Forum › Posts by circamoore

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

Uta is a minor, with no means of independent support, currently depending on abusively neglectful parents. If she gets together with Kaoru here and now, not only would that be an actual crime, but she wouldn't have any means by which to support or care for her. They'd have no support structure outside of maybe Kuro and maybe Reiichi? Society at large would just absolutely tear them to shreds over that relationship, not just because homosexuality still isn't that well-accepted in Japan, but because you have an adult woman who will be perceived to have "seduced" a minor within her own family.

It would be a clusterfuck, which, I mean, if you want drama, then yeah, it'll definitely get that, but I have the suspicion that the person saying they don't want a time skip just wants a happy ending, and that is -not- a happy ending.

If Uta gets together with Kaoru now, either Uta has to work part time or full time and has to drop out of school, or Kaoru has to support and provide for her. We already know Uta isn't satisfied depending on Kaoru and Reiichi, plus all of those create pretty messy power dynamics for the relationship.

The best thing for them, to have a stable, balanced relationship, is for Kaoru to get therapy (Probably unlikely) and a job, and for Uta to graduate and get an independent living situation so that they can FINALLY interact as peers and equals.

You are worst-casing this scenario. "Society" is just made up of people. Uta and Kaoru in a relationship would have little noticeable difference in public (PDA isn't much of a thing in Japan), only those close to them would know the difference (even if they notice, people who don't know them don't know the "famiily" connection anyway, so no worse than any other yuri). Reiichi is easygoing to a fault, and his only consistent motivation has been their wellbeing, it is extremely unlikely he would disown either of them for being together (it would also be nice growth for Reiichi to realize he can support Kaoru in ways other than just marrying her; the implication is he was more comfortable as her onii-san anyway).

It isn't a whole lot different than the stay-apart for a time-skip option - they would still have to "make their way", just a question of doing that separately or together. There is a good chance Uta is aiming for a scholarship, since there is no way she wants her mother calling the shots until she graduates. Uta's mother could try to make trouble, but the clear implication is that anyone who knows her doesn't like her, so her disapproval may have limited impact. Kaoru still has to figure out how to support herself, the only difference would be whether she has a supportive relationship while she does that.

I previously mentioned the possibility of the pov/emotional framing in early chapters as a misdirect, and it may apply here.

When Uta discovered Kaoru had handmade the necklace, the text was twisting the knife on Uta's emotional pain, but in the background was the implication that Uta thought the necklace looked professionally made.

Kaoru quitting her job to have more time to work on jewelry to sell was overshadowed by leading to a job for Uta. But in the background we had Kaoru working long days engrossed by it (not to mention Uta being impressed by her competence), and lots of sales being made.

We weren't given any info on the financials and we have been preconditioned to think of handmade jewelry as something middle class housewives do as an indulgent hobby, but there are people who make a living off it too.
There is the possibility that what seemed like a background detail was setting the scene for Kaoru's financial independence (mostly just that it doesn't have to be literally getting a job; but we also know she has managed to hold down a job in the past).

Finally those are all practical difficulties. Unrequited or not, this is a romance story, traditionally they tend more to overcoming practical difficulties than surrendering to them.

I'm not saying they would have to leap into bed together, but I think they would have to at least address the relationship possibility before any major time skip. Without setting the scene and putting characters on a justified trajectory a time skip coming back with everything "fixed" is just deus ex machina.

There is scope for time skips, but not as a fixit. They have a lot of things to work though, so time intervals where they are dating (or even pre-dating, in each others lives, working out their feelings without labels) would be quite reasonable before it came to sex or moving in together.

tldr: shutting off all contact and trying desperately to quit each other for four years, then doing a complete about-face because of some arbitrary social milestone doesn't feel like it makes a whole lot of sense.

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

Honestly I feel like Kaoru deserves better than to settle for somebody just because they like her, too.

Sick people deserve treatment, not palliatives. I mean, it's not like I think Uta is incapable of helping her, or that it couldn't work out, but it's not an ideal starting place for a relationship.

