PM
I've been wondering why is it takamori isn't kara's last name kusatori
Lilliwyt
Apr 23, 2021 10:29PM
^ Kusatori is a nickname given by Calli to Kiara, it's literally mean "Shitty bird". Kiara's last name is Takanashi hence Takamori
MagicalGirlCiri
Apr 23, 2021 10:50PM
^^^^ It's probably because Calli and Kiara started playing "It Takes Two" this week.
25252iykyk
Apr 23, 2021 11:08PM
Clara’s hair looks like it’s glowing and fridging hell if this isn’t domestic as fridge.
Aquwin
Apr 23, 2021 11:32PM
@Lilliwyt I see I feel like I have heard takanashi before. And I knew about the shitty bird meaning but I still really thought it was her last name this whole time. Calli just stuck kusatori in my head I guess.
myrrhmidon
Apr 24, 2021 1:05AM
Maybe you heard it from the Black Rock Shooter anime due to the character Yomi Takanashi:
Her surname, "Takanashi", is written with the kanji "小鳥遊" for "little bird play". Mato, not knowing how to read Yomi's written surname correctly, refers to her as "kotori-asobi" (小鳥遊), which literally means "little birds play". Yomi later explains to her that her last name is read as "Takanashi" (鷹無し), which means "no hawks", and tells her that her surname stems from the saying that "When the hawks are away, little birds play".
Black Rock Shooter's characters were designed by huke who is also the artist (papa) for Kiara.
last edited at Apr 24, 2021 1:06AM
TheRaptureKing
Apr 24, 2021 1:55AM
I want someone to show Kiara this and the website since she does want to do a read along with Cali.
Clara is so cute....
Papa Calli bought something for her?
kuudere
Apr 24, 2021 5:15AM
I loved TakaMori as much as I love NoeFure and crossick, but you know when you already have a background about these two irl and you'd come to know that neither of them are in "that" kind of relationship is just meh for me. I still watch them but I don't ship them anymore, it don't give me the feels and excitement anymore. UGH MY KOKORO, I HEAR IT CRACKING, YAMETE
last edited at Apr 24, 2021 5:16AM
almighty
Apr 24, 2021 5:48AM
heart warm
TctyaDDK
Apr 24, 2021 6:33AM
^^ That's why we should always separate the performers from the characters. Otherwise it breaks immersion and greatly reduces our enjoyment. It would be nice to have the same good thing going both in fiction and real life, but the world is unfortunately not that perfect. Also, the very job description of acting is pretending to be something you're not, so that's kind of expected.
last edited at Apr 24, 2021 6:34AM
BV
Apr 24, 2021 7:33AM
@Aquwin
@Lilliwyt
Isn't it "Kusutori" and not "Kusatori"?
That aside, this is such a beautiful painting.
Aquwin
Apr 24, 2021 7:43AM
^no idea just spelled it like i hear it
DY4Y
Apr 24, 2021 9:44AM
^^"Ku*so*tori", spelled phonetically.
YuuKiDB
Apr 24, 2021 10:20AM
^^^It's Kuso(shit)tori(bird), kusatori means grass bird
FluffyCow
Apr 24, 2021 12:14PM
@TctyaDDK Yup I 100% agree with everything you said.
Enjoy the ship between these characters as a ship between these characters, and don't worry about the real life counterparts. Plus we barely know anything about their real life counter parts, and that doesn't really matter because we're here for their characters. Though it's good to remember that there are real people behind the characters, and respect them. Notably they are both fine with the ship, plus Kiara started it herself and promotes it.
There also seems to be a genuine friendship between them at least, one that Kiara has cried on stream due to at least a couple times.
Another way to put it is like a theater play. Romeo and Juliet are the ones in a romance, not the actors. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the romance of Romeo and Juliet, just in the same way it doesn't stop me from enjoying these two.
last edited at Apr 24, 2021 12:23PM
kuudere
Apr 24, 2021 12:26PM
^ I enjoy them as a ship as much as I enjoy AquaXShion pairing, maybe I spent too much on the internet that the ship literally sunk in my eyes that behind these actors there's something dirty going on behind those curtains. It would be nice if they are really friends irl not just for a show-off or hypocrisy. But oh yeah, who am I to judge and no one knows if what I read were real. Wishing them luck this year and more success.
