I just finished the last Flowers game after spending the last week or so binge playing them all for the first time and. Woof. What a ride. I laughed, i cried, I yelled at the screen in frustration, and i loved every second of it!

You binged them in a week?! Skipping that much sleep sounds unhealthy! Even I took around a month to finish the three volumes that were out at the time. I do think playing them all in succession (with some healthy breaks) is best actually, as it lets you vividly remember all the details and catch even the smallest references and parallels in each successive release.

And now that it's over there's nowhere for these feelings to goooo

There are some drama CDs with extra content, but I have only found sparse translations for those. It is worth looking into if you are not sated just yet. There was also the artbook/compendium with extra information that was mentioned a couple of pages back. It seems to contain even vital information that would have been better off included in the actual VNs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XKtPmodBvA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNcQfkf0te4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qxpj80W2sM
This Youtuber went above and beyond to even recreate some of the drama CD scenes with the sprites and text boxes. This should be a treat for everyone who has or hasn't listened to them before (I picked the only 3 videos on that channel that matter, the rest is not relevant)

Considering Hiyama already admitted to herself that she can't say no, the time where things will go frisky is entirely dependent on when Kimura feels like rewarding her girlfriend after bearing all the teasing. Prepare at least a couple of defibrilators for that promised night.

I am glad that I chose to stick with the series beyond its repetitive beginning. I made no secret of how skeptical I was early on and how easily this could have devolved into a dead horse being kicked to dust, but the author knew what she was doing. Now I will always remeber this manga as a positive reminder of why sticking with a stumbling work can be rewarding.

last edited at Jun 26, 2023 6:19AM

godly manga. mochi's matured so much as an author

Mochi has always been a talented writer in my opinion. There is a yuri work on Dynasty that is written by Mochi, but drawn by another artist and I suspect many people would not even have been able to tell it was a Mochi story. The writing was just so good and, well, "normal" for a lack of a better term. Mochi's stories are deliberately more out there and weird, but they can absolutely go into deep or classic romance territory too.

I think what is much more impressive and noticable is how much Mochi matured as an artist. Again, to cite my own comment on that other work, "Professional art with Mochi's writing is the ultimate combination that elevates the work to its full potential." It used to be like that anyway. But now I can confidently say that Mochi's unique and personalized style is not an inhibition anymore. This manga looks good, especially in the later volumes. Volume 4 is a good example of Mochi trying out new things. It is no coincidence that there was such an action focus all of a sudden. The artwork showed off what Mochi can do now and to me it seemed like an artistic flex. Spreading of the wings.

The sense of making standout, yet simple character designs was always there. You will not confuse any character in this manga for another. This is one of the most important principles in manga and anime as an artform I believe. Too often artists draw the same exact character over and over and just change the hairstyle or outfit.
(Of course the lack of realism does lend itself to more bizarre designs and I understand that works trying to emulate real human looks are naturally handicapped in that regard)

Just looking at facial expressions, posing and outfit choice, Mochi's art is perfectly capable of drawing the eye and giving nuance that the older works definitely lacked.

last edited at Jun 26, 2023 4:56AM

Canon.

After reading the recent chapters again I feel a tangible shift in the way the story is conveyed. The most major shift is perhaps Toudou herself. Beyond her admitting her utterly uncontainable homosexuality, there is the fact that she is... less of a bastard so to speak. She used to be completely mean-spirited and honestly, beyond redemption. This is why her getting her comeuppance by the end of a chapter felt so satisfying. She was the villain and she got her just desserts. In the same way this was a way to justify when bad things happened to her - bad karma.

And while this dynamic is still retained in broad strokes, it definitely feels different. Toudou is acting less like a bastard and more like a goofy narcissist. Her foul-mouthed and combative nature are now treated more as strengths than flaws. It helps her break the ice and force other characters to show their true nature. And beyond that she can actually act... nice. She considers Kuroshiro a friend, she constantly forgives her horrible "best friend" her transgessions, she actually has a group to hang with now (inclding the himejoshi fortune teller). Then there is the matter of Rin, where once she didn't feel bullied or attacked anymore she opened up to her considerably and had wholesome interactions with her (and even before that she always praised her indirectly about all her talents).

