People who are saying this is rape I suspect have never had an actual sexual relationship with another human being.

I dearly hope you aren't saying this as in "I routinely force myself on my partner when they say 'I don't want to have sex today'".

??? She's just unemployed? There's plenty of legitimate reasons someone might be unemployed. This is pretty excessively harsh on a girl we still know very little about.

She seems to have been unemployed for multiple years, though, and I think the more telling thing is that she was seemingly ungrateful and didn't bother doing chores even when living at Ruriko's place for free. Then she meets Ruriko again and literally the first thing she does is ask to freeload some more, even though Ruriko is now married. That is... not a good look, to be frank.

Anyway, mikami announced this manga is coming to its end

Huh, I didn't realise it was being published elsewhere than ガンガン. Sad news, since the later chapters are much more consensual, which is why I stuck with this. Would've really liked to see more of their relationship as an official couple adapted.

Isn't your logic a bit circular there? "Rapeyness doesn't make it trash, because rapeyness is normal in trashy smut"...? It's a bit strange to try and come to the defense of the scene while at the same time calling it trashy, which basically means you're agreeing with the criticism...?

This story has/had the potential to be a lot more than trashy smut, so it's no surprise that people are disappointed when they find it doesn't live up to its potential.

last edited at Sep 8, 2022 12:10PM

Soooo... they only have two rooms. Two has to share rooms. Is this the part where we start the fire on this slow burning romance?

Normal people brain: Of course the married couple would sleep together

Mangaka brain: Of course Rio will sleep with Ruriko, how else would I farm soapy melodrama out of this?

last edited at Sep 8, 2022 10:29AM

Aya forced her? Yes, that's right.

That is the literal definition of rape, yes.

Geez man you're too sensitive.

It's really childish to start insulting people for not loving the story you do. People are allowed to not like things.

last edited at Sep 8, 2022 9:50AM

I think the thing that strikes me the most as "bad writing" is that the rape just wasn't necessary. It contributes absolutely nothing to the story. It could be a plot element if it were actually treated as a big deal, as something thay caused tension between them, but she just rapes her and then the story glosses over it as if nothing happened. So why include it?

Minor-ish spoilers for people on the fence and who may want more information to decide whether they want to continue; no real details, just an answer to "does it get worse":
In terms of consent between Aya and Marika, this was the lowest point. It gets better from here. There is still something arguably even more problematic with side characters yet to come, but it's mostly in the background.

but it's really weird that some people just want to wave this away.

Well, I don't agree with it, but I understand why some other people have this reaction. The auhor themselves just waves it away... as frustrating as that is.

I heard from a guy hooking up with girls in Japan that some really do the "no, stop" thing during sex only to get frustrated when things actually stop. It's weird and kind of a turn off, like the culture hasn't caught up with basic consent.

This is a facet of Japanese culture, but what was depicted here has absolutely no relation to that. She explicitly said "I don't want to have sex today" (translated here as 'perverted things', which I don't really agree with, but I digress). That is not the same thing at all as moaning 'dame' during sex.

And despite what mangaka would have you believe, consent is understood in Japan, as much as it is anywhere else, anyways. (Reminder that there is an elected US politician who literally said rape doesn't exist in response to the matter of whether rape victims should be able to have abortions, a mindset more or less shared by roughly 40% of the US population)

That Marika is a brat and Aya is a brat tamer. I did this with my ex. The important thing in BDSM is to have a safe word, which they do mention in the light novel.

I wish that the scanlator could educate people like in the translator notes about brats and brat tamers.

Um, you're free to have whatever headcanon you like to justify enjoying noncon if it makes you feel better, but let's not make things up and then tell off the translators for not appending your headcanon to the release. This interpretation is entirely in your head. They never mention anything about safe words or BDSM at any point.

Partial spoiler from the LN:
They actually do go into talking about using a safe word a little later on in the story. It's not a headcannon, Marika is an actual brat and Fuwa is well aware of how far she can push Marika in bed.

If it happens in volume 2+, it doesn't really pertain to this scene in any way, does it? I read the first LN and there was nothing about this; consenting to more sex at a later time doesn't retroactively mean a rape stops being rape.

