Momo temporarily fell to darkness for Shamiko's sake. but Shamiko is too dense to notice the underlying meaning of that
Shadowofdimentio
Nov 11, 2019 9:06PM
Literally the cutest.
Reiba1925
Nov 12, 2019 12:58AM
Why does everyone always forget shamiko's victories?
@Serenade
She has already stolen her blood from Momo, she has practically turned Momo into her vassal (in spirit), she managed to erase part of her family's curse, all of those are legitimate victories and not even all she has had.
I really adore this image for several reasons. First, I feel that the scenes of the last two panels could happen later in the series, when these two begin to going out officially, although, of course, only if they learn to leave their Stun side aside. Second, because the first two panels of this image are situations that, based on the things that both Shamiko and Momo have said, pass behind the scenes all the time. and third, Because this picture is simply too adorable! (especialy the last panel).
last edited at Nov 12, 2019 3:09AM
BV
Nov 12, 2019 3:02AM
This! This is cute.
luinthoron
Nov 12, 2019 3:56AM
Well, she's clearly won now.
BugDevil
Nov 12, 2019 5:38AM
I think Momo is the winner here. She got a cute housewife who does everything for her. Who is the real subordinate here, I wonder? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
@Reiba1925
None of those are legitimate victories lol
The blood was a coincidence she herself didn't even realize and only happened because Momo weakened herself. She didn't do shit to make Momo her vassal, Momo quite literally sacrificed herself for Shamiko's sake because she loves her, that is not something Shamiko herself did. Momo could have just let her rot in nightmares if she wanted. Releasing part of the family's curse is tied to the blood, which she once again did not obtain on purpose.
The only legit victories she has come way later and are all tied to allies bailing her out. Shamiko never wins on purpose and when she does it's not alone.
Though Momo's victories mostly just come from her being more experienced in whatever the topic is.
last edited at Nov 12, 2019 5:39AM
luinthoron
Nov 12, 2019 6:14AM
^It's not about subordinates, it's about being happy with your wife (and Momo being the one to blush more).
KanadeChan
Nov 12, 2019 8:02AM
Really love the fact that Momo stop using her phone right after Shamiko cling to her.
Be careful Momo! Your wife is more powerful than you think!
katewarner
Nov 12, 2019 9:20AM
^^^
Shamiko's huge accomplishment was, before and after Sakura's core, simply staying alive for so many years in the jaws of multiple curses and illness and becoming a more than decent human being rather than a warped, shattered wreck. The more we learn of Shamiko's and Momo's pasts, the more amazing it is that they are such wonderful, vibrant people.
That's why I actually began to weep when the cat Sakura made her little speech and decision to support Shamiko. Heartrending, inspiring, beautiful.
last edited at Nov 12, 2019 9:40AM
Hauteclere
Nov 12, 2019 12:00PM
On purpose or not, a victory is a victory. We take those.
Reiba1925
Nov 12, 2019 12:17PM
@BugDevil
I remind you that Momo considered losing her blood a legitimate defeat, she even use Shamiko's phrase. Momo became Shamiko's vassal for love, yes, but Shamiko was the one who made Momo fall in love with her in the first place, (even if it was unintentionally or she don't realizing it) so it could be said that she made Momo her vassal indirectly. What does it matter if it was an accident? Shamiko proposed at the beginning of the series to eliminate the curse of the 400 yen and in the end she did it, she achieved what was proposed, that is all that matters.
I agree that all the examples I gave earlier were achievements that Shamiko made by luck or accidentally, but I don't think that is relevant. All were goals that Shamiko had set at some point in the series and finally met. Personally, I consider that achieving your goals regardless of how, is a victory.
last edited at Nov 12, 2019 3:40PM
cooler1303
Nov 12, 2019 12:20PM
house wife mode activated
blopa
Nov 12, 2019 12:23PM
"I knew something was off when Shamiko didn't show up to cook me rice" - Momo, at some point.
last edited at Nov 12, 2019 12:57PM
AkinomaHNU
Nov 12, 2019 1:37PM
@Reiba1925 it's 40,000 yen (roughly $400), not 400 yen. If their family had to live with 400 yen only, nevermind Shamiko's 500 yen monthly allowance on top of rent and other expenses, they wouldn't even be able to buy enough bread crumbs to feed all three members of the family for even a week.
DY4Y
Nov 12, 2019 2:08PM
I love her tail. It's only two waves when she's by herself, but when she cuddles Momo it speeds up to four. She's so easy to read
elevown
Nov 12, 2019 3:26PM
@katewarner the cat bit you are talking about is that in the anime or manga?