If I had to pinpoint this shift it would be around the time she used the love potion on the teacher again. That was her absolute lowest point where she acted the most petty and disgusting (and got molested in the worst way as comeuppance). After that things started to change. I suppose when she got close to Rin and generally opened up to yuri after having sex with Yomotsuka. The question is whether Mochi course corrected after perhaps realizing it got too unpleasant or if this was always an intended bit of character growth.

Regardless, we went from an evil bastard trope to lovable no-filter agent of chaos and I find this to be a pleasant development.

It seems like Toudou isn't getting every one in her harem. The pairings are perfect so far.

If anything Toudou is orbiting Yomotsuka's harem it seems. That pres has some serious game (and apparently an S&M dungeon). No wonder she was so experienced in lesbian sex from chapter 1 and not to mention, completely unaffected by the fact she did this stuff to another girl. She does it on the regular.

last edited at Jun 23, 2023 1:52AM

I saved up chapters to get through the alleged rough patch of Volume 4, but I cannot comprehend why the original translators disliked it so. The action was a fun breath of fresh air and it really displayed Toudou's friend circle well, while also being genuinely funny. Yomotsuka being absolutely smooth during the entire event, avoiding exerting herself or getting hurt and ultimately reaping all the benfits while also flirting with her target was truly a sigh to behold.

With that out of the way, we have by now passed the threshold where the title is no longer necessary. Toudou does not even attempt to deny her attraction to girls anymore and is in fact pining for all the hotties around her. I like the constant mentions of what parts of the girls she finds attractive, her blushing at girls being dominant with her etc. She has never showed a single detailed interest in that teacher that is now long forgotten, but she has always been clear about how hot she finds girls. Good to see her being honest, especially in the latest chapters wth Yanagi and Rin. Surprisingly she seems to be the type who will have casual sex as long as it's a "hot babe".

Naturally she has an attention fetish, so that explains her focus on "say that I belong to you/I'm yours", but that also feeds into the harem dynamic. More attention and love gives her more happiness hormones. I seriously find it hard to imagine a scenario where she picks one of the girls to be her exclusive partner. It still seems to me that Yomotsuka is her favorite (also the one who took all her firsts), but I can't deny how genuine her affection for Rin seems now.

last edited at Jun 21, 2023 10:59AM

With this kind of dynamic I believe the most interesting thing to explore is how they ended up having their first time together. It is easy to see them continuing to hook up angrily after that first hurdle, but I am really interested to know how that first experience transpired. With neither acknowledging their interest in each other and both believing the other wants boyfriends it would be exceptionally bizarre for them to end up in that spot. Perhaps alcohol played a role, but that is almost too mundane.

I imagine a scenario (perhaps in high school) where they piss each other off so much and intentionally lie about their experience with boys to the point where they rile each other up into making it a contest about who is better in the sack. Of course by this point in the present day they acknowledge quite easily how they are attracted to each other's bodies, but during that illusive first time it would be really intriguing to see them slowly open up to what they like and where they feel good.

Alas, I am writing pointless plot ideas again...

last edited at Jun 21, 2023 11:15AM

Do not be sad that it ended, but be happy that it happened. That is all the comfort we have when something wonderful hits its conclusion. And wonderful this story truly was!

I did not expect the ring from Hiyama's constant gifts to come back after all this time - and with such a bold marriage proposal at that! Although Hiyama is as innocent as a young girl in love and doesn't understand what marking means, she still seems to have developed some minor backbone in the final chapter and actually survived Kimura's affections. The future looks bright for these two. I am not even mad that we never got a proper kiss on screen.

I would love to see a timeskip sequel chapter where we see lovehwipped bottom Hiyama being showered in affection and being pulled by the leash by her dominant wife Kimura in university or domestic life. One can only dream~

Good news everyone!
As mentioned before the Akaiito and Aoishiro remasters were both rather lacking due to the subpar translations. There were also the resolution issues that made the game crash or impossible to read.