Reiichi was the palliative, Uta has been helping her grow and confront her issues, it is literally right there in these last few chapters.

Even though Uta left before she woke up and she hasn't seen her since, plus the last few chapters seeing her worst fears essentially confirmed Kaoru hasn't completely broken down the way she did when she was "lost".

I'd be more worried about a relationship where the partners don't help each other than one where they do. Just so long as you are mindful of their needs too, recognizing someone who can meet your emotional needs can be a sign of healthy self-awareness.

There is nothing particularly magic about therapy, people should reach out for help however works for them. Kaoru's problems aren't unusual or complex - she needed to confront her fears (and her hopes) - and now she is doing that. No magic words are going to "fix" the fact that she doesn't like being alone, and wants to be loved; nor should they: most people "need" close friends/family to some extent. It is even perfectly human for her to fear being alone, just so long as she doesn't let fear stop her living her life.

The classic trope of chronic "confessionals"/life-coaching with a therapist (American TV style) is just a symptom of having no one in their life they trust enough to confide in (also handy for writers to drop emotional exposition, lol).

last edited at Jul 31, 2020 9:35PM

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_unrequited_love_ch03#6
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_unrequited_love_ch03#7

I completely agree with you, Kaoru basically uses Uta as "someone to love" when she doesn't feel like she's getting affection from Reichii,

If I recall rightly, Reiichi accused Kaoru of pursuing the hug thing with him purely as a pretext to hug Uta (ostensibly as part of her strategy to get Uta to open up), and she didn't deny it.

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

But then when Uta made her feelings clear, everything went hard in the opposite direction, all of which can be rationalized on psychological/character grounds, but making "where does this story think it's going?" more of an open question than ever.

This story's direction was clear right from the beginning. Only if you read the necklace moment as a romantic development and hoped/thought it meant they were going to end up together, it doesn't make sense.
It makes sense right from the start if Kaoru never had any romantic feelings towards Uta.
These scenes that people keep mentioning are not much really. Hence why it's called Unrequited Love. Kaoru is attached to Uta, but that doesn't mean in a romantic sense.

The necklace incident was colored heavily by being told from Uta's pov - in the context of Uta dealing with the pain of experiences that gave her a taste of what a relationship might be, and was told very much in the shadow of her belief there was nothing there and her determination to get over it. It might turn out to have been a rather clever way to distract us from just how aggressively affectionate Kaoru's behaviour actually was.

Alone it could have just been Kaoru's sisterly impulses hitting a romantic cliche by chance, but that and other incidents seem to form a pattern - Kaoru has been pursuing an ersatz relationship with Uta, being a couple all but the sexual aspect. She was going beyond the emotional support role they had for years to use Uta to fill in for Reiichi's absence in their marriage. And it seems that she really liked her performance, because we saw her trying to take Uta along on a date even on a rare occasion she had Reiichi - and that was before she found out about Risako etc. Kaoru was shocked by Uta's confession, but once she had time to process it she upped the ante, abandoning her own bed to (blissfully) sleep beside Uta holding her hand, if anything knowing Uta is in love with her seems to have increased her feelings of affection and comfort. Who knows how far she will take it now she knows Reiichi isn't in love with her.

edit: since this occurred over the same period as Uta becoming aware of her feelings, one could even argue that Kaoru sensed the attention subconsciously and "leaned in".

last edited at Jul 29, 2020 7:51AM

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

Weren't you telling me only a week ago, re Risako, that being unable to give up an obsession with someone means attraction?

Yeah, except I don't think Risako's interest is simply an obsession. I think it starts from attraction, and because Risako is the person that she is, it gets expressed as obsession because she tries to suppress and erase the feelings instead of accepting them and move on.

At least this is based more on the reality that's presented by the manga, if you compare it to your own theory that's literally a headcanon about Risako's family.

It was't intended to be definitive, just an example of other plausible explanations for Risako's behaviour. Risako being in love with Kaoru is also just a headcanon, albeit a somewhat simpler one (but surely we would need some big info/assumptions about why someone as intelligent, self-aware, assertive and self-confident as Risako would just repress it all).