Reiba1925
Nov 12, 2019 3:30PM
@AkinomaHNU
Thank you for the correction :). Honestly, I didn't remember the exact quantity, so I wrote the number that rang the most in my head.
Reiba1925
Nov 12, 2019 3:31PM
@elevown
Manga
last edited at Nov 12, 2019 3:31PM
Flanny
Nov 12, 2019 6:38PM
Does Momo keep sleeping on the sofa? Won't this mean they're on the "bed" right now?
^ Shamiko is incapable of not feeling up Momo's abs.
BugDevil
Nov 13, 2019 7:47AM
@Reiba1925
Your argumentation is... extremely wishy-washy. If you do not do something on purpose it's not a victory. It's luck putting something into your lap. Making someone fall in love is not a victory over them, especially if that was never your goal. The goal being reached without your own input is not a victory, it's just a favorable result.
@katewarner
I definitely agree with your assessment. It's wonderful how, faced with so much suffering, our lovable duo can still be so happy-go-lucky. The flashback with cat Sakura is the most emotional moment in the entire manga for me. I could imagine sad, but hopeful music playing in that scene. It would be a great final episode for season 2.
last edited at Nov 13, 2019 7:48AM
luinthoron
Nov 13, 2019 7:54AM
^Eh, when Shamiko uses her catchphrase to denounce Momo's "victories" in case of similar situations where it mostly should be considered a "favorable result", she deserves to have these called "victories" when she happens to come up on top as well. It's not like "winning" in such situations is ever taken too seriously anyway.
Reiba1925
Nov 13, 2019 10:35AM
^^
I insist, Momo knew that Shamiko stole her blood by accident and she still considered it a loss.
Victories by luck are something that exists, and are perfectly valid. For example, let's say we start playing snakes and ladders. when you always roll the dice, high numbers come out while when I throw them, only low numbers come out. In the end, you end up walking on a ladder that took you directly to the goal while I could not pass more than half of the board. The result is obvious, you won, just because you had luck, but even so, it was an undeniable victory.
last edited at Nov 13, 2019 10:54AM
BugDevil
Nov 13, 2019 11:42AM
^Pointless. What Momo considers a loss or not does not constitute to an actual loss in a struggle between her and Shamiko. It's a joke phrase a la "Don't get cocky just because I messed up". Momo was careless and weakened, but Shamiko did not actually do shit.
Victories by luck only work if you were competing in the first place and when luck was ever a variable to the fight all along (like in your bad example of a luck based game like snakes and ladders). Shamiko was not fighting or competing with Momo at any point when she got the blood. If Momo had actually agreed to Shamiko's vassal deal back on the sakura tree hill at the end of the anime... THAT would have been a win for Shamiko.
As @Iunthoron points out, these "victories" are made up nonsense for jokes. It's a fact that Shamiko and Momo both never won anything because they never competed (except for the test results at school). At best you are conflating reaching a goal or having a success with "winning".
Your "victory" sounds like this scenario: Two families are mortal enemies and one of the enemy's family members dies of a heart attack. Then one member of the first family claims that's their victory. Sounds pretty stupid, right?
last edited at Nov 13, 2019 11:54AM
Reiba1925
Nov 13, 2019 2:58PM
^Ok. If you need me to mention an occasion when Shamiko defeated someone in combat with her own hands, without someone's help or some intervention of the luck factor is fine. Remember that time when she defeated sakura's familiar. we can agree that that counts as a victory, right? therefore your previous statement "Shamiko never wins on purpose and when she does it's not alone" is still wrong.
last edited at Nov 13, 2019 2:59PM
Ghostrama13
Nov 14, 2019 1:21PM
ThEy'Re SuCh GoOd FrIeNdS
BugDevil
Nov 14, 2019 1:21PM
@Reiba Wow. You're really stretching to twist that into a victory, huh? Sheesh. She used the Whatever Staff to shoot a familiar that is weak enough to be defeated by normal humans without any powers. Not sure I can even count it because she used a game breaking weapon, but whatever. Please. The fact that you needed to bring something so minor up kinda shows you have no ground to stand on. Might as well consider her holding down the dog to retrieve Lilith as a victory then. Magnificent feats. Can we stop now? This is just not worth it.
"a familiar that is weak enough to be defeated by normal humans without any powers"
And? That the enemy is weak does not change the fact that it was defeated in combat.