Dark_Tzitzimine
Apr 24, 2021 1:06PM
Anytime you see claims that Kiara and Calli aren't besties IRL just think about this:
Calli not only had a Kiara reference in her debut song, she also has animated and narrated Kiara's intro short, she animated Kiara's first MV and even has a members only emote for Kiara
They hanged out a lot when Kiara was in Japan and were each other's confidants
Went on a spa date together shortly after debuting
Calli spent thousands of dollars to take Kiara on a week-long vacation, just the two of them
Both made valentine chocolates for each other
Calli hand made matching bracelets for them after Kiara jokingly suggested it on their last off-collab stream
Per Kiara's own account, Calli was incredibly clingy and depressed when she left Japan
And all of that is just what has been publicly said on stream. You have to be a special brand of jaded to believe all of that is just a very elaborate play to squeeze money from the viewers.
last edited at Apr 24, 2021 2:59PM
FluffyCow
Apr 24, 2021 1:48PM
I agree with Dark Tzitzimine here. I think you're being weirdly cynical and paranoid Kuudere. They're not trying to play up being in a romantic relationship or anything, the ship clearly since day 1 has just been a for fun thing between their characters. However they've always had good interactions together as friends. If you want to believe nothing is sincere about them, go for it, but it's definitely a really weird take in my eyes.
Dark_Tzitzimine
Apr 24, 2021 3:01PM
Personally though I do believe Kiara would be more than happy to actually date Calli
ninryu
Apr 24, 2021 4:04PM
The real teetee was the friendship we made along the way.
Hauteclere
Apr 24, 2021 4:26PM
I sometimes think Calli and Kiara may actually be dating and it's Calli's tsundere act that's happening for the camera. There's not actually any strict proof that they aren't, and Dark_Tzitzimine's list up there is true...and pretty telling. And I outright refuse to believe Kiara is straight. Even Calli has retweeted TakaMori fanart and occasionally used some for her collab thumbnails.
It seems a little bit weird to me to stop shipping them just because they've stated they're besties irl. We've worked with way less.
almond
Apr 24, 2021 5:25PM
i take the view that calli's actress and kiara's actress are friends, and play characters that are in love. one is professional, the other is gay. no problems. i'm not invested or interested in the relationship thing, anyway.
if the actresses didn't like each other then obviously things wouldn't have been done like this. i don't actually know how the characters are created but i'm assuming that the people who are going to play them are consulted so that they get something that they can naturally and spontaneously portray. there is likely tests and back and forth until everyone involved is satisfied.
The immaculate
Apr 24, 2021 5:36PM
Haha this whole time I thought it was a solid fact that they’re irl besties or at the very least friends. I’m not an avid fan and I’ve only followed them on Twitter. I’m surprised that it might not be so.
Dark_Tzitzimine
Apr 24, 2021 5:37PM
They've both said that the whole Takamori thing is something they came up with on their own and that management liked it so they (management) started to push it officially.
And now that I went back and read the list, is pretty curious that the one putting the most effort with her actions is Calli while Kiara is the one pushing it in-character. No wonder Kiara feels that Calli doesn't miss her now that she left Japan.
TheAlmightyUltimus
Apr 24, 2021 5:44PM
Clara, huh? My fanfiction senses are tingling, urging me to write...
Cute pic btw, and really pretty
FluffyCow
Apr 24, 2021 6:54PM
@The immaculate Eh I wouldn't over think it personally.
