Aight lets be real. Those are some nice ass shoes.
Beefaroni
Nov 27, 2020 9:33PM
I was actually a fan of her pajama-like pants, but her shoes are nice too
HellAQA
Nov 27, 2020 10:20PM
I've blacklisted Touhou doujins because they're everywhere, I don't understand the franchise, and the art is so bizarre and I don't like it. But this image is like legitimately awesome. It looks more like Darkstalkers or Castelvania than Touhou. If all Touhou fanart looked like this (and didn't have those dumb bows), I would probably read the stuff. Don't even know Touhou and this is an instant favorite. Has such great energy, too.
Kirin
Nov 27, 2020 10:49PM
^ The original art for the project is drawn by a self-taught artist who singlehandedly programmed every detail of one of the most successful indie game projects in the world (with no advertising, before Steam was a thing). The fanart comprises literal hundreds of thousands of works drawn by people across Japan in every conceivable style and aesthetic, so I'm not sure what you're referring to when you call the art 'bizarre', since it'd be the same as calling all Dragon Ball or Final Fantasy fanart bizarre (there's literally a Touhou x Castlevania crossover that's popular with fans, by the way).
If you don't like the general aesthetic, then it can't be helped, because the character designs are universally acclaimed for drawing on the various millennia of fashion before people discovered trousers, and is extremely rich for it. Not really trying to criticize your taste or anything- it just seems odd to complain about the lack of a certain type of content in one of the most fertile and popular IPs in history.
riverFlower
Nov 27, 2020 11:26PM
Steam is completely irrelevant. Even when Steam was around, Zun was actively against publishing his works on it until very recently. It's not really a primary vehicle for Japanese self-started games either from what I know and Touhou 16 being published on Steam was for the benefit of Western audiences and completely unnecessary in terms of spreading the word.
Just to comment cause I don't think it becoming a success "before Steam was a thing" is the most impressive thing related to that, but rather that Touhou never needed to depend on formalized distribution platforms.
Also those dumb bows are the defining characteristics of all Touhou characters. Can't have a Touhou character without a hat or bow.
Throbelisk
Nov 27, 2020 11:28PM
I've blacklisted Touhou doujins because they're everywhere, I don't understand the franchise, and the art is so bizarre and I don't like it.
Wikipedia is a wonderful thing, especially when you want to understand something and not sound like a child complaining about it.
Kirin
Nov 27, 2020 11:38PM
Just to comment cause I don't think it becoming a success "before Steam was a thing" is the most impressive thing related to that, but rather that Touhou never needed to depend on formalized distribution platforms.
That's a much better way to put it, yeah. Thanks for specifying.
Galim
Nov 28, 2020 3:11AM
In defense of HellAQA (barring the comment about the art style), the sheer, overwhelming amount of Touhou content and the relative lack of useful, easy to find and access English resources for the series (Wikipedia's pages on the franchise are extremely long and dry; basically, if you don't have a requisite level of experience with the series already, everything Wikipedia has to tell you will go in one eye and out the other, so to speak) makes the series seem nigh-inaccessible to those that aren't already fans, especially in the west.
There are too many possible starting places in too many different mediums, the fans are all already so deep they can't relate to newbs or casuals, there's a million characters and somehow all of them are important, and so on. None of these things are necessarily true, but it can certainly seem that way from the outside, which makes it incredibly daunting to try and break into the series.
And again, there's so much Touhou content that when you aren't interested, it can be very frustrating to have it presented to you constantly when you're not looking for it.
aranicar
Nov 28, 2020 5:14AM
Every week there's one or two Touhou works out of dozens of other good work. If that's "being presented to you constantly" then like 20 other franchises also meet that criteria. I don't keep up with those things but I don't go into the comments and say "I blacklist xyz franchise because I'm reminded it exists every week". That's just inciting conflict.
In fact, those images tend to become gateways to new franchises since I get interested in characters or pairings I like and I look it up.