All we know with a fair level of certainty is that she doesn't seem to like Kaoryu and Reiichi being together, and that she doesn't seem to mind spending time with Reiichi (she kept dating him after high school until he dumped her, through a period when they didn't have much contact with Kaoru as far as we can tell).

Risako loving Kaoru wouldn't really do much for the story
* she's obviously not an example for Uta to consider (most of Uta's friends stories have helped Uta develop her ideas on love), positive or negative - since Uta is well past her in relationship development/self-discovery (and never seemed to consider bitter repressed denial as an option).
* she also isn't a feasible option for Kaoru. Kaoru already knows her quite well and doesn't like her, a love confession is unlikely to improve that at all (their relationship has only ever been sustained by Risako's persistence)

Kaoru ending up with someone else doesn't really do much, since Uta has never been waiting for her. Uta still thinks a relationship is impossible ( tho Koru's epiphany at the end of ch 35 suggests Kaoru might be about to do something that would change that )

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

But then when Uta made her feelings clear, everything went hard in the opposite direction, all of which can be rationalized on psychological/character grounds, but making "where does this story think it's going?" more of an open question than ever.

This story's direction was clear right from the beginning. Only if you read the necklace moment as a romantic development and hoped/thought it meant they were going to end up together, it doesn't make sense.
It makes sense right from the start if Kaoru never had any romantic feelings towards Uta.
These scenes that people keep mentioning are not much really. Hence why it's called Unrequited Love. Kaoru is attached to Uta, but that doesn't mean in a romantic sense.

Except that it isn't actually called that. It was originally called たとえとどかぬ糸だとしても and the official English translation has the title "If I Could Reach You". So not only is it reading too much into a title, it isn't even the right title. The title is a good match for the general theme of yearning, but doesn't really give us much insight into how it will be resolved.

Weren't you telling me only a week ago, re Risako, that being unable to give up an obsession with someone means attraction?

circamoore
Citrus + discussion 25 Jul 23:02
joined Feb 14, 2019

I have a lot of sympathy for Saburouta's possible frustration with Haru-Yuzu shippers (if that is what she feels; satire isn't necessarily spiteful).

If there is such a thing as yuri-exploitation genre, then a large part of it would be rooted in "bating" the "grey zone" between friendship and romance, keeping readers on the hook, without ever committing to anything (ironically what people accuse Citrus of doing). Not to say that there aren't legitimate stories in this area, but it is grossly over represented.

In Citrus it feels like we have a story that breaks the mold - not only is Yuzu-Harumi carefully constructed as a platonic friendship, but Yuzu-Mei is never put in the grey-zone. She was briefly confused at first, but Yuzu never pretended that she just wanted sisterhood or friendship from Mei - even when she was trying to be a "good sister" she explicitly knew that wasn't what she wanted.

We may have been kept in suspense about the outcome, but there was no doubt about the gay (of the lack of it for Haru-Yuzu).

last edited at Jul 25, 2020 11:03PM

circamoore
Citrus + discussion 25 Jul 22:20
joined Feb 14, 2019

when and how Saburouta hinted that Harumin has feelings for Yuzu? she just said "I love you too....as a FRIEND" that was just Harumin trolling around with Yuzu and I think that scene was needed to clear any doubt about Harumins intentions for Yuzu

She didn't need to clarify it though. If there was nothing there, a simpe "I love you too" would add up more. Like, you don't clarify the "as a friend" or "as a family member" etc, when you say I love you to your friends and family. Also the way her expression was drawn was weird.
Even better, because that scene was emotionally charged, a "I support you no matter what" would make even more sense. "Saying I love you too...as a friend", especially after someone comes out just makes me wonder.

I'm probably not doing much good trying to explain this, but honestly, that scene was done well, so here I go.

I know this is kind of the opposite of that classic advice, but have you tried looking at the pictures instead of just the words? (and the delivery of the words instead of just the words out of context).
A lot of meaning is conveyed though facial expressions in Citrus.