"Not sure I can even count it because she used a game breaking weapon"
Really?... Ok, I don't want to be offensive, but that's stupid. To that logic, Thanos never defeated the avengers in this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP5b3qHG6Hw just because he used the infinity stones. "The guy beat them up, but since he use super broken space magic stones instead of his own strength, I can't say he defeated them" citing yourself "Sounds pretty stupid, right?" It would be different if we were discussing whether it was a fair victory or not, but that is not the case.
"Might as well consider her holding down the dog to retrieve Lilith as a victory then"
(sigh) ... The example I gave was a fight. Tell me how the hell are both scenarios comparable? your comparison makes no sense.
"Magnificent feats"
Okay. Now you are simply imagining things. When I said that defeating sakuras familiar was a great feat? The only thing I said was that defeating it counted as a victory (victory =/= great feat). Never, in any part of my last comment did I mention it was a great feat.
I remind you of all this discussion start because I affirm that Shamiko has had some victories. That is all that I am defending right now. And wherever you look at it, the defeat of the familiar is an undeniable victory of Shamiko. Hell, not only does it meet all the requirements you mentioned before (No luck. No help. Done on her own, and that last fact doesn't change just because she used the "Whatever Staff"), even Momo and Shamiko themselves considered that a victory (Shamiko called it her first victory). And nothing you said in your previous comment refutes that it is.
"Can we stop now? This is just not worth it."
If you want to stop, go ahead. I am not forcing you to answer me. I'm answering you because I want to, but if you don't think it's worth it, then just ignore me.
last edited at Nov 15, 2019 12:01AM
Nezchan
Nov 15, 2019 3:39PM
No, just ignore each other from here on. There's no point in continuing any further.
blopa
Nov 17, 2019 4:25PM
You're asking the impossible, Nezchan. If you think this is bad, you should chpter discussions in Mangadex. ALL of them...
Serenata Nov 11, 2019 8:46PM
Has she won yet?
Lilliwyt Nov 11, 2019 8:55PM
Dat Shamisen apron.
Azero25 Nov 11, 2019 9:03PM
Momo temporarily fell to darkness for Shamiko's sake. but Shamiko is too dense to notice the underlying meaning of that
Shadowofdimentio Nov 11, 2019 9:06PM
Literally the cutest.
Reiba1925 Nov 12, 2019 12:58AM
Why does everyone always forget shamiko's victories?
@Serenade
She has already stolen her blood from Momo, she has practically turned Momo into her vassal (in spirit), she managed to erase part of her family's curse, all of those are legitimate victories and not even all she has had.
I really adore this image for several reasons. First, I feel that the scenes of the last two panels could happen later in the series, when these two begin to going out officially, although, of course, only if they learn to leave their Stun side aside. Second, because the first two panels of this image are situations that, based on the things that both Shamiko and Momo have said, pass behind the scenes all the time. and third, Because this picture is simply too adorable! (especialy the last panel).
last edited at Nov 12, 2019 3:09AM
BV Nov 12, 2019 3:02AM
This! This is cute.
luinthoron Nov 12, 2019 3:56AM
Well, she's clearly won now.
BugDevil Nov 12, 2019 5:38AM
I think Momo is the winner here. She got a cute housewife who does everything for her. Who is the real subordinate here, I wonder? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
@Reiba1925
None of those are legitimate victories lol
The blood was a coincidence she herself didn't even realize and only happened because Momo weakened herself. She didn't do shit to make Momo her vassal, Momo quite literally sacrificed herself for Shamiko's sake because she loves her, that is not something Shamiko herself did. Momo could have just let her rot in nightmares if she wanted. Releasing part of the family's curse is tied to the blood, which she once again did not obtain on purpose.
The only legit victories she has come way later and are all tied to allies bailing her out. Shamiko never wins on purpose and when she does it's not alone.
Though Momo's victories mostly just come from her being more experienced in whatever the topic is.
last edited at Nov 12, 2019 5:39AM
luinthoron Nov 12, 2019 6:14AM
^It's not about subordinates, it's about being happy with your wife (and Momo being the one to blush more).
KanadeChan Nov 12, 2019 8:02AM
Really love the fact that Momo stop using her phone right after Shamiko cling to her.
Be careful Momo! Your wife is more powerful than you think!
katewarner Nov 12, 2019 9:20AM
^^^
Shamiko's huge accomplishment was, before and after Sakura's core, simply staying alive for so many years in the jaws of multiple curses and illness and becoming a more than decent human being rather than a warped, shattered wreck. The more we learn of Shamiko's and Momo's pasts, the more amazing it is that they are such wonderful, vibrant people.