Galim
Nov 28, 2020 7:11AM
^ I meant more "being presented to you constantly" in the sense of searching by keyword (or looking at a tag on this site) than sifting through daily/weekly updates. When there's as large of a content backlog as Touhou has, it can constitute a surprising percentage of what comes up in a single or double-keyword search. Regardless, I don't fully agree with HellAQA, but I was relating my personal experience with Touhou to play devil's advocate rather than bash on them like everyone else.
And your last bit is exactly what I was referring to Touhou having a problem with. Some people (myself included) have difficulty appreciating content without context, and in most cases the solution is simply to explore the context. For the reasons I specified above, that is very difficult to do with Touhou.
last edited at Nov 28, 2020 7:16AM
random
Nov 28, 2020 7:30AM
^I mean Touhouwiki exists and should turn up very readily in any halfway relevant search...
Galim
Nov 28, 2020 8:53AM
^ I'm not an idiot.
Yes, there is a wiki, a repository of raw information that does little more than illustrate how vast the amount of content is and how incredibly hard to follow the structure of the series tends to be without prior knowledge. Does that solve any of the problems I mentioned in my first comment?
To be clear, I'm not interested in Touhou and nothing anyone says is likely to change that at this point. I was conveying my past experiences with thinking to try out the series and, metaphorically, finding myself at the entrance to a labyrinth instead of a clubhouse.
last edited at Nov 28, 2020 8:57AM
random
Nov 28, 2020 9:09AM
^you were talking like ole Wikipedia was the only readily available source in English.
And D E E P L O R E is a tad inevitable with any franchise quarter-century old so eh.
Galim
Nov 28, 2020 9:31AM
^ I mentioned Wikipedia specifically because it was brought up before. And I did mention sources more broadly as not being useful when attempting to break into Touhou as a series. Touhouwiki is easy to find and that's about where its positive qualities end in that regard.
I think if I were to reduce it to single issue, it wouldn't be the quantity of content, but how fragmented it is. Most large franchises have a core installment or linear series thereof that will give you all the basics, and Touhou lacks that. The games are the closest, but they're not in order, most of them seem very episodic, the emphasis on the story in-game varies wildly, and some aren't even translated. So, if there even is a good jumping-off point, it is very hard to find.
last edited at Nov 28, 2020 9:33AM
random
Nov 28, 2020 9:46AM
^I'm not sure we're looking at the same Wiki and game series here.
Galim
Nov 28, 2020 10:06AM
^ Upon closer review of the very jumbled timeline page, the games are generally in chronological order, but I think that's the only point I had outright wrong. I'll be honest, I didn't look very close because I don't really know what I'm looking for and, as I already mentioned, I don't care very much.
I assume you're already involved with the series, and so I'll defer to you on facts but my original points were really more about my subjective experience. In any case, this topic's really wearing on me and I'd like to be done with this conversation.
Kirin
Nov 28, 2020 10:16AM
I think if I were to reduce it to single issue, it wouldn't be the quantity of content, but how fragmented it is. Most large franchises have a core installment or linear series thereof that will give you all the basics, and Touhou lacks that. The games are the closest, but they're not in order, most of them seem very episodic, the emphasis on the story in-game varies wildly, and some aren't even translated. So, if there even is a good jumping-off point, it is very hard to find.
Every single game, manga and spinoff is translated, the series follows an extremely linear timeline (roughly one incident per year), the Touhou wiki is widely considered to be extremely readable, comprehensive and accessible, and even if you're not into that, the TV Tropes page is extensive and has Cliffs Notes on every last character. As a whole, the project is considered accessible and fun precisely because it doesn't hit you with dense, complex lore or devote a hundred pages to explaining the magic system, but encourages thinking for yourself and interpreting various concepts and statements. That's the reason it has so many fanworks- the canon isn't an encyclopaedia so much as a launchpad.
Personally, I think you just seem to have a vested dislike for the franchise, probably because it didn't meet your expectations at an early point. That's perfectly fine- nobody's going to hold a gun to your head and order you to love Touhou. But if you insist on making claims about the series that are objectively wrong and misrepresenting it (to actual fans, no less), you're obviously going to get criticized. If you find it esoteric or weird or meandering or irreverent, then just say so- it's a sentiment that thousands will share, and considerably more honest than lambasting the games for not being 'in order' or translated.