Regardless of any theories about Hrumi's secret feelings, that scene is clear. The "clarification" (punchline) was needed because Harumin wound her up with the tease "declaration" just before. She was making a joke to ease the tension because Yuzu was on edge (just look at the smirk on her face as she says it, that is not a "play though the pain" smile). Next frame she is shocked at how hard Yuzu took the joke. The story never made it explicit but it is likely Harumi guessed about Yuzu and Mei long before this, by the camp or even earlier. I suspect the implication is that Harumi felt Yuzu's admission was long overdue. If there is any subtext in that chapter, it is that "thank you for waiting" may have double meaning referring to Harumi waiting for her come out in her own time.

On a completely unrelated note, how did I only just notice that Harumi's surname is 谷口 when her character intro was about hiding things in her cleavage (maybe I just forgot).

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

Risako is a lesbian imo. And there were strong hints about that during that chapter where she and Kaoru were hanging out with their other friends, and Kaoru said something like "it must be nice that you can focus on your career and not be so dependant on someone" (a man, because as far as I remember they were talking about men before that)
And Risako was like "Do you think I like it?"

Harking back a bit, but might as well hit it while I am on a roll building castles in the air.

It is entirely possible for a heterosexual woman to be bitter and resentful towards the idea of a relationship with a man, yet not actually want to be alone.

atm my preferred headcanon for Risako's background is only child of a traditional fairly conservative family with high expectations. Most of the attention she would get from her parents would be bound up in their expectations of her as "heir". This is a common Japanese trope that we haven't seen yet in this series.

Things are moving, but Japan has a fairly entrenched culture of sexism. For a woman marriage => housewife => end of career (less common in the west now, but was ubiquitous several decades ago). Surely you've noticed it, even reading contemporary yuri manga - Milk Morinaga's cute little kitten - they can't get a house because it is assumed single women are just marking time until they get married; Kodama Naoko's I married my kohai... her supervisors don't give her any responsibility because they assume she isn't interested in a career. Even in this series, Kaoru quit her office job when she married Reiichi, and only does trivial part-time work, going crazy with boredom since there isn't really a household to housekeep.

As long as Risako is effectively single (this includes dating a no-hoper), she remains the focus of her parents expectations, but as soon as she is with someone "suitable" (ironically someone she can respect as an equal), her work won't take her seriously, and her parents expectations transfer to their son in law, and she is just the wife. It is enough to make anyone bitter.

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

An auxiliary note on Risako: tbh I would be disappointed if she is [just] a lesbian, though it is plausible/possible. Yet another "psycho lesbian stalking innocent straight protagonist" would feel like a let down.

Risako's actions have never quite aligned with her own claims, or with any obvious assumptions. We know nothing about her backstory, thus have little to go on to guess her motives. Blastaar would probably put it down to sloppy writing, but I'm still hoping tMnR is keeping her powder dry for an unexpected revelation.

One idea (I don't consider it in any way definitive) is that just as Kaoru looked to Reiichi as an embodiment of her desire for emotional security and family, Risako (in this case from a strict background constrained by high expectations) looks to Kaoru as embodying emotional freedom. She is fascinated by Kaoru's freedom to feel freely and wholeheartedly (often foolishly), admiring and envying her freedom (living though her vicariously, but not actually desiring Kaoru for herself). She wants to protect her, but sometimes she also hates her for how poorly she uses her freedom. In this scenario Risako might end up being a surprise ally for Uta/Kaoru.

edit: I feel this theory explains why Risako is at her cruelest when Kaoru is pathetically mooning over Reiichi, yet she mean to Kaoru (who has disappointed her), never to Reiichi (who she just considers pathetic).

last edited at Jul 23, 2020 10:13PM

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

It's contradictory when you say Kaoru could be a lesbian because we haven't essentially seen them doing the deed with Reichii or Kaoru drooling over him, but at the same time she never showed any sexual attraction towards Uta or any other woman. She even slapped Uta's hand away when she confessed.

I have to admit my first impulse here is to argue the point, but I don't think it will help, since we seem to be missing each other at a higher level, so I'll try coming at this from another angle.