@Dark_Tzitzimine On a stream that came later Calli did say she misses Kiara. Which made her really happy. Calli is also absurdly busy from what I understand, so she might not be as involved due to just being swamped with projects. I've also heard people saying that it was frustrating when Kiara said Calli probably doesn't miss her, because that's obviously not true. People also believed that the doubt was mainly stemming from Kiara's self confidence/esteem problems where she's sometimes overly hard on herself, rather than Calli not missing her. Which again later when Calli and Kiara were talking on a stream Calli said she misses Kiara. Some people misunderstood what Calli said and tried to spread it around but I rather not go into that nonsense further. Ultimately I think their friendship is fine, it's just they're both busy, living in different countries now, but can still talk and collab with each other.
As I said previously it's probably better to not over think it, all we can do is work with the information we have but we don't actually know either of them in person. Plus they said they have a bunch of collabs planned with each other, so just kickback, relax, and enjoy it.
last edited at Apr 24, 2021 7:15PM
Royyam
Apr 24, 2021 7:02PM
CUTE
Dark_Tzitzimine
Apr 24, 2021 8:58PM
@FluffyCow Well, I was mostly thinking about how that list perfectly depicts the way each girl shows they care for the other. Calli is someone who lets her actions speak for her while Kiara is the type that wants to be continuously talking with others to show their appreciation and to feel appreciated. Thus the misunderstanding from Kiara's side.
last edited at Apr 25, 2021 2:12PM
FluffyCow
Apr 24, 2021 9:15PM
@Dark_Tzitzimine Ah okay, apologies if I misunderstood some. Yeah that makes sense. Well at least it sounds like Kiara is feeling better now that Calli has time to do collabs now that she got the birthday EP and the like finished.
Sweet Dangus McGee
Apr 25, 2021 1:02AM
Normally I think its pretty weird and usually shitty to ship real people with audiences like streamers or musicians or whatever but the thing about vtubers, or at least Vtubers with a capital V, that makes it so different is like, the distance between the Person streaming and the Persona they're playing. And its a meaningful difference, the awareness the audience has that these anime women are a character being put on to a much bigger extent than most other streamers, who have to maintain a distance or else fall into an unhealthy parasocial relationship that we've all seen get only ever end poorly. And vtubers are also definitely feeding heavily into that parasocial relationship building, but that's all part of the relationship here.
I know the obvious comparison here is the idol industry, but honestly I think vtubers are most akin to Wrestlers. They come in to the audience with all these pre-written gimmicks and basic storylines planned and then come out to perform these characters to their audience for hours on end in kayfabe. And sure these personas are probably inspired by the real person, we can assume they have input into who they turn out to be/how much stays in kayfabe and what follows them around, and sometimes real life gets intertwined with the Storylines like Kiara visiting Callie or Crossick forming a real relationship, but just like we know when the Undertaker takes off his hat and becomes Mark William Callaway he isn't out here summoning skeletons to defeat brock lesner or whatever the fuck, we know the actress playing Kiara probably isn't herself a bird woman pining for death incarnate. Of course there will always be a fascination to peer behind the mask, to see for yourself whats real and what really is just kayfabe, but at the end of the day its a weird art form and we're just here to watch sweaty dudes beat the shit out of each other and/or anime girls flirt with each other in Minecraft. TLDR No matter how much we speculate vtubers are ultimately just a performance and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, recognizing this will only make for a better experience for everyone.
(though i hope the vtuber industry doesn't also have all the horrible labor and racism issues the WWE has!)
FluffyCow
Apr 25, 2021 1:24AM
^That's all well and good, but that doesn't mean Vtubers also can't be actual friends with eachother either. Yes it's a blend of real life person and persona, as any entertainment personality is, even the most simple youtubers. However there are genuine aspects to them, and I don't believe that's getting into a parasocial relationship to acknowledge that either.
Also yes there are character elements they play up, and narratives entertainers such as these like to tell, but Vtubers also aren't entirely scripted either. Writing out scripts for hours of streaming 5ish days of the week would be honestly absurd.