Edit: Just saw your comment, never mind.
last edited at Nov 28, 2020 10:18AM
ObtainCheese
Nov 28, 2020 12:29PM
How ironic, this entire comment section becoming wikipedia unintentionally
Flanny
Nov 28, 2020 12:50PM
Oh, my... Long time I didn't see a discusion about Touhou like this. Keep going, please~
Missigno
Nov 28, 2020 1:14PM
Hey Touhou seems like Yuri Heaven for me so I will take it.
Also I really like this art and can imagine this in a very cool story with this ship (after Alice gets older I guess?)
TopKoak
Nov 28, 2020 6:09PM
Why do these discussions always spawn from people praising the pedophilia territory art
random
Nov 28, 2020 6:28PM
^ZUN ART BEST ART
Throbelisk
Nov 28, 2020 6:59PM
^^ Is the pedophilia territory near Canada's Northwest Territories? I've never heard of it. Sounds like a pretty niche place.
ObtainCheese
Nov 29, 2020 12:11AM
pedophilia territory
Okay, first all why you said that? And why people just roll with this like it's normal, Zun Best Art?! What?!
last edited at Nov 29, 2020 12:12AM
elevown
Nov 29, 2020 12:26AM
^Not sure what you are saying- if its good or bad- but I assume they are just joking that zuns character art style makes them look like children even though they are not?
I dont think his art style is BAD- but its kinda strange and not one of my favs. There is only an incredibily TINY preportion of Touhou work with art by zun though.. Even the cannon stories he is in the credits of, most of the time he wrote them but did NOT do the art.
last edited at Nov 29, 2020 12:38AM
elevown
Nov 29, 2020 12:32AM
And @HellAQA I gotta say that is a silly attitude imo. Touhou is an INCREDIBLE IP with amazing works. whats more there is a HUGE variety of styles of art and types of doujins in it. You do not NEED to know who the characters are or the history of all the games and world etc to just read a work. Everyone else just starts reading them. You learn all that stuff from just reading enough.
If you are a yuri fan and DONT read tohou you are missing out on like a quarter of all yuri doujins. Fair enough if for some reason you just want to ignore the IP- but dont use an excuse that makes no sense such as 'dont like the art style' when every artist has their own style.
last edited at Nov 29, 2020 12:41AM
Kirin
Nov 29, 2020 12:50AM
Not sure what you are saying- if its good or bad- but I assume they are just joking that ZUN's character art style makes them look like children even though they are not?
It's probably this, yeah. Unironically saying 'Touhou is a series filled with lolis' is a good way for people to advertise that they nothing about it. Regarding ZUN's art, the more recent games show a marked improvement, and he's also learned how to draw tits. He just doesn't like drawing them, and even apologized for giving one of WbaWC's characters boobs because they were 'stereotypical'. ZUN is so galaxy brain that he thinks of breasts as the exception rather than the norm. He just wants people to be aerodynamic and have hollow bones, having realized that flying through the skies is infinitely sexier than gazing at some bored dame's mammaries.
pavel94
Nov 29, 2020 3:05AM
He wasn't referring to ZUN's art as being pedophilic territory, but rather this particular art piece in which an obviously adult person is preying on a child who doesn't know how to react to her advances. At least that's what I get from this picture.
Kirin
Nov 29, 2020 3:23AM
And why people just roll with this like it's normal, Zun Best Art?! What?!
I'm guessing this is where the misunderstanding began- ObtainCheese couldn't get enough context from this half-meme, half-serious discussion and figured that Random was praising ZUN's art for its paedophilic qualities. Elevown and I then explained why this wasn't the case. Isn't Image Thread Drama CSI fun?
He wasn't referring to ZUN's art as being pedophilic territory, but rather this particular art piece in which an obviously adult person is preying on a child who doesn't know how to react to her advances. At least that's what I get from this picture.