Well, I was just given a link to a fix where both games are patched with the fan translations. While everyone probably is aware of the Aoishiro translation, some may not know that the Akaiito translation project was actually 90% finished before it was dropped. This patch will overwrite the official translation with the fan patch in all parts that were completed and will leave the rest to the official one. The Aoishiro one on the other hand is of course complete and will replace the horrible machine tanslation of the official release.

https://rentry.org/akaiito
Akai Ito Zohar's translation
The original fan translation, adapted to the Remaster.
This translation was never fully completed -- most of
Sakuya's route and some of the endings are untranslated.
Any missing content was replaced by the Remaster's translation.
https://files.catbox.moe/7wl64t.zip - [19/06/2023]

Akai Ito 1366x768 resolution patch
The Remaster expects your screen to be 1920x1080.
This patch lowers it to 1366x768 and scales some
of the interface according to that resolution.
It might not work on smaller resolutions.
https://files.catbox.moe/4f3etb.zip

Aoi Shiro Wings of Yuri translation
The original fan translation, adapted to the Remaster.
https://files.catbox.moe/icqog2.zip - [19/06/2023]

Aoi Shiro 1366x768 resolution patch
See above
https://files.catbox.moe/0ti8oa.zip

Credit goes to an anon on 4chan apparently. I am sorry that I can't thank them personally, but that is the nature of anonymous boards I suppose. Keep in mind that this probably has not been tested by a large pool of users and may have a few issues that have not been discovered yet. Always keep a backup of the original files.

last edited at Jun 20, 2023 9:18AM

She asked if it was A) and Watanabe said that wasn't it. She did the math, and because she's not interested, she moved to head her off with "I'm not into this in real life."

If it were as innocuous and sane as just saying that she is not interested this would not have left such a long lasting scar. She in no uncertain terms denied that lesbian relationships or love are real and only has a vague concept of fictionality of yuri as a genre to fall back on to dodge that bigotry stigma now.

The least damning possbility would be that she is indeed a lesbian or bi herself and just got burned in a similar scenario, so she coped by putting it entirely into the world of fiction for herself. "Yuri is just fiction" could well be a reflection of her thinking that fantastical scenarios where two girls could find each other and be happy are just not possible, because she made a bad experience.

It is not good, but her own cynicsm affecting her response would be more relatable. The fact that Watanabe clearly broke their promise to go to the same school and broke off all contact implies that maybe some things were left unspoken. I will give the author the benefit of the doubt there, because this feels like a loose thread for now.

Lovely recommendation!

I wanna try it already, but my laptop "apparently" had some issues with steam recently so I'll have to wait for a while...

already put it in my wishlist and will keep my eye on it tho~

Far be it from me to encourage piracy, but if it is only a temporary measure until official means become available to you, then I will say that there are other ways to get the game.

beyond the fact that you are a father who also had a wife once

do any raising sim ever give you the chance of being a mother? I am curious how often the gender of the parent matters, if at all, in this kind of game

I cannot think of any raising sim with a playable mother actually. Then again I haven't played many beyond the classics like Princess Maker (which this game is very inspired by) and Long Live the Queen.

Cute Bite is a very special vampire raising sim which I also have on the recommendation list though, in which you play the female servant of the young vampire lady and raise her to return to her adult form and power. She can take any role depending on how things turn out, from mother figure to lover.

However, Volcano Princess has a good reason for why you play as the father and not the mother, which is tied to its story, so I cannot actually go into it. Safe to say though that the parents could not be interchanged to achieve the same result.

last edited at Jun 10, 2023 1:01PM

I would like to take one post here to talk about a game recently released which may not entirely apply to the thread's topic. Raising sims are not strictly speaking Visual Novels. I know this well. But... I find the overlap with such extended segments where most things are conveyed in a visual novel style to be enough of a link to recommend them anyway. As the Games with selectable yuri content section in the opening post shows, I have added a couple of such games that tread the line. All this is to say, I apologize for abusing my own thread to promote a game I like so frivolously.

The game in question is called

Volcano Princess

Synopsis: Volcano Princess is a game about a single father raising his daughter until adulthood in a fantasy kingdom. While you take the role of the father, you also take the role of the daughter during the day and interact with the world through her, making it an usual style of raising sim where you control both the parent and daughter and your actions with each affect the other.