I understand I think most of your view points, and agree with the general gist of what you're saying, but I don't fully agree with you either, as it sounds a bit cynical and jaded to me. Again, I strongly believe that I'm someone who can distance myself from entertainers. I don't feel attached to them or like I'm in a relationship with them, or that I actually know them. I see them ultimately as people with unknown lives, that have a streaming job and have a streaming personality that's still apart of who they are. Just like anybody and everybody out there that's been making Youtube videos for over 10 years. We'll never actually know the person, but that doesn't mean everything they're saying is entirely scripted and/or "just" a performance to make money and get views.
last edited at Apr 25, 2021 1:39AM
SF
Apr 25, 2021 1:50AM
I wouldn't exactly say that Vtubers are just like Wrestlers. With wrestling, EVERYTHING that happens in the ring is completely scripted while in Vtuber streams the only act is the backstories that they come up and the voice that they put on (hell with Calli and Ina I don't think they even put on a voice lol). A lot of the things Vtubers say and do on stream is genuine. Like c'mon, you really think Amelia is acting when being toxic in her Apex streams?
Dark_Tzitzimine
Apr 25, 2021 1:55AM
The comparison with wrestlers is certainly an apt one but at the same time, I feel that is underestimating how much influence the actresses have over the character and overestimating how much they're committed to the kayfabe. Most of the girls have dropped the idea of their character and are playing themselves to different degrees every time they stream.
last edited at Apr 25, 2021 1:56AM
Sweet Dangus McGee
Apr 25, 2021 9:20AM
no no no see you misunderstand, thats exactly my point! When I make the comparison I don't mean to say "oh its all fake, its all scripted, just accept that, grr" but to bring kayfabe in as a way to understand whats going on here. No I don't think its scripted. We know that the actresses have a lot of input into their personas, and are no doubt mostly filtering their own genuine selves through the lens of that persona. But think of the dedication that takes, to do that 4-9 hours straight however many days every week! Particularly the ones who're doing a voice too. Like, in wrestling which is a whole other level of manufactured content I'll give you that, I think the thing is that no matter how much booking you put on someone or how favorable you want them to be seen by the audience no matter how good of a gimmick, it all comes down to the strength of the performer to make it work. Like, think of how memorable the Macho Man is so many years later, or like those fuckin, Da Vinky twins. Even if the vtubers persona is almost entirely 90 percent themself with a little gimmick, its ultimately still A Performance like anything is when you have an audience like that. And like I think I'm mainly talking about The Big-to-Medium Vtuber Companies here, the ones Engaging With Quintessential Vtuberness, not like small independent streamers who're just adding a little persona and doing their regular thing. Honestly this is already what streamers are doing but to the next level.
And this is why like, fan engagement like shipping and backstory is encouraged and made in a way that isn't creepy the way it is with like, those gross minecraft streamers or whatever. Because of the distance that is made, because there is a real effort to protect the identities of the actresses playing them, what people are engaging with here is this remarkable concoction of the original gimmick, the anime woman on screen, the streamer's personality being filtered behind the persona to varying degrees, the layer of performance, the streamer's genuine self as expressed through performance, and the context of the wider Culture of Vtubers around it.
And I don't think that's cynical at all! Rather, it's a pretty remarkable thing, no?
FluffyCow
Apr 25, 2021 12:33PM
^Thanks for explaining more! I understand your views better now, and yeah you don't sound as cynical as I originally thought. It is honestly very remarkable how it all comes together. The only thing I can really add is that big company Vtubers also have a lot of leeway with their personas and how they choose to act, in a similar fashion as indie Vtubers. Main thing is that there are some lines they can't cross and a certain amount of red tape they have to deal with, basically the company owns the rights to their character and they have tighter restrictions while also gaining more protection/legal help and promotion. Which isn't too bad of a trade off honestly, since there's various restrictions every successful entertainer has to place on themselves. Being in a public spotlight and having everything you say scrutinized can be a swift demise if an entertainer plays their cards wrong any day of the week.
Anyhow, I think this has honestly been a good conversation, thanks!