Yeah, this picture definitely has those vibes to it. It's tagged Age Gap, but not Lolicon, presumably because the child in question is not framed in a sexual light, even though the general situation is sexually charged. I guess the people in charge of tagging prioritized the lady without a shirt over the kid, leading to ambiguous tagging, leading to comment section warfare. In short, business as usual.
Reirin
Nov 29, 2020 7:50AM
As much I love the fanart, doujins and music, I do wish the games have an easier method of adding in English translations, can't really get into it if I don't understand how they trigger the English translations or I might be looking in the wrong place.
RiderFan
Nov 29, 2020 7:51AM
Yuuka is about to teach young Alice some special magic that is not in her grimoire.
SushiKnight
Nov 29, 2020 7:43PM
Aight lets be real. Those are some nice ass shoes.
I'll just side step the rest of this thread and agree with this. Those are some nice ass shoes.
TopKoak
Nov 30, 2020 10:20AM
What Pavel said, Im referring to how this picture in particular is literally grown up Yuuka creeping on Alice as a minor.
Throbelisk
Nov 30, 2020 10:23AM
^ Clutch your pearls for fictional video game characters somewhere else please.
last edited at Nov 30, 2020 10:23AM
Flanny
Nov 30, 2020 5:42PM
^^ How do we even know she's a minor? Remilia looks like a 11 YO girl but in reality she's actually 500 YO. Even Cirno, the one of the youngest characters is like 60 YO. Welcome to Touhou, I guess...
random
Nov 30, 2020 6:53PM
Hell, what Alice even is files under the many, many unanswered mysteries of the franchise ZUN has never bothered elaborating on. But she certainly isn't even remotely an ordinary mortal, and may never have been depending on how literally you interpret Shinki's statement about the denizens of (her) Makai.
Not that it'd make much of a difference to "genocide is a fun game" Yuuka the ageless flower-monster ofc...
Mckydo
Dec 1, 2020 3:35AM
hey guys. art good.
raeminyr
Dec 2, 2020 9:48AM
Aight lets be real. Those are some nice ass shoes.
Looks like a pair of Doc Martens.
elevown
Dec 2, 2020 10:39PM
@random Alice is a youkai if you want to speak broadly I guess- but the peoples from her home realm are refered to as demons right? But Alice is the daughter of Maki's goddess- does that make her different from the normal citizens of Maki? She certainly doesn't seem to be a Godess since she has or needs no faith to sustain herself..
Is there such a thing as half god in Japanese mythology? If Her Mom just wished her into existence she could be any kind of Youkai /being I guess..
All you can say for sure is she isnt human. Or a Goddess probably..
@TopKoak I dont get the impression she is creeping out on her at all- it seems she is just teasing/tormenting/embaressing her for fun. You know what Yuuka is like. Not coming on to her though.
last edited at Dec 2, 2020 10:47PM
random
Dec 3, 2020 1:38AM
^just to copypasta directly from the wiki:
"Alice was a resident of Makai during the PC-98 era. However, with Alice living in the Forest of Magic in the Windows era, the relationship between Shinki and Alice Margatroid is never directly addressed. It's unclear whether Alice was created by Shinki, was a normal magician who moved to Makai, or if her origins have been retconned by the Windows games."
(Akyuu's claim in Memento that she's a posthuman Magician like Patchy can probably be ignored as-such since Akyuu clearly doesn't have all the facts about all the people she discusses, and Alice would have scant reason to fill her in - and probably finds that the explanation that causes the least further inquiries anyway.)
TopKoak
Dec 9, 2020 9:19PM
@Flanny maybe your argument would work if Alice hasn't literally aged up into a fully grown woman over the course of about ten years
random
Dec 9, 2020 11:09PM
My personal pet theory and explanation for her inexplicably different appearances is that Alice's actually an incorporeal spirit who inhabits appropriately enchanted puppets as her physical vessels, and simply pragmatically opted for an "adult" form when she decided to move out of Makai. (This idea might or might not have been lowkey inspired by Aozaki Touko from Kara no Kyoukai and some sci-fi themes >_>) Sorta takes her puppeteer motif to its logical conclusion and, well, it's not like the canon says anything about what she looks like under her dress... o3o
Marion Diabolito
Jan 20, 2022 1:36AM
Alice is a mystery, but even if she did that, she's still semi-divine, so by now even if she started out in a doll's body, it's become real enough at least to be together with Marisa. Also, no matter how you look at it, she's probably immortal. Either a human that Shinki turned into a youkai (magician type) or a doll that Shinki breathed life into, either way, Marisa even mentions the possibility of becoming a youkai herself, so she probably isn't.