As a totally unrelated aside, this terminology weirds me out. Not sure why it was deemed necessary to use a word normally used to describe children for fetish play...

I sincerely ask this not to be contentious with other people (because I found it pretty uncomfortable too), but to the people that were saying this scene was Rapey, how do you coincide that with her suddenly wanting to pleasure Aya?

My two cents is that regardless of Marika's internally conflicted feelings, she told Aya in absolutely no uncertain terms that she didn't want to, and it's not Aya's position to attempt to read Marika's mind, let alone make the decision about her conflicted feelings for her. It is extremely not okay to initiate sex with someone who firmly, repeatedly says no on the off-chance they might get into it after the fact.

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 1:02PM

Flowers is probably the best yuri VN, but they didn't lean into it being a VN enough. Even if it wasn't canon, a Suoh x Erika route would have been so good

Me four, this would be one of my favourites if it didn't go the hentai route with the whole "rape is okay as long as she felt good in the end" schtick. It's especially annoying because in one of the first chapters Aya explicitly says "I'm not like those gross old geezers, I won't force you to do anything you're uncomfortable with" and then... does.

That Marika is a brat and Aya is a brat tamer. I did this with my ex. The important thing in BDSM is to have a safe word, which they do mention in the light novel.

I wish that the scanlator could educate people like in the translator notes about brats and brat tamers.

Um, you're free to have whatever headcanon you like to justify enjoying noncon if it makes you feel better, but let's not make things up and then tell off the translators for not appending your headcanon to the release. This interpretation is entirely in your head. They never mention anything about safe words or BDSM at any point.

The last chapter came out only a month ago, compared to a 9 month gap between chapters 5 and 6.

To clarify, there was a specific reason for this too. The scanlators are translating the published volumes rather than the monthly online serialisation, which is heavily censored (even thigh shots with no panties visible get a big ol' censor).

And I was wondering if Kishiya goes to a college that requires a school uniform (never heard of that irl) but the consensus here seems to be that she isn't as old as she claims.

I don't think it was meant to be super ambiguous.

last edited at Aug 31, 2022 3:32PM

It's still ongoing. Chapter 11 just released on ガンガン yesterday and is freely available to read online, if you know Japanese. If you don't, you'll either have to wait for unpaid scanlators to find time to do it between all the things in life they do to earn money and for enjoyment or perhaps offer to pay somebody if you want them to adhere to a schedule.

I can't imagine any native speaker ever using this sentence in this context, and the fact that you think it's common makes even less sense to me.

Well, I've heard it plenty. We have apparently had different experiences, as humans are wont to do. Arguing is not going to get us anywhere, since I don't know and don't care whether it's grammatically correct; my point was merely that it's normal in my experience, but it's not like I can show you my memories.

last edited at Aug 30, 2022 9:08AM

I was watching it less as Yuri and more as Maho Shojo though and I haven't watched the movies

The yuri is definitely secondary in Madoka, it's no romance story, but even with that it's still so perfect in every regard I can't not consider it a magnum opus. I'd strongly recommend watching the movie if you get a chance, it's super good and really elevated the level of gayness too~

Too bad ロンガル seems to be ending so soon.

The good die young T_T

Anyway, I'm still looking forward to what these two dorks here are gonna do next month.

To redeem this chapter, I'm going to need some best friend kisses, at minimum. Just besties being besties, you know, totally normal.

TL corrections:

p.55 - "Do we have anything to eat here right now?"

"Did" is the wrong tense and "again" is just not right here. I'm just guessing that the original means to convey something more like "right now."

Is English perhaps not your native language? "Did we have anything to eat, again?" is a perfectly normal sentence, and your 'correction' changes the intended nuance. I'm not sure I can explain it very well, though. The original sentence is much more natural-sounding than what you proposed.

I guess if I were to try to explain... the "again" signifies that the speaker is trying to recall something they should already know. As in, "you already told me, but can you tell me again?". And "did we" is past tense because your question is technically about that past information, not about the current state of affairs, even though the former is also the latter. I'm not sure this explanation makes sense, but anyways, it's a common conversational phrase and the nuance is completely different because it puts emphasis on trying to remember something rather than simply asking outright.

