after the events of volume 3 i am crying a literal sea of tears right now
seki108
Mar 2, 2019 12:52AM
The best ship will always live on in my heart, on a boat made of Nuts and Dolts.
Sup
Mar 2, 2019 12:57AM
My post season 3 depression is coming back dammit
Omega Deuse
Mar 2, 2019 1:01AM
Question: Penny is a robot and her body was cut in half. Depending on where her memory and central processor were, shouldn't she be relatively easy to rebuild/resurrect?
Snapdragon beans
Mar 2, 2019 2:13AM
^I think she had an unique soul and that left when she died so she won't be coming back.
I'm hoping that we meet other Pennies though, but they won't have the memories that Ruby's Penny did.
Random Wanderer
Mar 2, 2019 6:29AM
Penny indeed had a soul. She described herself as the first synthetic being able to generate an aura. Aura, in that world, is a unique property of the soul. Thus, unless it eventually is revealed that her injuries weren't, in fact, fatal (meaning that her soul didn't leave her body), fixing the body still wouldn't bring back the actual PERSON of Penny.
majere
Mar 2, 2019 7:30AM
Penny's death didn't make much sense and seems largely just like a cheap ploy for shock value because A) being dismembered shouldn't be anything more than inconvenient for a robot designed specifically for combat and B) magnetic shielding exists and you'd think it would be employed to protect the "brain" hardware of your incredibly sophisticated and important state of the art robot so she didn't get murdered by a stray magnet..
Swag Wagon
Mar 2, 2019 12:08PM
^ Exactly this. What point is there in having a robot or Android character if you don't make use of the fact they can be rebuilt? What was the point of her being a robot at all if we were meant to take her death seriously? If her death is supposed to be final why not just make her character human from the start? I thought it was some set up to have her "dramatically" show up the next season.
GumiXLilyOTP
Mar 2, 2019 12:11PM
YES!!!
random
Mar 2, 2019 12:32PM
^^A lot of that really comes down to the "technological assumptions" made about how AI works in the setting in question; still, it's self-evidently the baseline that long as the computer core housing one is intact the platform carrying it around is readily enough replaceable.
And yeah a combat model is going to have hardware surge protection and whatnot up the wazoo already to avoid frying from damage-related power spikes and similar inevitable disturbances in its own systems...
You seem to have some rather odd ideas about robots, AI and the like in fiction though. They can certainly be used for far more - and far more sophisticated storytelling - than merely showing off their relative robustness compared to squishy organics! Existential ruminations tend to feature prominently for fairly obvious reasons - and the irrecoverable destruction of a sentient machine not being meaningfully different from the death of a living being is certainly in itself a poignant statement about such questions, whatever the competency of the writing now might be.
BugDevil
Mar 2, 2019 12:44PM
^In summary: You don't know why it happened either and think the concept of AI can be used differently (even though it wasnt in the show). Jeez, you have a way to bloat your replies.
random
Mar 2, 2019 12:49PM
^I prefer to actually write out my reasoning.
BugDevil
Mar 2, 2019 1:06PM
^The first paragraph just agreed with the previous statements. There was no need to elaborate on possible mechanical layouts in a show that gives you nothing to latch onto. A waste of space.
The second paragraph could have been half as long with the exact same amount of reasoning. You just like to use flowery language for the sake of it.
I'm sorry for having these averse reactions to your comments. You can bloat them as much as you want. I'll try to ignore it from now on.
Đéo care
Mar 2, 2019 1:28PM
;_;
random
Mar 2, 2019 2:06PM
^^Agreement is not incompatible with discussing topical details hithero unmentioned in the conversation.
And, yes, I also prefer to practice my skills with English language more complex than found in the average Twitter post. (Not a native speaker so I need the exercise, anyway.)
BugDevil
Mar 2, 2019 3:29PM
^Some may call that overcompensation, but you do you.
whiterose16
Mar 2, 2019 3:58PM
Penny ;-;
random
Mar 2, 2019 5:23PM
^^And some might call that being a nattering Philistine for no obvious reason.
Swag Wagon
Mar 2, 2019 7:28PM
^ While I do understand what the show writers were trying to do, and I can also totally understand how others can make justifications for it, and have it make sense, that doesn't mean I can agree with the decision.
The caveat to fan interpretations is that anything can be justified with enough effort. Fictional universes always come with their own rules, that is a given. They don't even need to follow the rules of the real world to be believable, they just need to follow their own. This is also known as the suspension of disbelief, not necessarily important, but interesting to know. These rules can be bent and twisted and flipped around and they would still be fine, but the point where it breaks is the problem.