GrimEater Nov 27, 2020 7:56PM
Good girl × delinquent
Hot_Soup43 Nov 27, 2020 8:30PM
Aight lets be real. Those are some nice ass shoes.
Beefaroni Nov 27, 2020 9:33PM
I was actually a fan of her pajama-like pants, but her shoes are nice too
HellAQA Nov 27, 2020 10:20PM
I've blacklisted Touhou doujins because they're everywhere, I don't understand the franchise, and the art is so bizarre and I don't like it. But this image is like legitimately awesome. It looks more like Darkstalkers or Castelvania than Touhou. If all Touhou fanart looked like this (and didn't have those dumb bows), I would probably read the stuff. Don't even know Touhou and this is an instant favorite. Has such great energy, too.
Kirin Nov 27, 2020 10:49PM
^ The original art for the project is drawn by a self-taught artist who singlehandedly programmed every detail of one of the most successful indie game projects in the world (with no advertising, before Steam was a thing). The fanart comprises literal hundreds of thousands of works drawn by people across Japan in every conceivable style and aesthetic, so I'm not sure what you're referring to when you call the art 'bizarre', since it'd be the same as calling all Dragon Ball or Final Fantasy fanart bizarre (there's literally a Touhou x Castlevania crossover that's popular with fans, by the way).
If you don't like the general aesthetic, then it can't be helped, because the character designs are universally acclaimed for drawing on the various millennia of fashion before people discovered trousers, and is extremely rich for it. Not really trying to criticize your taste or anything- it just seems odd to complain about the lack of a certain type of content in one of the most fertile and popular IPs in history.
riverFlower Nov 27, 2020 11:26PM
Steam is completely irrelevant. Even when Steam was around, Zun was actively against publishing his works on it until very recently. It's not really a primary vehicle for Japanese self-started games either from what I know and Touhou 16 being published on Steam was for the benefit of Western audiences and completely unnecessary in terms of spreading the word.
Just to comment cause I don't think it becoming a success "before Steam was a thing" is the most impressive thing related to that, but rather that Touhou never needed to depend on formalized distribution platforms.
Also those dumb bows are the defining characteristics of all Touhou characters. Can't have a Touhou character without a hat or bow.
Throbelisk Nov 27, 2020 11:28PM
Wikipedia is a wonderful thing, especially when you want to understand something and not sound like a child complaining about it.
Kirin Nov 27, 2020 11:38PM
That's a much better way to put it, yeah. Thanks for specifying.
Galim Nov 28, 2020 3:11AM
In defense of HellAQA (barring the comment about the art style), the sheer, overwhelming amount of Touhou content and the relative lack of useful, easy to find and access English resources for the series (Wikipedia's pages on the franchise are extremely long and dry; basically, if you don't have a requisite level of experience with the series already, everything Wikipedia has to tell you will go in one eye and out the other, so to speak) makes the series seem nigh-inaccessible to those that aren't already fans, especially in the west.
There are too many possible starting places in too many different mediums, the fans are all already so deep they can't relate to newbs or casuals, there's a million characters and somehow all of them are important, and so on. None of these things are necessarily true, but it can certainly seem that way from the outside, which makes it incredibly daunting to try and break into the series.
And again, there's so much Touhou content that when you aren't interested, it can be very frustrating to have it presented to you constantly when you're not looking for it.
aranicar Nov 28, 2020 5:14AM
Every week there's one or two Touhou works out of dozens of other good work. If that's "being presented to you constantly" then like 20 other franchises also meet that criteria. I don't keep up with those things but I don't go into the comments and say "I blacklist xyz franchise because I'm reminded it exists every week". That's just inciting conflict.