Edit: One other thing is that joining a company does have some risks as well, but I imagine having professional legal help with matters such as DMCA must be such a relief. The DMCA strike nonsense seems to only be getting worse, and screwing content creators more and more. It's really unfortunate how things like that are so harmful.
last edited at Apr 25, 2021 12:44PM
yoyoo222
Apr 29, 2021 12:36AM
you guys put more thought in this than any of them are
drpepperfan Apr 23, 2021 9:14PM
"need a coming of age movie but its clara and #takamori in the japanese countryside"
Shuryo_CN Apr 23, 2021 9:18PM
Clara Mori BABYYYYY!!!
Adawal Apr 23, 2021 9:28PM
Is Clara getting more and more popular within the artist crowd or is it just me lmao
Hauteclere Apr 23, 2021 9:45PM
Dad's home!
Aquwin Apr 23, 2021 10:07PM
I've been wondering why is it takamori isn't kara's last name kusatori
Lilliwyt Apr 23, 2021 10:29PM
^ Kusatori is a nickname given by Calli to Kiara, it's literally mean "Shitty bird". Kiara's last name is Takanashi hence Takamori
MagicalGirlCiri Apr 23, 2021 10:50PM
^^^^ It's probably because Calli and Kiara started playing "It Takes Two" this week.
25252iykyk Apr 23, 2021 11:08PM
Clara’s hair looks like it’s glowing and fridging hell if this isn’t domestic as fridge.
Aquwin Apr 23, 2021 11:32PM
@Lilliwyt I see I feel like I have heard takanashi before. And I knew about the shitty bird meaning but I still really thought it was her last name this whole time. Calli just stuck kusatori in my head I guess.
myrrhmidon Apr 24, 2021 1:05AM
Maybe you heard it from the Black Rock Shooter anime due to the character Yomi Takanashi:
Black Rock Shooter's characters were designed by huke who is also the artist (papa) for Kiara.
last edited at Apr 24, 2021 1:06AM
TheRaptureKing Apr 24, 2021 1:55AM
I want someone to show Kiara this and the website since she does want to do a read along with Cali.
FluffyCow Apr 24, 2021 2:36AM
^Well I have at least one gift for you, here
Takasaki Reika Apr 24, 2021 2:59AM
Clara is so cute....
Papa Calli bought something for her?
kuudere Apr 24, 2021 5:15AM
I loved TakaMori as much as I love NoeFure and crossick, but you know when you already have a background about these two irl and you'd come to know that neither of them are in "that" kind of relationship is just meh for me. I still watch them but I don't ship them anymore, it don't give me the feels and excitement anymore. UGH MY KOKORO, I HEAR IT CRACKING, YAMETE
last edited at Apr 24, 2021 5:16AM
almighty Apr 24, 2021 5:48AM
heart warm
TctyaDDK Apr 24, 2021 6:33AM
^^ That's why we should always separate the performers from the characters. Otherwise it breaks immersion and greatly reduces our enjoyment. It would be nice to have the same good thing going both in fiction and real life, but the world is unfortunately not that perfect. Also, the very job description of acting is pretending to be something you're not, so that's kind of expected.
last edited at Apr 24, 2021 6:34AM
BV Apr 24, 2021 7:33AM
@Aquwin
@Lilliwyt
Isn't it "Kusutori" and not "Kusatori"?
That aside, this is such a beautiful painting.
Aquwin Apr 24, 2021 7:43AM
^no idea just spelled it like i hear it
DY4Y Apr 24, 2021 9:44AM
^^"Ku*so*tori", spelled phonetically.
YuuKiDB Apr 24, 2021 10:20AM
^^^It's Kuso(shit)tori(bird), kusatori means grass bird
FluffyCow Apr 24, 2021 12:14PM
@TctyaDDK Yup I 100% agree with everything you said.
Enjoy the ship between these characters as a ship between these characters, and don't worry about the real life counterparts. Plus we barely know anything about their real life counter parts, and that doesn't really matter because we're here for their characters. Though it's good to remember that there are real people behind the characters, and respect them. Notably they are both fine with the ship, plus Kiara started it herself and promotes it.
There also seems to be a genuine friendship between them at least, one that Kiara has cried on stream due to at least a couple times.
