0v0 hawt. although I’m curious whether I’m missing out something or there’s been a lack of gudako ships lately.
last edited at Apr 10, 2019 3:06AM
Clueless1
Apr 10, 2019 4:17AM
Second place!
BugDevil
Apr 10, 2019 4:58AM
Mode Red on bottom? More likely than you'd think.
Homura E.N.D
Apr 10, 2019 8:11AM
GIMME A DOUJIN WITH THIS SCENE PLS I WILL PAY
none
Apr 10, 2019 11:11AM
An unusual expression on Mordred's face. A very nice one.
EiraValkyrie
Apr 10, 2019 2:05PM
Isn't Mordred quite adamant that he's not a woman though?
BugDevil
Apr 10, 2019 2:18PM
^Nah. Everyone refers to her as a she and she doesn't care.
EiraValkyrie
Apr 10, 2019 2:21PM
Well, Japanese doesn't have gendered pronouns you know.
Those are localized into languages that refuse to accept ungendered pronouns (and in some languages, ungendered nouns. French people have opinions on the gender of bridges). From what I can tell, Mordred gets pretty damn pissed off when explicitly referred to as a woman
Mayjaplaya
Apr 10, 2019 6:29PM
Japanese doesn't work the exact same way as any other western language, but it definitely has pronouns that are usually implied to be one gender or another in context.
You can pretty easily talk about other people without implying gender as well about yourself, but when you do want to imply it, you do have ways to do it as well. And yes, Mordred get pissed when you specifically refer to her as a woman.
FluffyCow
Apr 10, 2019 7:49PM
I wouldn't say "he" is accurate either, Mordred isn't trans. It's more that she doesn't want to be treated like a woman because she grew up hiding her gender in order to be one of the knights of the round table, as part of her infiltration to kill Arthur. Similar to King Arthur assuming the role of being a "man" solely for the sake of being the King. Mordred wants to be treated like she's on par with the guys in terms of rough housing, combat, and being "manly".
She's also Tsundere and gets mad about a lot of things, I don't think she 100% rejects the notion of being treated like a woman, necessarily, it's mostly that she finds it embarrassing. That's the main thing, I don't think she has a problem with being referred to as "she", Japanese or other language translation, it's just that she doesn't want to be treated like a woman, because her idea of being a knight and a warrior is associated with the dated idea that those are things guys did. Which makes sense because she's from old England.
Ultimately at the end of the day Mordred is a conflicted character, who was thrust into that role by her mother, Morgan. Mordred desires the acknowledgement and parental love of Arthur while also being destined to kill her.
last edited at Apr 10, 2019 8:26PM
FluffyCow
Apr 10, 2019 9:17PM
Additional note. Part of Mordred's character is that she desired to be King, a worthy heir to Arthur. However Arthur told her that she's not fit to rule. If I remember correctly Arthur communicated that poorly, she likely meant that Mordred isn't fit to rule because Mordred is quick to anger, rash, and not emotionally stable enough to rule fairly. Mordred took it poorly, which is understandable, but that lead to feelings of self doubt and hating Arthur. That lead to Arthur's eventual death.
I firmly believe the things Mordred identifies as are, Heir/King, Knight and Warrior. Which happen to be "male" things in that society, so Mordred not wanting to be treated in a feminine manner are more of a side product of society excluding women from those rules, especially in one like Camelot and old England. So I'd argue the focal point is how society views gender and the roles tied to gender.
Tldr: Society and it's conditioned ideas of gender roles are a pain in the ass, have been, and still unfortunately are a pain in the ass a lot the time.
last edited at Apr 10, 2019 9:30PM
juanelric
Apr 11, 2019 9:17AM
Mordred looks like a boy here lol
Mugino
Apr 12, 2019 11:38PM
Isn´t a knight supposed be on top?
random
Apr 13, 2019 7:57AM
^iunno, considering that term is derived from a word (knecht) meaning "servant"... which is something of a peculiarity of English, as in virtually every other European language it's derived from "horseman/rider" (chevalier/caballero/Ritter etc.) instead.
Nevri
Apr 13, 2019 5:17PM
@FluffyCow
I know there are many versions of Arthurian legends, but in Fate version while Mordred indeed was raised as a tool to overthrown Arthur and become the next king, Mordred herself did not care about any of that. She worshiped Arthur as perfect king and was "his" biggest fan. When Morgan told her she is actually Arthur's "son", but "he" would never accept her, Mordred didn't care. She was overjoyed she was related to person she admired. She rushed to king, wanting "him" to recognize her as "his" "son", but Arthur rejected her, not wanting to acknowledge they're of the same blood. That pissed Mordred off and all the love she carried for "him" turned into hatred instead. Believing "he" will never accept her because of her connection to Morgan, she decided to raise a rebellion against "him" to overthrown "him". It's true Arthur meant that Mordred wasn't ready to be king yet, but it was "his" refusal to acknowledge their bond that fucked up everything.
last edited at Apr 13, 2019 5:20PM
random
Apr 13, 2019 10:08PM
^Usually formulated as "humble", not that warrior classes were much good at that anywhere ever. More importantly obedience to your superiors in the feudal totem pole was a big deal (especially if you asked those superiors) what with knights originally being the lords' armed retinues but, well, let's just say that historians of the Middle Ages have the phrase when my man is not my man for a reason...
last edited at Apr 13, 2019 10:09PM
Wlfking
Apr 14, 2019 8:33PM
Niiiiice! looks hell of a discussion you all got going here.
I love Fate. Has the highest number of characters I despise tho. But balanced by so many good characters.