That's why I actually began to weep when the cat Sakura made her little speech and decision to support Shamiko. Heartrending, inspiring, beautiful.
last edited at Nov 12, 2019 9:40AM
Hauteclere Nov 12, 2019 12:00PM
On purpose or not, a victory is a victory. We take those.
Reiba1925 Nov 12, 2019 12:17PM
@BugDevil
I remind you that Momo considered losing her blood a legitimate defeat, she even use Shamiko's phrase. Momo became Shamiko's vassal for love, yes, but Shamiko was the one who made Momo fall in love with her in the first place, (even if it was unintentionally or she don't realizing it) so it could be said that she made Momo her vassal indirectly. What does it matter if it was an accident? Shamiko proposed at the beginning of the series to eliminate the curse of the 400 yen and in the end she did it, she achieved what was proposed, that is all that matters.
I agree that all the examples I gave earlier were achievements that Shamiko made by luck or accidentally, but I don't think that is relevant. All were goals that Shamiko had set at some point in the series and finally met. Personally, I consider that achieving your goals regardless of how, is a victory.
last edited at Nov 12, 2019 3:40PM
cooler1303 Nov 12, 2019 12:20PM
house wife mode activated
blopa Nov 12, 2019 12:23PM
"I knew something was off when Shamiko didn't show up to cook me rice" - Momo, at some point.
last edited at Nov 12, 2019 12:57PM
AkinomaHNU Nov 12, 2019 1:37PM
@Reiba1925 it's 40,000 yen (roughly $400), not 400 yen. If their family had to live with 400 yen only, nevermind Shamiko's 500 yen monthly allowance on top of rent and other expenses, they wouldn't even be able to buy enough bread crumbs to feed all three members of the family for even a week.
DY4Y Nov 12, 2019 2:08PM
I love her tail. It's only two waves when she's by herself, but when she cuddles Momo it speeds up to four. She's so easy to read
elevown Nov 12, 2019 3:26PM
@katewarner the cat bit you are talking about is that in the anime or manga?
Reiba1925 Nov 12, 2019 3:30PM
@AkinomaHNU
Thank you for the correction :). Honestly, I didn't remember the exact quantity, so I wrote the number that rang the most in my head.
Reiba1925 Nov 12, 2019 3:31PM
@elevown
Manga
last edited at Nov 12, 2019 3:31PM
Flanny Nov 12, 2019 6:38PM
Does Momo keep sleeping on the sofa? Won't this mean they're on the "bed" right now?
last edited at Nov 12, 2019 6:39PM
Reiba1925 Nov 12, 2019 6:54PM
@Flanny
In fact... Yes. seems like Momo always sleep in her sofa. Spoiler from ch.44 https://s2.desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/a/image/1567/91/1567913158958.jpg
katewarner Nov 12, 2019 7:23PM
^ Shamiko is incapable of not feeling up Momo's abs.
BugDevil Nov 13, 2019 7:47AM
@Reiba1925
Your argumentation is... extremely wishy-washy. If you do not do something on purpose it's not a victory. It's luck putting something into your lap. Making someone fall in love is not a victory over them, especially if that was never your goal. The goal being reached without your own input is not a victory, it's just a favorable result.
@katewarner
I definitely agree with your assessment. It's wonderful how, faced with so much suffering, our lovable duo can still be so happy-go-lucky. The flashback with cat Sakura is the most emotional moment in the entire manga for me. I could imagine sad, but hopeful music playing in that scene. It would be a great final episode for season 2.
last edited at Nov 13, 2019 7:48AM
luinthoron Nov 13, 2019 7:54AM
^Eh, when Shamiko uses her catchphrase to denounce Momo's "victories" in case of similar situations where it mostly should be considered a "favorable result", she deserves to have these called "victories" when she happens to come up on top as well. It's not like "winning" in such situations is ever taken too seriously anyway.
Reiba1925 Nov 13, 2019 10:35AM
^^
I insist, Momo knew that Shamiko stole her blood by accident and she still considered it a loss.
Victories by luck are something that exists, and are perfectly valid. For example, let's say we start playing snakes and ladders. when you always roll the dice, high numbers come out while when I throw them, only low numbers come out. In the end, you end up walking on a ladder that took you directly to the goal while I could not pass more than half of the board. The result is obvious, you won, just because you had luck, but even so, it was an undeniable victory.
last edited at Nov 13, 2019 10:54AM
BugDevil Nov 13, 2019 11:42AM
^Pointless. What Momo considers a loss or not does not constitute to an actual loss in a struggle between her and Shamiko. It's a joke phrase a la "Don't get cocky just because I messed up". Momo was careless and weakened, but Shamiko did not actually do shit.