Another way to put it is like a theater play. Romeo and Juliet are the ones in a romance, not the actors. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the romance of Romeo and Juliet, just in the same way it doesn't stop me from enjoying these two.
last edited at Apr 24, 2021 12:23PM
kuudere Apr 24, 2021 12:26PM
^ I enjoy them as a ship as much as I enjoy AquaXShion pairing, maybe I spent too much on the internet that the ship literally sunk in my eyes that behind these actors there's something dirty going on behind those curtains. It would be nice if they are really friends irl not just for a show-off or hypocrisy. But oh yeah, who am I to judge and no one knows if what I read were real. Wishing them luck this year and more success.
Dark_Tzitzimine Apr 24, 2021 1:06PM
Anytime you see claims that Kiara and Calli aren't besties IRL just think about this:
And all of that is just what has been publicly said on stream. You have to be a special brand of jaded to believe all of that is just a very elaborate play to squeeze money from the viewers.
last edited at Apr 24, 2021 2:59PM
FluffyCow Apr 24, 2021 1:48PM
I agree with Dark Tzitzimine here. I think you're being weirdly cynical and paranoid Kuudere. They're not trying to play up being in a romantic relationship or anything, the ship clearly since day 1 has just been a for fun thing between their characters. However they've always had good interactions together as friends. If you want to believe nothing is sincere about them, go for it, but it's definitely a really weird take in my eyes.
Dark_Tzitzimine Apr 24, 2021 3:01PM
Personally though I do believe Kiara would be more than happy to actually date Calli
ninryu Apr 24, 2021 4:04PM
The real teetee was the friendship we made along the way.
Hauteclere Apr 24, 2021 4:26PM
I sometimes think Calli and Kiara may actually be dating and it's Calli's tsundere act that's happening for the camera. There's not actually any strict proof that they aren't, and Dark_Tzitzimine's list up there is true...and pretty telling. And I outright refuse to believe Kiara is straight. Even Calli has retweeted TakaMori fanart and occasionally used some for her collab thumbnails.
It seems a little bit weird to me to stop shipping them just because they've stated they're besties irl. We've worked with way less.
almond Apr 24, 2021 5:25PM
i take the view that calli's actress and kiara's actress are friends, and play characters that are in love. one is professional, the other is gay. no problems. i'm not invested or interested in the relationship thing, anyway.
if the actresses didn't like each other then obviously things wouldn't have been done like this. i don't actually know how the characters are created but i'm assuming that the people who are going to play them are consulted so that they get something that they can naturally and spontaneously portray. there is likely tests and back and forth until everyone involved is satisfied.
The immaculate Apr 24, 2021 5:36PM
Haha this whole time I thought it was a solid fact that they’re irl besties or at the very least friends. I’m not an avid fan and I’ve only followed them on Twitter. I’m surprised that it might not be so.
Dark_Tzitzimine Apr 24, 2021 5:37PM
They've both said that the whole Takamori thing is something they came up with on their own and that management liked it so they (management) started to push it officially.
And now that I went back and read the list, is pretty curious that the one putting the most effort with her actions is Calli while Kiara is the one pushing it in-character. No wonder Kiara feels that Calli doesn't miss her now that she left Japan.
TheAlmightyUltimus Apr 24, 2021 5:44PM
Clara, huh? My fanfiction senses are tingling, urging me to write...
Cute pic btw, and really pretty
FluffyCow Apr 24, 2021 6:54PM
@The immaculate Eh I wouldn't over think it personally.
@Dark_Tzitzimine On a stream that came later Calli did say she misses Kiara. Which made her really happy. Calli is also absurdly busy from what I understand, so she might not be as involved due to just being swamped with projects. I've also heard people saying that it was frustrating when Kiara said Calli probably doesn't miss her, because that's obviously not true. People also believed that the doubt was mainly stemming from Kiara's self confidence/esteem problems where she's sometimes overly hard on herself, rather than Calli not missing her. Which again later when Calli and Kiara were talking on a stream Calli said she misses Kiara. Some people misunderstood what Calli said and tried to spread it around but I rather not go into that nonsense further. Ultimately I think their friendship is fine, it's just they're both busy, living in different countries now, but can still talk and collab with each other.