Contradiction is about conflicting certainties, but I haven't been proposing certainties - I've been trying to argue against them (I even said I thought lesbian Kaoru was unlikely even if possible; it wouldn't really do anything for the story so it is unlikely from the 4th wall perspective too)

There are levels of plausibility/proof around a proposition. Very roughly
* It can be certain/proven
* It can be possible/not disproved
* It can be impossible/disproved.

In many (professional) contexts you will hear people use cumbersome phrases like "not inconsistent with evidence" this is to remind themselves that just because a hypothesis seems to line up with what we know doesn't mean it is proven ("reasonable doubt" is another thing that comes up in this area).

I haven't been arguing that Kaoru is definitely not straight, or that Risako is definitely not a lesbian, just that the evidence is far from conclusive, that there are possible/plausible alternatives.

eg we have never seen something Kaoru likes about Reiichi that doesn't apply at least as much to Uta.

Digressing a bit, since this isn't directly relevant to talking about fictional characters/author intent (as opposed to real people), I don't really like labels for people (to specific people, as opposed to people in general); they can too easily end up restricting choices instead of enabling them. They are a handy shorthand for talking and thinking about identity and patterns of behavior and feelings, which is great, just they shouldn't be taken too seriously (considered final/definitive).

From this perspective it seems like Kaoru and Risako have done a few things that seem to fit stereotypes/tropes and some people are rushing to jam them in those boxes, when I think tMnR is trying to write a more complex story.

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

Attraction doesn't always express itself a certain way. You don't have to "like someone's smell" to check attraction points.

But physical attraction of some sort is rather critical to whether her feelings for Reiichi are evidence of heterosexuality, even more so if we are talking heterosexual attraction to the exclusion of homosexual attraction (it wasn't a mandatory checklist, it was just a few examples of things that someone attracted to men, not just a particular person, might notice. My mom loves beards, but that definitely isn't Reiichi).

Although I think it is unlikely at this point, even lesbian isn't out of the question. Fixating on an idealised unattainable guy isn't unheard of for for lesbians still working things out (it is safely theoretical, and gives a handy reason for not being interested in available ones).

Edit: and some surveys suggest bisexual women are vastly more common than lesbians, so having been attracted to a man doesn't have much bearing on whether someone is likely to be attracted to women anyway.

last edited at Jul 23, 2020 8:20AM

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

Whatever Risako’s sexuality may be, a lot of people seem to be forgetting that her primary personality trait that has been revealed to us is that she rarely has feelings of any kind about other people, and when she does, she finds those feelings troublesome—-her interest in Kaoru is a rare exception to her lifelong habits and behavior patterns.

By all evidence she had no interest in Reiichi beyond his connection to Kaoru, nor is there any evidence that, although they were dating before Reiichi dumped Risako to marry Kaoru, Reiichi and Risako ever actually had sex.

I seem to find myself agreeing with Blastaar uncomfortably often lately ;)

I don't see much evidence for Risako's sexuality at all. She was lukewarm about Reiichi, and while she is obviously obsessed with Kaoru she describes it in terms of interest and curiosity, not as affection or attraction, not even friendly affection ( A trend which continues in chapter 35 where she uses the word 興味 literally interest/curiosity to describe her focus on Kaoru ). Sex/romance isn't the only force which drives interpersonal relationships, not even in this story, just look at Reiichi marring Kaoru. Just because it is yuri doesn't mean all the women are wlw, Kaoru's other friends are quite blatantly straight.

Kaoru is also rather non-committed. For all her "love" of Reiichi we've never seen signs of her loving him "as a man" in a physical sense, just as a character concept in her ideal romance (does she love his smell, his voice, his body? she didn't even notice when he switched out with Uta while she was asleep. Foreshadowing?). When her friends were playfully dissing him, she didn't defend his manliness, just her like of him. When Uta confessed Kaoru didn't bring up Uta's gender as a problem (even though it would have been a "go to" for most straight women looking to brush off another woman's confession). It really seems like gender doesn't mean that much to her.