My issue with the Penny situation has roots in my issue with the new direction for RWBY as a whole, so here we go I guess.
RWBY up to this point had been a fun action filled light hearted romp of pretty girls breaking the laws of physics. It was also a cliche storm of weirdness, and that's fine. There is nothing wrong with an avalanche of cliches. Cliches are fun, they're expected, they're forgiven because "holy shit that girl ran up a wall with magic and decapitated bird monster with a huge ass scythe!" That's fun right? If this followed real world rules, would we ever get to see that?
So this universe introduces a new character. This character is a robot. Robots in other fictional works are essentially immortal. Robots can be dismembered, and crushed and tossed around, but as long as their memory is intact, they'll be fine, more or less. This universe has used this logic before, that's how other universes do it, what reason do we have to think there is a change?
So, this character is destroyed in a way that in other shows would be a "flesh wound" for that character. That's what we expect. So we wait. And then nothing happens. This character is treated like any other human character. Dead is dead. That is sad.
Okay. Cool. But why though? Why didn't she get a second chance? Was her being a robot completely irrelevant? Was the lesson here "All life is precious, even artificial ones?" Okay. Cool. Still doesn't explain what happened. If there is one, why wasn't it given, in universe, even if it was much later? "Because death is dramatic," still isn't an acceptable answer because it doesn't address the fact she is a robot. I'm all for subverting expectations and sudden genre tonal shifts, but if it breaks that suspension of disbelief the plot twist isn't worth it.
edit: that was... way more words than I thought I wrote... if a mod has issues with what I've just done I am 100% willing to paring this down or deleting it outright
last edited at Mar 2, 2019 7:31PM
BugDevil
Mar 3, 2019 2:56AM
@random Don't use words you don't understand. Unless you believe your overcompensating excess of word salads to be art or "culturally important", don't call people Philistines for not buying into it.
@Swag Wagon Even if I don't necessarily agree with their decision, I believe it was all part of the tonal shift RWBY went through at the end of season 3. This was set up for a while and, considering Monty Oum was still involved, always the planned outcome. Among the many drastic losses that happened in rapid succession this doesn't seem too out of place.
I'm just talking about narrative theming here of course, logically speaking that death leaves much to be desired. An explanation for example.
random
Mar 3, 2019 1:06PM
^Philistine (noun)
2 a: a person who is guided by materialism and is usually disdainful of intellectual or artistic values
Since your needless jabbering mostly appears to be basic hostility to erudition that seems about right. (2 b may also be relevant, depending.) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
^^That's what I meant with "competency of writing" and where I agree with Buggy here. The death may have been thematically an dramatically entirely fitting, but that does not mean it made much logical or even necessarily narrative sense - would hardly be the first time a poignant theme is handled in a clumsy and nonsensical fashion. It's sadly only too common for writers and directors to fumble hard on Big Topics™ and just come across as ham-fisted and gratuitous.
BugDevil
Mar 3, 2019 1:23PM
^Nicely done. Your ability to twist things in your favor is almost commendable. But not really. Your replies had no intellectual or artistic value, are not relevant to cultural expression or anything of the like, thus I'm not a Philistine for disliking your attitude (and the required materialism half of the definition has no relevance at all, so another painful misstep on your part). It's easy to pretend that your overcompensation is a sign of education, but it is not. Anyone with half a brain can google vocabulary and subjects to needlessly elaborate on them in a comments section. You have only proven once again that you use big words with little contextual relevance. Let's just say I can tell a poser from the real deal.
And with that I'm done here.
random
Mar 3, 2019 1:49PM
^Getting a strong sense of déjà vu here for some reason...
Nevri
Mar 3, 2019 1:53PM
Sorry had to
last edited at Mar 3, 2019 1:53PM
Nevri
Mar 3, 2019 2:08PM
On actual topic. Here is amazing in dept analyze of everything wrong with RWBY. I didn't even notice half of that stuff when watching it (disclaimer: I only watched first 2 seasons, but I still had some issues with them myself). Sure there might be few things I disagree with, but compare to so many well reasoned and explained points, it really is irrelevant.
majere
Mar 8, 2019 7:14AM
Finding out Penny existed and then 30 seconds later finding out she only existed to be a sunny, sympathetic character they could kill off for shock value is quite possibly the fasted I've ever gained and then completely lost interest in a franchise.
iPhoenix26
Sep 6, 2020 7:48PM
Well, as of Volume 7, she's back to life, so you can all stop complaining
RayZone Mar 1, 2019 10:18PM
Penny ;-;
shinystewshine Mar 1, 2019 11:57PM
after the events of volume 3 i am crying a literal sea of tears right now
seki108 Mar 2, 2019 12:52AM
The best ship will always live on in my heart, on a boat made of Nuts and Dolts.