As I said previously it's probably better to not over think it, all we can do is work with the information we have but we don't actually know either of them in person. Plus they said they have a bunch of collabs planned with each other, so just kickback, relax, and enjoy it.
last edited at Apr 24, 2021 7:15PM
Royyam Apr 24, 2021 7:02PM
CUTE
Dark_Tzitzimine Apr 24, 2021 8:58PM
@FluffyCow Well, I was mostly thinking about how that list perfectly depicts the way each girl shows they care for the other. Calli is someone who lets her actions speak for her while Kiara is the type that wants to be continuously talking with others to show their appreciation and to feel appreciated. Thus the misunderstanding from Kiara's side.
last edited at Apr 25, 2021 2:12PM
FluffyCow Apr 24, 2021 9:15PM
@Dark_Tzitzimine Ah okay, apologies if I misunderstood some. Yeah that makes sense. Well at least it sounds like Kiara is feeling better now that Calli has time to do collabs now that she got the birthday EP and the like finished.
Sweet Dangus McGee Apr 25, 2021 1:02AM
Normally I think its pretty weird and usually shitty to ship real people with audiences like streamers or musicians or whatever but the thing about vtubers, or at least Vtubers with a capital V, that makes it so different is like, the distance between the Person streaming and the Persona they're playing. And its a meaningful difference, the awareness the audience has that these anime women are a character being put on to a much bigger extent than most other streamers, who have to maintain a distance or else fall into an unhealthy parasocial relationship that we've all seen get only ever end poorly. And vtubers are also definitely feeding heavily into that parasocial relationship building, but that's all part of the relationship here.
I know the obvious comparison here is the idol industry, but honestly I think vtubers are most akin to Wrestlers. They come in to the audience with all these pre-written gimmicks and basic storylines planned and then come out to perform these characters to their audience for hours on end in kayfabe. And sure these personas are probably inspired by the real person, we can assume they have input into who they turn out to be/how much stays in kayfabe and what follows them around, and sometimes real life gets intertwined with the Storylines like Kiara visiting Callie or Crossick forming a real relationship, but just like we know when the Undertaker takes off his hat and becomes Mark William Callaway he isn't out here summoning skeletons to defeat brock lesner or whatever the fuck, we know the actress playing Kiara probably isn't herself a bird woman pining for death incarnate. Of course there will always be a fascination to peer behind the mask, to see for yourself whats real and what really is just kayfabe, but at the end of the day its a weird art form and we're just here to watch sweaty dudes beat the shit out of each other and/or anime girls flirt with each other in Minecraft. TLDR No matter how much we speculate vtubers are ultimately just a performance and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, recognizing this will only make for a better experience for everyone.
(though i hope the vtuber industry doesn't also have all the horrible labor and racism issues the WWE has!)
FluffyCow Apr 25, 2021 1:24AM
^That's all well and good, but that doesn't mean Vtubers also can't be actual friends with eachother either. Yes it's a blend of real life person and persona, as any entertainment personality is, even the most simple youtubers. However there are genuine aspects to them, and I don't believe that's getting into a parasocial relationship to acknowledge that either.
Also yes there are character elements they play up, and narratives entertainers such as these like to tell, but Vtubers also aren't entirely scripted either. Writing out scripts for hours of streaming 5ish days of the week would be honestly absurd.
I understand I think most of your view points, and agree with the general gist of what you're saying, but I don't fully agree with you either, as it sounds a bit cynical and jaded to me. Again, I strongly believe that I'm someone who can distance myself from entertainers. I don't feel attached to them or like I'm in a relationship with them, or that I actually know them. I see them ultimately as people with unknown lives, that have a streaming job and have a streaming personality that's still apart of who they are. Just like anybody and everybody out there that's been making Youtube videos for over 10 years. We'll never actually know the person, but that doesn't mean everything they're saying is entirely scripted and/or "just" a performance to make money and get views.
last edited at Apr 25, 2021 1:39AM
SF Apr 25, 2021 1:50AM
I wouldn't exactly say that Vtubers are just like Wrestlers. With wrestling, EVERYTHING that happens in the ring is completely scripted while in Vtuber streams the only act is the backstories that they come up and the voice that they put on (hell with Calli and Ina I don't think they even put on a voice lol). A lot of the things Vtubers say and do on stream is genuine. Like c'mon, you really think Amelia is acting when being toxic in her Apex streams?