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 17 Jul 07:41
joined Feb 14, 2019

It is a bit worrying. Right from the beginning this story had a "soul", and a feeling of earnestness that really drew me in, I felt Taiyaki's love for the characters and passion for the story that she was trying to tell. It would be a pity if too much polishing diminished that. Like most of the commenters here I don't feel the early roughness did much harm.

Obviously from I selfish point of view, I don't want to see a loss of momentum since we are at rather a cliff hanger story wise (mutual declaration). Rewrites can be a passion killer, I think that is the main fear, so maybe if there are things she is really passionate about achieving though a rewite/edit and has a clear goal then it could go in interesting places, but otherwise, since because of the incest theme it isn't suitable for the mass market, I fear she might find herself discouraged by by working hard without an obvious end.

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 06 Jun 00:34
joined Feb 14, 2019

Do you guys know if there are fanfics or sub reddits for this manga? Something to live with before the next chapter is out?

So does anyone know how Taiyaki feels about fanfiction? Overall doujin culture seems open enough to borrowing beloved characters, but the obvious area is anticipating "developments"... some authors find that sort of thing disconcerting/annoying.

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 24 May 06:14
joined Feb 14, 2019

Anyone else see this and think of Asuka going nuts over how cute Ayako is in the nekomimi headband? (probably after spending days wheedling her into wearing it).

I miss Ayako so much

Here, let me help:
Nyayako

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

So in ch33 it seemed like Kaoru directly compared Uta's and Reiichi's feelings for her ".. so how long have you?" (loved me). Convenient segue, or sign that she starting to measure Rei against Uta (which seems like it wouldn't end well for him)?

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

It's not like Kaoru is great herself either. In her own words, she's a coward, indecisive and hides her feelings. Like attracts like, it's not rocket science

The result may be the same, but the motives are different. Kaoru wants to talk but is afraid, Reiichi just wants to chill without drama.

It seems likely that Reiichi assumed because Kaoru was quiet and devoted that meant she was low-maintenance, while Kaoru assumed Reiichi's laid back kindness meant he was sensitive and caring... they were both mistaken.

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

Hey now, she'd been into her childhood friend well before that!

Which is probably part of the problem: he does care for her, but as his childhood friend or like a (normal) sister. It's a pity marriage without romantic spark.

The issue is not the longevity of Kaoru's feelings, the issue is: what does Reiichi have going for him that makes him so great to this particular person?

Now, I know that love doesn't work by a cost/benefit equation; you fall in love with who you fall in love with.

But this is a story with the theme of romantic attraction at the center of it (whether you want to characterize its genre as "romance" or not).

And the very reasonable question of why exactly Kaoru feels so strongly about Reiichi (who is at best--which means putting the whole issue of possible infidelity completely aside--a pretty drab, ordinary, low-charisma guy who pays little attention to Kaoru's emotional state), has been explicitly asked within the text itself, but has yet to be answered.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_unrequited_love_ch04#12

First and foremost it is clear that the Reiichi she originally fell in love with was a semi-fictional composite (which is the problem) - we saw in the flashbacks: Her feelings of hero-worship for the childhood onii-chan who was kind and comforted her when she was lonely. The idealised fantasy of her teenage crush. Then her white knight when he swept in and "saved" her from her grief-fueled depression after her mother's death (apparently returning her feelings, just like in her fantasies), and finally her socially acceptable husband setting her up as a respectable married-lady. He represents security and stability (and family which is very important to Kaoru). She has finally decided to try and sort the fact from the fiction to see what she can salvage though it doesn't look like he is going to be cooperative, since he seems to have decided she is "losing it"

He isn't entirely unlovable - he is cheerful, easygoing and kind. Most people would find that a pretty good package. Unfortunately he is is also massively lazy on the emotional level, not only does he not go looking for trouble he actively avoids it. When Kaoru is silent he takes that as a sign things are good, when it actually means the opposite. He would actually be a good match for someone like Risako, who would keep him on a short leash, and be very clear about telling him what she needs. He'd probably thrive on it.

circamoore
Daily Smile discussion 19 May 00:37
joined Feb 14, 2019

wait do we have a yuri author who's actually lesbian? lol. and one that doesn't just do stuff on their own life??