Sup Mar 2, 2019 12:57AM
My post season 3 depression is coming back dammit
Omega Deuse Mar 2, 2019 1:01AM
Question: Penny is a robot and her body was cut in half. Depending on where her memory and central processor were, shouldn't she be relatively easy to rebuild/resurrect?
Snapdragon beans Mar 2, 2019 2:13AM
^I think she had an unique soul and that left when she died so she won't be coming back.
I'm hoping that we meet other Pennies though, but they won't have the memories that Ruby's Penny did.
Random Wanderer Mar 2, 2019 6:29AM
Penny indeed had a soul. She described herself as the first synthetic being able to generate an aura. Aura, in that world, is a unique property of the soul. Thus, unless it eventually is revealed that her injuries weren't, in fact, fatal (meaning that her soul didn't leave her body), fixing the body still wouldn't bring back the actual PERSON of Penny.
majere Mar 2, 2019 7:30AM
Penny's death didn't make much sense and seems largely just like a cheap ploy for shock value because A) being dismembered shouldn't be anything more than inconvenient for a robot designed specifically for combat and B) magnetic shielding exists and you'd think it would be employed to protect the "brain" hardware of your incredibly sophisticated and important state of the art robot so she didn't get murdered by a stray magnet..
Swag Wagon Mar 2, 2019 12:08PM
^ Exactly this. What point is there in having a robot or Android character if you don't make use of the fact they can be rebuilt? What was the point of her being a robot at all if we were meant to take her death seriously? If her death is supposed to be final why not just make her character human from the start? I thought it was some set up to have her "dramatically" show up the next season.
GumiXLilyOTP Mar 2, 2019 12:11PM
YES!!!
random Mar 2, 2019 12:32PM
^^A lot of that really comes down to the "technological assumptions" made about how AI works in the setting in question; still, it's self-evidently the baseline that long as the computer core housing one is intact the platform carrying it around is readily enough replaceable.
And yeah a combat model is going to have hardware surge protection and whatnot up the wazoo already to avoid frying from damage-related power spikes and similar inevitable disturbances in its own systems...
You seem to have some rather odd ideas about robots, AI and the like in fiction though. They can certainly be used for far more - and far more sophisticated storytelling - than merely showing off their relative robustness compared to squishy organics! Existential ruminations tend to feature prominently for fairly obvious reasons - and the irrecoverable destruction of a sentient machine not being meaningfully different from the death of a living being is certainly in itself a poignant statement about such questions, whatever the competency of the writing now might be.
BugDevil Mar 2, 2019 12:44PM
^In summary: You don't know why it happened either and think the concept of AI can be used differently (even though it wasnt in the show). Jeez, you have a way to bloat your replies.
random Mar 2, 2019 12:49PM
^I prefer to actually write out my reasoning.
BugDevil Mar 2, 2019 1:06PM
^The first paragraph just agreed with the previous statements. There was no need to elaborate on possible mechanical layouts in a show that gives you nothing to latch onto. A waste of space.
The second paragraph could have been half as long with the exact same amount of reasoning. You just like to use flowery language for the sake of it.
I'm sorry for having these averse reactions to your comments. You can bloat them as much as you want. I'll try to ignore it from now on.
Đéo care Mar 2, 2019 1:28PM
;_;
random Mar 2, 2019 2:06PM
^^Agreement is not incompatible with discussing topical details hithero unmentioned in the conversation.
And, yes, I also prefer to practice my skills with English language more complex than found in the average Twitter post. (Not a native speaker so I need the exercise, anyway.)
BugDevil Mar 2, 2019 3:29PM
^Some may call that overcompensation, but you do you.
whiterose16 Mar 2, 2019 3:58PM
Penny ;-;
random Mar 2, 2019 5:23PM
^^And some might call that being a nattering Philistine for no obvious reason.
Swag Wagon Mar 2, 2019 7:28PM
^ While I do understand what the show writers were trying to do, and I can also totally understand how others can make justifications for it, and have it make sense, that doesn't mean I can agree with the decision.
The caveat to fan interpretations is that anything can be justified with enough effort. Fictional universes always come with their own rules, that is a given. They don't even need to follow the rules of the real world to be believable, they just need to follow their own. This is also known as the suspension of disbelief, not necessarily important, but interesting to know. These rules can be bent and twisted and flipped around and they would still be fine, but the point where it breaks is the problem.