In fact, those images tend to become gateways to new franchises since I get interested in characters or pairings I like and I look it up.
Galim Nov 28, 2020 7:11AM
^ I meant more "being presented to you constantly" in the sense of searching by keyword (or looking at a tag on this site) than sifting through daily/weekly updates. When there's as large of a content backlog as Touhou has, it can constitute a surprising percentage of what comes up in a single or double-keyword search. Regardless, I don't fully agree with HellAQA, but I was relating my personal experience with Touhou to play devil's advocate rather than bash on them like everyone else.
And your last bit is exactly what I was referring to Touhou having a problem with. Some people (myself included) have difficulty appreciating content without context, and in most cases the solution is simply to explore the context. For the reasons I specified above, that is very difficult to do with Touhou.
last edited at Nov 28, 2020 7:16AM
random Nov 28, 2020 7:30AM
^I mean Touhouwiki exists and should turn up very readily in any halfway relevant search...
Galim Nov 28, 2020 8:53AM
^ I'm not an idiot.
Yes, there is a wiki, a repository of raw information that does little more than illustrate how vast the amount of content is and how incredibly hard to follow the structure of the series tends to be without prior knowledge. Does that solve any of the problems I mentioned in my first comment?
To be clear, I'm not interested in Touhou and nothing anyone says is likely to change that at this point. I was conveying my past experiences with thinking to try out the series and, metaphorically, finding myself at the entrance to a labyrinth instead of a clubhouse.
last edited at Nov 28, 2020 8:57AM
random Nov 28, 2020 9:09AM
^you were talking like ole Wikipedia was the only readily available source in English.
And D E E P L O R E is a tad inevitable with any franchise quarter-century old so eh.
Galim Nov 28, 2020 9:31AM
^ I mentioned Wikipedia specifically because it was brought up before. And I did mention sources more broadly as not being useful when attempting to break into Touhou as a series. Touhouwiki is easy to find and that's about where its positive qualities end in that regard.
I think if I were to reduce it to single issue, it wouldn't be the quantity of content, but how fragmented it is. Most large franchises have a core installment or linear series thereof that will give you all the basics, and Touhou lacks that. The games are the closest, but they're not in order, most of them seem very episodic, the emphasis on the story in-game varies wildly, and some aren't even translated. So, if there even is a good jumping-off point, it is very hard to find.
last edited at Nov 28, 2020 9:33AM
random Nov 28, 2020 9:46AM
^I'm not sure we're looking at the same Wiki and game series here.
Galim Nov 28, 2020 10:06AM
^ Upon closer review of the very jumbled timeline page, the games are generally in chronological order, but I think that's the only point I had outright wrong. I'll be honest, I didn't look very close because I don't really know what I'm looking for and, as I already mentioned, I don't care very much.
I assume you're already involved with the series, and so I'll defer to you on facts but my original points were really more about my subjective experience. In any case, this topic's really wearing on me and I'd like to be done with this conversation.
Kirin Nov 28, 2020 10:16AM
Every single game, manga and spinoff is translated, the series follows an extremely linear timeline (roughly one incident per year), the Touhou wiki is widely considered to be extremely readable, comprehensive and accessible, and even if you're not into that, the TV Tropes page is extensive and has Cliffs Notes on every last character. As a whole, the project is considered accessible and fun precisely because it doesn't hit you with dense, complex lore or devote a hundred pages to explaining the magic system, but encourages thinking for yourself and interpreting various concepts and statements. That's the reason it has so many fanworks- the canon isn't an encyclopaedia so much as a launchpad.
Personally, I think you just seem to have a vested dislike for the franchise, probably because it didn't meet your expectations at an early point. That's perfectly fine- nobody's going to hold a gun to your head and order you to love Touhou. But if you insist on making claims about the series that are objectively wrong and misrepresenting it (to actual fans, no less), you're obviously going to get criticized. If you find it esoteric or weird or meandering or irreverent, then just say so- it's a sentiment that thousands will share, and considerably more honest than lambasting the games for not being 'in order' or translated.