Looking at the original manga, this translation is certainly correct. The Japanese text is also past-tense and uses 「っけ」, indicating that she's trying to remember.

p.59 - "Because I ran away...?" "Why did you run away?"

Verb tenses incorrect.

I looked at this page while I was at it, and while the translation is grammatically incorrect, I see how the mistake happened.

Both sentences are in present-tense. Accordingly, a correction more accurate to the original meaning would be:
"Because I'm running away...?"
"Why are you running away?"

last edited at Aug 30, 2022 7:24AM

the greatest Yuri opus to date (fite me)

Counterpoint: Madoka Magica

For some reason I actually didn't read YagaKimi until quite late, I think well into 2020 or maybe it was even 2021. I prefer ロンガル because it gives me more diabetes, though. I'm a sucker for low-drama wholesome gays. I see where you're coming from now, at least. The variety of human perspective sure is interesting~

Also look at us discussing not one but now even two other series in this thread and getting way off topic.

Such is the fate of a manga that torments its readers with this trope!

Oh don't get me wrong, there's a reason why I kept up with it despite the frustrations. I think it's mainly the stretch between chapter 10 and 16 that felt like they dragged on in that way. I particularly remember being annoyed by chapter 12's buzzkill

Ch. 10 is fair, I guess. I didn't mind it myself since I thought it was cute how hopeless Ayaka was, and it wasn't some super contrived interruption, at least (like having friends in the city randomly walk by the planeterium, right as they exit it, calling out at the exact moment if confession ......) But I can see how that one could be annoying.

Ch. 12 though?? She still uses her name in a heartwarming scene like 4 pages later. The final page of the chapter ends perfectly. Admittedly, given that's the case, I don't know what the point of the interruption even was though lol

I was reading since Ch1 and it's been my most-anticipated release ever since, so I can't agree that it's just a binge thing. It was easy for me to cut a lot of slack because they were practically a couple since the start and by chapter 10 they had already done far more Acts of Gay than most yuri, so it wasn't really that big of a deal to me that the idiot couple didn't manage to put a label on it immediately.

I mean, the constant "conveniently inconvenient" events that prevented progress between our lead characters in Can't Defy The Lonely Girl almost turned me off that series for a while before it shifted gears and is now slowly progressing a developing relationship.

I might be biased since ロンカル is one of my all-time favourites, but I never understood the complaints about it. They literally kiss in the first chapter, steadily making progress until they officially become girlfriends. And then the manga continues! Turns out it's possible to tell a story about two girls being in a relationship! It is an incredibly refreshing change of pace from every other mangaka who are so fundamentally incapable of writing anything other than "will they won't they" that they resort to incredibly forced cliches, not because the cliche makes logical sense or contributes positively to the story in any way but because they need to stall at all costs, as though their very life depends upon never having to write about girlfriends.

Edit: I just re-read the first volume of ロンガル to see if there was anything I was forgetting. Nope, still just as good as I remember. Chapter 1, they kiss. Chapter 2, they go on an arcade date and Ayaka starts getting expectations. Chapter 3, they hold hands, cuddle and sleep together. Chapter 4, they make out a bunch, Ayaka can't stop thinking about Sora, and gets her a gift. Chapter 5, amusement park date and Ayaka is in deep introspection over her feelings for Sora. No "convienently inconvenient events" at all, let alone "constant". Just tons of gay goodness while Ayaka realises she is, in fact, gay AF.

Edit 2: Reading volume 2, and now it's more like "constant convienently convienent events". A bit heavy on the tropes, but they're all pushing Ayaka forward on her baby gay growth, not artificially stalling the natural development of their relationship. While I'm still thoroughly confused by the comparison/criticism, I'm enjoying this excuse to re-read.

last edited at Aug 29, 2022 4:31AM

It's amazing how quickly a manga can go from "this is one of my favourite running manga" to "I'm so, so tired". The Heisei era called, and it wants its awful trope back.