Dark_Tzitzimine Apr 25, 2021 1:55AM
The comparison with wrestlers is certainly an apt one but at the same time, I feel that is underestimating how much influence the actresses have over the character and overestimating how much they're committed to the kayfabe. Most of the girls have dropped the idea of their character and are playing themselves to different degrees every time they stream.
last edited at Apr 25, 2021 1:56AM
Sweet Dangus McGee Apr 25, 2021 9:20AM
no no no see you misunderstand, thats exactly my point! When I make the comparison I don't mean to say "oh its all fake, its all scripted, just accept that, grr" but to bring kayfabe in as a way to understand whats going on here. No I don't think its scripted. We know that the actresses have a lot of input into their personas, and are no doubt mostly filtering their own genuine selves through the lens of that persona. But think of the dedication that takes, to do that 4-9 hours straight however many days every week! Particularly the ones who're doing a voice too. Like, in wrestling which is a whole other level of manufactured content I'll give you that, I think the thing is that no matter how much booking you put on someone or how favorable you want them to be seen by the audience no matter how good of a gimmick, it all comes down to the strength of the performer to make it work. Like, think of how memorable the Macho Man is so many years later, or like those fuckin, Da Vinky twins. Even if the vtubers persona is almost entirely 90 percent themself with a little gimmick, its ultimately still A Performance like anything is when you have an audience like that. And like I think I'm mainly talking about The Big-to-Medium Vtuber Companies here, the ones Engaging With Quintessential Vtuberness, not like small independent streamers who're just adding a little persona and doing their regular thing. Honestly this is already what streamers are doing but to the next level.
And this is why like, fan engagement like shipping and backstory is encouraged and made in a way that isn't creepy the way it is with like, those gross minecraft streamers or whatever. Because of the distance that is made, because there is a real effort to protect the identities of the actresses playing them, what people are engaging with here is this remarkable concoction of the original gimmick, the anime woman on screen, the streamer's personality being filtered behind the persona to varying degrees, the layer of performance, the streamer's genuine self as expressed through performance, and the context of the wider Culture of Vtubers around it.
And I don't think that's cynical at all! Rather, it's a pretty remarkable thing, no?
FluffyCow Apr 25, 2021 12:33PM
^Thanks for explaining more! I understand your views better now, and yeah you don't sound as cynical as I originally thought. It is honestly very remarkable how it all comes together. The only thing I can really add is that big company Vtubers also have a lot of leeway with their personas and how they choose to act, in a similar fashion as indie Vtubers. Main thing is that there are some lines they can't cross and a certain amount of red tape they have to deal with, basically the company owns the rights to their character and they have tighter restrictions while also gaining more protection/legal help and promotion. Which isn't too bad of a trade off honestly, since there's various restrictions every successful entertainer has to place on themselves. Being in a public spotlight and having everything you say scrutinized can be a swift demise if an entertainer plays their cards wrong any day of the week.
Anyhow, I think this has honestly been a good conversation, thanks!
Edit: One other thing is that joining a company does have some risks as well, but I imagine having professional legal help with matters such as DMCA must be such a relief. The DMCA strike nonsense seems to only be getting worse, and screwing content creators more and more. It's really unfortunate how things like that are so harmful.
last edited at Apr 25, 2021 12:44PM
yoyoo222 Apr 29, 2021 12:36AM
you guys put more thought in this than any of them are
Amersion_ May 3, 2021 10:39PM
^ honestly lol
BakaChiki Jan 20, 2022 8:35PM
Ahhh her lil wings just melt my heart