My issue with the Penny situation has roots in my issue with the new direction for RWBY as a whole, so here we go I guess.
RWBY up to this point had been a fun action filled light hearted romp of pretty girls breaking the laws of physics. It was also a cliche storm of weirdness, and that's fine. There is nothing wrong with an avalanche of cliches. Cliches are fun, they're expected, they're forgiven because "holy shit that girl ran up a wall with magic and decapitated bird monster with a huge ass scythe!" That's fun right? If this followed real world rules, would we ever get to see that?
So this universe introduces a new character. This character is a robot. Robots in other fictional works are essentially immortal. Robots can be dismembered, and crushed and tossed around, but as long as their memory is intact, they'll be fine, more or less. This universe has used this logic before, that's how other universes do it, what reason do we have to think there is a change?
So, this character is destroyed in a way that in other shows would be a "flesh wound" for that character. That's what we expect. So we wait. And then nothing happens. This character is treated like any other human character. Dead is dead. That is sad.
Okay. Cool. But why though? Why didn't she get a second chance? Was her being a robot completely irrelevant? Was the lesson here "All life is precious, even artificial ones?" Okay. Cool. Still doesn't explain what happened. If there is one, why wasn't it given, in universe, even if it was much later? "Because death is dramatic," still isn't an acceptable answer because it doesn't address the fact she is a robot. I'm all for subverting expectations and sudden genre tonal shifts, but if it breaks that suspension of disbelief the plot twist isn't worth it.
edit: that was... way more words than I thought I wrote... if a mod has issues with what I've just done I am 100% willing to paring this down or deleting it outright
last edited at Mar 2, 2019 7:31PM
BugDevil Mar 3, 2019 2:56AM
@random Don't use words you don't understand. Unless you believe your overcompensating excess of word salads to be art or "culturally important", don't call people Philistines for not buying into it.
@Swag Wagon Even if I don't necessarily agree with their decision, I believe it was all part of the tonal shift RWBY went through at the end of season 3. This was set up for a while and, considering Monty Oum was still involved, always the planned outcome. Among the many drastic losses that happened in rapid succession this doesn't seem too out of place.
I'm just talking about narrative theming here of course, logically speaking that death leaves much to be desired. An explanation for example.
random Mar 3, 2019 1:06PM
^Philistine (noun)
2 a: a person who is guided by materialism and is usually disdainful of intellectual or artistic values
Since your needless jabbering mostly appears to be basic hostility to erudition that seems about right. (2 b may also be relevant, depending.) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
^^That's what I meant with "competency of writing" and where I agree with Buggy here. The death may have been thematically an dramatically entirely fitting, but that does not mean it made much logical or even necessarily narrative sense - would hardly be the first time a poignant theme is handled in a clumsy and nonsensical fashion. It's sadly only too common for writers and directors to fumble hard on Big Topics™ and just come across as ham-fisted and gratuitous.
BugDevil Mar 3, 2019 1:23PM
^Nicely done. Your ability to twist things in your favor is almost commendable. But not really. Your replies had no intellectual or artistic value, are not relevant to cultural expression or anything of the like, thus I'm not a Philistine for disliking your attitude (and the required materialism half of the definition has no relevance at all, so another painful misstep on your part). It's easy to pretend that your overcompensation is a sign of education, but it is not. Anyone with half a brain can google vocabulary and subjects to needlessly elaborate on them in a comments section. You have only proven once again that you use big words with little contextual relevance. Let's just say I can tell a poser from the real deal.
And with that I'm done here.
random Mar 3, 2019 1:49PM
^Getting a strong sense of déjà vu here for some reason...
Nevri Mar 3, 2019 1:53PM
Sorry had to
last edited at Mar 3, 2019 1:53PM
Nevri Mar 3, 2019 2:08PM
On actual topic. Here is amazing in dept analyze of everything wrong with RWBY. I didn't even notice half of that stuff when watching it (disclaimer: I only watched first 2 seasons, but I still had some issues with them myself). Sure there might be few things I disagree with, but compare to so many well reasoned and explained points, it really is irrelevant.
majere Mar 8, 2019 7:14AM
Finding out Penny existed and then 30 seconds later finding out she only existed to be a sunny, sympathetic character they could kill off for shock value is quite possibly the fasted I've ever gained and then completely lost interest in a franchise.
iPhoenix26 Sep 6, 2020 7:48PM
Well, as of Volume 7, she's back to life, so you can all stop complaining