Hachimitsu Apr 10, 2019 3:03AM
0v0 hawt. although I’m curious whether I’m missing out something or there’s been a lack of gudako ships lately.
last edited at Apr 10, 2019 3:06AM
Clueless1 Apr 10, 2019 4:17AM
Second place!
BugDevil Apr 10, 2019 4:58AM
Mode Red on bottom? More likely than you'd think.
Homura E.N.D Apr 10, 2019 8:11AM
GIMME A DOUJIN WITH THIS SCENE PLS I WILL PAY
none Apr 10, 2019 11:11AM
An unusual expression on Mordred's face. A very nice one.
EiraValkyrie Apr 10, 2019 2:05PM
Isn't Mordred quite adamant that he's not a woman though?
BugDevil Apr 10, 2019 2:18PM
^Nah. Everyone refers to her as a she and she doesn't care.
EiraValkyrie Apr 10, 2019 2:21PM
Well, Japanese doesn't have gendered pronouns you know.
Those are localized into languages that refuse to accept ungendered pronouns (and in some languages, ungendered nouns. French people have opinions on the gender of bridges). From what I can tell, Mordred gets pretty damn pissed off when explicitly referred to as a woman
Mayjaplaya Apr 10, 2019 6:29PM
Japanese doesn't work the exact same way as any other western language, but it definitely has pronouns that are usually implied to be one gender or another in context.
https://www.japanesewithanime.com/2016/08/watashi-boku-ore-meaning.html
https://www.japanesewithanime.com/2016/10/kare-kareshi-kanojo-meaning.html
Nevri Apr 10, 2019 6:34PM
You can pretty easily talk about other people without implying gender as well about yourself, but when you do want to imply it, you do have ways to do it as well. And yes, Mordred get pissed when you specifically refer to her as a woman.
FluffyCow Apr 10, 2019 7:49PM
I wouldn't say "he" is accurate either, Mordred isn't trans. It's more that she doesn't want to be treated like a woman because she grew up hiding her gender in order to be one of the knights of the round table, as part of her infiltration to kill Arthur. Similar to King Arthur assuming the role of being a "man" solely for the sake of being the King. Mordred wants to be treated like she's on par with the guys in terms of rough housing, combat, and being "manly".
She's also Tsundere and gets mad about a lot of things, I don't think she 100% rejects the notion of being treated like a woman, necessarily, it's mostly that she finds it embarrassing. That's the main thing, I don't think she has a problem with being referred to as "she", Japanese or other language translation, it's just that she doesn't want to be treated like a woman, because her idea of being a knight and a warrior is associated with the dated idea that those are things guys did. Which makes sense because she's from old England.
Ultimately at the end of the day Mordred is a conflicted character, who was thrust into that role by her mother, Morgan. Mordred desires the acknowledgement and parental love of Arthur while also being destined to kill her.
last edited at Apr 10, 2019 8:26PM
FluffyCow Apr 10, 2019 9:17PM
Additional note. Part of Mordred's character is that she desired to be King, a worthy heir to Arthur. However Arthur told her that she's not fit to rule. If I remember correctly Arthur communicated that poorly, she likely meant that Mordred isn't fit to rule because Mordred is quick to anger, rash, and not emotionally stable enough to rule fairly. Mordred took it poorly, which is understandable, but that lead to feelings of self doubt and hating Arthur. That lead to Arthur's eventual death.
I firmly believe the things Mordred identifies as are, Heir/King, Knight and Warrior. Which happen to be "male" things in that society, so Mordred not wanting to be treated in a feminine manner are more of a side product of society excluding women from those rules, especially in one like Camelot and old England. So I'd argue the focal point is how society views gender and the roles tied to gender.
Tldr: Society and it's conditioned ideas of gender roles are a pain in the ass, have been, and still unfortunately are a pain in the ass a lot the time.
last edited at Apr 10, 2019 9:30PM
juanelric Apr 11, 2019 9:17AM
Mordred looks like a boy here lol
Mugino Apr 12, 2019 11:38PM
Isn´t a knight supposed be on top?
random Apr 13, 2019 7:57AM
^iunno, considering that term is derived from a word (knecht) meaning "servant"... which is something of a peculiarity of English, as in virtually every other European language it's derived from "horseman/rider" (chevalier/caballero/Ritter etc.) instead.
Nevri Apr 13, 2019 5:17PM
@FluffyCow
I know there are many versions of Arthurian legends, but in Fate version while Mordred indeed was raised as a tool to overthrown Arthur and become the next king, Mordred herself did not care about any of that. She worshiped Arthur as perfect king and was "his" biggest fan. When Morgan told her she is actually Arthur's "son", but "he" would never accept her, Mordred didn't care. She was overjoyed she was related to person she admired. She rushed to king, wanting "him" to recognize her as "his" "son", but Arthur rejected her, not wanting to acknowledge they're of the same blood. That pissed Mordred off and all the love she carried for "him" turned into hatred instead. Believing "he" will never accept her because of her connection to Morgan, she decided to raise a rebellion against "him" to overthrown "him". It's true Arthur meant that Mordred wasn't ready to be king yet, but it was "his" refusal to acknowledge their bond that fucked up everything.
last edited at Apr 13, 2019 5:20PM
random Apr 13, 2019 10:08PM
^Usually formulated as "humble", not that warrior classes were much good at that anywhere ever. More importantly obedience to your superiors in the feudal totem pole was a big deal (especially if you asked those superiors) what with knights originally being the lords' armed retinues but, well, let's just say that historians of the Middle Ages have the phrase when my man is not my man for a reason...
last edited at Apr 13, 2019 10:09PM
Wlfking Apr 14, 2019 8:33PM
Niiiiice!
looks hell of a discussion you all got going here.
I love Fate. Has the highest number of characters I despise tho. But balanced by so many good characters.