Edit: Just saw your comment, never mind.
last edited at Nov 28, 2020 10:18AM
ObtainCheese Nov 28, 2020 12:29PM
How ironic, this entire comment section becoming wikipedia unintentionally
Flanny Nov 28, 2020 12:50PM
Oh, my... Long time I didn't see a discusion about Touhou like this. Keep going, please~
Missigno Nov 28, 2020 1:14PM
Hey Touhou seems like Yuri Heaven for me so I will take it.
Also I really like this art and can imagine this in a very cool story with this ship (after Alice gets older I guess?)
TopKoak Nov 28, 2020 6:09PM
Why do these discussions always spawn from people praising the pedophilia territory art
random Nov 28, 2020 6:28PM
^ZUN ART BEST ART
Throbelisk Nov 28, 2020 6:59PM
^^ Is the pedophilia territory near Canada's Northwest Territories? I've never heard of it. Sounds like a pretty niche place.
ObtainCheese Nov 29, 2020 12:11AM
Okay, first all why you said that? And why people just roll with this like it's normal, Zun Best Art?! What?!
last edited at Nov 29, 2020 12:12AM
elevown Nov 29, 2020 12:26AM
^Not sure what you are saying- if its good or bad- but I assume they are just joking that zuns character art style makes them look like children even though they are not?
I dont think his art style is BAD- but its kinda strange and not one of my favs. There is only an incredibily TINY preportion of Touhou work with art by zun though.. Even the cannon stories he is in the credits of, most of the time he wrote them but did NOT do the art.
last edited at Nov 29, 2020 12:38AM
elevown Nov 29, 2020 12:32AM
And @HellAQA I gotta say that is a silly attitude imo. Touhou is an INCREDIBLE IP with amazing works. whats more there is a HUGE variety of styles of art and types of doujins in it. You do not NEED to know who the characters are or the history of all the games and world etc to just read a work. Everyone else just starts reading them. You learn all that stuff from just reading enough.
If you are a yuri fan and DONT read tohou you are missing out on like a quarter of all yuri doujins. Fair enough if for some reason you just want to ignore the IP- but dont use an excuse that makes no sense such as 'dont like the art style' when every artist has their own style.
last edited at Nov 29, 2020 12:41AM
Kirin Nov 29, 2020 12:50AM
It's probably this, yeah. Unironically saying 'Touhou is a series filled with lolis' is a good way for people to advertise that they nothing about it. Regarding ZUN's art, the more recent games show a marked improvement, and he's also learned how to draw tits. He just doesn't like drawing them, and even apologized for giving one of WbaWC's characters boobs because they were 'stereotypical'. ZUN is so galaxy brain that he thinks of breasts as the exception rather than the norm. He just wants people to be aerodynamic and have hollow bones, having realized that flying through the skies is infinitely sexier than gazing at some bored dame's mammaries.
pavel94 Nov 29, 2020 3:05AM
He wasn't referring to ZUN's art as being pedophilic territory, but rather this particular art piece in which an obviously adult person is preying on a child who doesn't know how to react to her advances. At least that's what I get from this picture.
Kirin Nov 29, 2020 3:23AM
I'm guessing this is where the misunderstanding began- ObtainCheese couldn't get enough context from this half-meme, half-serious discussion and figured that Random was praising ZUN's art for its paedophilic qualities. Elevown and I then explained why this wasn't the case. Isn't Image Thread Drama CSI fun?
Yeah, this picture definitely has those vibes to it. It's tagged
Age Gap, but notLolicon, presumably because the child in question is not framed in a sexual light, even though the general situation is sexually charged. I guess the people in charge of tagging prioritized the lady without a shirt over the kid, leading to ambiguous tagging, leading to comment section warfare. In short, business as usual.Reirin Nov 29, 2020 7:50AM
As much I love the fanart, doujins and music, I do wish the games have an easier method of adding in English translations, can't really get into it if I don't understand how they trigger the English translations or I might be looking in the wrong place.