Victories by luck only work if you were competing in the first place and when luck was ever a variable to the fight all along (like in your bad example of a luck based game like snakes and ladders). Shamiko was not fighting or competing with Momo at any point when she got the blood. If Momo had actually agreed to Shamiko's vassal deal back on the sakura tree hill at the end of the anime... THAT would have been a win for Shamiko.
As @Iunthoron points out, these "victories" are made up nonsense for jokes. It's a fact that Shamiko and Momo both never won anything because they never competed (except for the test results at school). At best you are conflating reaching a goal or having a success with "winning".
Your "victory" sounds like this scenario: Two families are mortal enemies and one of the enemy's family members dies of a heart attack. Then one member of the first family claims that's their victory. Sounds pretty stupid, right?
last edited at Nov 13, 2019 11:54AM
Reiba1925 Nov 13, 2019 2:58PM
^Ok. If you need me to mention an occasion when Shamiko defeated someone in combat with her own hands, without someone's help or some intervention of the luck factor is fine. Remember that time when she defeated sakura's familiar. we can agree that that counts as a victory, right? therefore your previous statement "Shamiko never wins on purpose and when she does it's not alone" is still wrong.
last edited at Nov 13, 2019 2:59PM
Ghostrama13 Nov 14, 2019 1:21PM
ThEy'Re SuCh GoOd FrIeNdS
BugDevil Nov 14, 2019 1:21PM
@Reiba Wow. You're really stretching to twist that into a victory, huh? Sheesh. She used the Whatever Staff to shoot a familiar that is weak enough to be defeated by normal humans without any powers. Not sure I can even count it because she used a game breaking weapon, but whatever. Please. The fact that you needed to bring something so minor up kinda shows you have no ground to stand on. Might as well consider her holding down the dog to retrieve Lilith as a victory then. Magnificent feats. Can we stop now? This is just not worth it.
last edited at Nov 14, 2019 1:22PM
Reiba1925 Nov 14, 2019 6:05PM
^
"She used the Whatever Staff to shoot"
Remember that "Whatever Staff" uses Shamikos Mana. https: //s2.desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/a/image/1570/94/1570940588194.jpg, https://s2.desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/a/image/1570/94/1570941146047.jpg, https://s2.desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/a/image/1568/13/1568131084648.jpg
That attack was carried out using only the power of shamiko herself. Also, even if that were not the case, that would not change the fact that Shamiko eliminated the familiar.
"a familiar that is weak enough to be defeated by normal humans without any powers"
And? That the enemy is weak does not change the fact that it was defeated in combat.
"Not sure I can even count it because she used a game breaking weapon"
Really?... Ok, I don't want to be offensive, but that's stupid. To that logic, Thanos never defeated the avengers in this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP5b3qHG6Hw just because he used the infinity stones. "The guy beat them up, but since he use super broken space magic stones instead of his own strength, I can't say he defeated them" citing yourself "Sounds pretty stupid, right?" It would be different if we were discussing whether it was a fair victory or not, but that is not the case.
"Might as well consider her holding down the dog to retrieve Lilith as a victory then"
(sigh) ... The example I gave was a fight. Tell me how the hell are both scenarios comparable? your comparison makes no sense.
"Magnificent feats"
Okay. Now you are simply imagining things. When I said that defeating sakuras familiar was a great feat? The only thing I said was that defeating it counted as a victory (victory =/= great feat). Never, in any part of my last comment did I mention it was a great feat.
I remind you of all this discussion start because I affirm that Shamiko has had some victories. That is all that I am defending right now. And wherever you look at it, the defeat of the familiar is an undeniable victory of Shamiko. Hell, not only does it meet all the requirements you mentioned before (No luck. No help. Done on her own, and that last fact doesn't change just because she used the "Whatever Staff"), even Momo and Shamiko themselves considered that a victory (Shamiko called it her first victory). And nothing you said in your previous comment refutes that it is.
"Can we stop now? This is just not worth it."
If you want to stop, go ahead. I am not forcing you to answer me. I'm answering you because I want to, but if you don't think it's worth it, then just ignore me.
last edited at Nov 15, 2019 12:01AM
Nezchan Nov 15, 2019 3:39PM
No, just ignore each other from here on. There's no point in continuing any further.
blopa Nov 17, 2019 4:25PM
You're asking the impossible, Nezchan. If you think this is bad, you should chpter discussions in Mangadex. ALL of them...