Wait, aren't such yuri authors, like, the most common type?

Most Yuri authors are either gonna be gay women or straight men from what I’ve seen, to relatively even amounts but slightly favoring gay women these days?

Tbh it doesn’t really matter cause despite what some ppl on this site may think they won’t be able to tell the difference 95% of the time as long as the writing is decent

It's not quite the same as being able to tell consciously, but not too long ago I went though my yuri favourites list and looked up the authors... 100% female, surprised myself actually.

There is plenty of stuff I like written by men, but it seems my top picks, the stuff that really resonates with me, is written by women.

last edited at May 19, 2020 12:38AM

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 08 May 21:54
joined Feb 14, 2019

Could it be there's a small mistranslation here?

They say "winter of the second year of high school" but everything they talk about actually happened to Asuka in her second year of middle school.

The original says "中学2年の冬" so yes, seems like (as opposed to 高学).

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 08 May 21:24
joined Feb 14, 2019

I wondered the same thing, all that stuff happened to Asuka in middle school, then her senpai graduated and went to a different high school than she did.

Off on a tangent, but Miyuki was already in the final year of high school when she was involved with Asuka (she's 4 years older).

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

... I’m almost always talking about how stories are made while others are talking about hypothetical human beings.)

That explains so much (did anyone else have a vision of Terry Pratchett's Discworld Auditors trying to define what makes a good story).

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

The overarching problem, and I do think it’s one that affects the storytelling negatively, is the almost uniform dedication of the major characters, with one obvious exception, to a remarkable, even pathological, degree of conflict avoidance:

  • starting (chronologically) with whatever the fuck is going on with Reiichi’s repeated failures to “get” Kaoru’s regularly delivered confessions in high school to
  • Reiichi’s abortive question about something or other to Uta to
  • Kaoru’s abortive attempt to confront Reiichi about seeing him with Risako to
  • Kaoru’s failure to “get” Uta’s confession on their trip to
  • Risako’s weird end run of (so the interpretation goes) her attraction to Kaoru manifesting itself as stealing away the guy Kaoru is in love with

Risako doesn't communicate her intentions, but I'm not sure it can be described as conflict avoidance, more the opposite.

But agree Reiichi and Kaoru a both guilty of much conflict avoidance. Kaoru seems to want to resolve things (she has raised topics with Rei, and got as far as sitting down with Uta), but loses her nerve; Reiichi seems to be just straight up avoiding.

At this point it looks like Kaoru's feelings for Reiichi are entirely rooted in an elementary school crush on her hero onii-chan, while Reiichi may have just married her out of pity/obligation. They both may suspect that if they clear up all the misunderstandings in their marriage there won't be anything left.

I think the abortive Reiichi-Uta conversation was simply that he had noticed she seemed slightly "off" (we know it was due to stress over her feelings for Kaoru), he felt like he should ask if anything was wrong, but he didn't want to actually know if there was, because then he'd have to do something. I think it was there mainly to establish that his emotional avoidance is general, rather than specific to Kaoru (and that Uta's discomfort was noticeable).

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

Hmm, was Uta actually depressed/grieving, or were the others assuming she was because she seemed withdrawn and on edge, but that was actually due to her tension about lusting after Kaoru?

Uta only realised her romantic feelings at the wedding, a year before the story started. Her "bad times" were when she was with her parents, isolated from Kaoru, and her mood improved when she moved in with Kaoru and Reiichi (we haven't been told the exact timing, but I get the feeling that was significantly before the wedding: Uta has said things got steadily more painful since her realisation, implying there was good times before). Throughout Uta's childhood she had both Reiichi and Kaoru as support, she "lost" Reiichi to university, then a couple of years later "lost" Kaoru when she graduated and her mother died. At the same time Uta's mother got tangled in the professional scandal over Kaoru's mother's death, and probably went from absent/useless to actively negative influence.