RiderFan Nov 29, 2020 7:51AM
Yuuka is about to teach young Alice some special magic that is not in her grimoire.
SushiKnight Nov 29, 2020 7:43PM
I'll just side step the rest of this thread and agree with this. Those are some nice ass shoes.
TopKoak Nov 30, 2020 10:20AM
What Pavel said, Im referring to how this picture in particular is literally grown up Yuuka creeping on Alice as a minor.
Throbelisk Nov 30, 2020 10:23AM
^ Clutch your pearls for fictional video game characters somewhere else please.
last edited at Nov 30, 2020 10:23AM
Flanny Nov 30, 2020 5:42PM
^^ How do we even know she's a minor? Remilia looks like a 11 YO girl but in reality she's actually 500 YO. Even Cirno, the one of the youngest characters is like 60 YO. Welcome to Touhou, I guess...
random Nov 30, 2020 6:53PM
Hell, what Alice even is files under the many, many unanswered mysteries of the franchise ZUN has never bothered elaborating on. But she certainly isn't even remotely an ordinary mortal, and may never have been depending on how literally you interpret Shinki's statement about the denizens of (her) Makai.
Not that it'd make much of a difference to "genocide is a fun game" Yuuka the ageless flower-monster ofc...
Mckydo Dec 1, 2020 3:35AM
hey guys. art good.
raeminyr Dec 2, 2020 9:48AM
Looks like a pair of Doc Martens.
elevown Dec 2, 2020 10:39PM
@random Alice is a youkai if you want to speak broadly I guess- but the peoples from her home realm are refered to as demons right? But Alice is the daughter of Maki's goddess- does that make her different from the normal citizens of Maki? She certainly doesn't seem to be a Godess since she has or needs no faith to sustain herself..
Is there such a thing as half god in Japanese mythology? If Her Mom just wished her into existence she could be any kind of Youkai /being I guess..
All you can say for sure is she isnt human. Or a Goddess probably..
@TopKoak I dont get the impression she is creeping out on her at all- it seems she is just teasing/tormenting/embaressing her for fun. You know what Yuuka is like. Not coming on to her though.
last edited at Dec 2, 2020 10:47PM
random Dec 3, 2020 1:38AM
^just to copypasta directly from the wiki:
"Alice was a resident of Makai during the PC-98 era. However, with Alice living in the Forest of Magic in the Windows era, the relationship between Shinki and Alice Margatroid is never directly addressed. It's unclear whether Alice was created by Shinki, was a normal magician who moved to Makai, or if her origins have been retconned by the Windows games."
(Akyuu's claim in Memento that she's a posthuman Magician like Patchy can probably be ignored as-such since Akyuu clearly doesn't have all the facts about all the people she discusses, and Alice would have scant reason to fill her in - and probably finds that the explanation that causes the least further inquiries anyway.)
TopKoak Dec 9, 2020 9:19PM
@Flanny maybe your argument would work if Alice hasn't literally aged up into a fully grown woman over the course of about ten years
random Dec 9, 2020 11:09PM
My personal pet theory and explanation for her inexplicably different appearances is that Alice's actually an incorporeal spirit who inhabits appropriately enchanted puppets as her physical vessels, and simply pragmatically opted for an "adult" form when she decided to move out of Makai. (This idea might or might not have been lowkey inspired by Aozaki Touko from Kara no Kyoukai and some sci-fi themes >_>) Sorta takes her puppeteer motif to its logical conclusion and, well, it's not like the canon says anything about what she looks like under her dress... o3o
Marion Diabolito Jan 20, 2022 1:36AM
Alice is a mystery, but even if she did that, she's still semi-divine, so by now even if she started out in a doll's body, it's become real enough at least to be together with Marisa. Also, no matter how you look at it, she's probably immortal. Either a human that Shinki turned into a youkai (magician type) or a doll that Shinki breathed life into, either way, Marisa even mentions the possibility of becoming a youkai herself, so she probably isn't.
random Jan 20, 2022 2:30AM
^not sure what you even mean by "real enough".