The story mainly focuses on raising your daughter (the default name is Rose) into a splendid adult. However there are many mysteries in the world and unexpected connections between characters and while Rose can learn any manner of professions or romance whoever she wants, there is a core truth in the background that begs to be uncovered.

After growing up to teenage age Rose will enroll at a knight academy and train/study to be a knight. During these academic years she chooses her true path in life and is confronted with changes to the kingdom that affect the entire populace. There is a "great degeneration" happening by which people change physically in a variety of ways and the nearby magical forest is overrun by demons, led by the mysterious "Owl Princess".

Can you obtain the game's True Ending? Which is also compatible with almost every profession and romance ending? The true test awaits!

Duration? One playthrough depending on how thorough one might be or how many things one tries to accomplish can be anywhere from 10-20 hours.
It's just that kind of detailed game. Overall the game is divided into ~40 "turns" which represent a month each. Depending on the events of that month there may be more or less to do, meaning it is hard to gauge how much time it will take. As there is only the option to save at the start of a turn there may be a lot of reloading happening for people who like to change their choices quickly, leading to a lot of extra play time.

Gameplay?
Following a prologue like tutorial section with toddler Rose the game truly begins when she turns 12 years old after a time skip. From here on the first decision to make is which house she will join at the knight academy.

Three houses that focus on three different playstyles and all the acitvities associated with it. Fulfilling knight tasks earns money and fame and is sort of a sub-goal. Raising the knight rank higher will also enable new profession endings, but I digress. The three heads of the houses (the strongest knight Lebsa, the princess Gwyneth and the principal Claude) are all only consistently interactable with when picking their house, so choose wisely (or just have many playthroughs as the game encourages).

After picking your house the gameplay loop will consist of interactions between father and daughter at the house, exploring the world as Rose, doing all kinds of activities and then when all stamina has been used up returning home to select the curriculum at the academy Rose will engage with. Through all this you raise Rose's stats, make her connect with characters and earn exp and gear for battle.

What stands out the most about the game is of course the incredible variety of things one can focus on. There is just too much to do for one playthrough, so one can dabble in a little bit of everything or put hard focus on specific things, like performing at the theater as an actress to gain money and fame, attend balls with nobility to gain influence or to go hunting demons in the forest with a party of your friends.

The best part of the game is of course its replay value. The more things Rose accomplishes, the more achievements she gets and the more bonus points you will obtain for the NG+ shop. This will enable one to boost stats, gain items or affection levels before starting a new run (can be turned on or off naturally). So striving for more extravagent professions or romance endings is encouraged.

Another interesting aspect are the annual festivals (two different ones) which feature more mini-games or tournaments which show your pogression very well. Getting first place in any of them is not easy. From a fighting tournament to a debate showdown and a dancing competition, your Rose really has to give it her all to be number one in the Volcano Kingdom and gain awesome prizes.

Every ending profession has certain requirements which are either based on stats or activities. These range from simple stat levels to having a level of affection with a certain character to the level of darkness your daughter is at (by neglecting your daughter or letting her deal with the more evil aspects of the world she gains darkness). The requirements for professions can be seen in the ending gallery after beating the game once.

As everyone can tell by now the game has a gorgeous and charming artstyle and is filled to the brim with CGs. Almost every action, activity and event is expressed through art directly instead of simple number screens like in the majority of raising sims. This love for details also extends to items, monsters and collectibles. Rose can obtain a dozen different outfits which alter her appearance and stats and they all look lovely. There is some light animation at play for certain sprites and minigames.

And then finally we have the romance, which is of course the most important part!

Yuri? Volcano Princess has a sizable cast and each and every character with an affection bar can either be romanced or leads to a romance ending involving their family.
Yes, this includes all the female characters. While it is obviously not a pure yuri game and perhaps leans a bit more towards heterosexual pairings, there are plenty of great sapphic choices for Rose. Marriage between women is a complete non-issue. It is entirely possible to have half a dozen completely different playthroughs and romance a different girl each time. As of the latest patch there are even two yuri polyamory endings.

The romance interests are:
Princess Gwyneth: A serious and regal young woman who strives to protect her kingdom from demons and all that she considers evil. She has a pragmatic and somewhat violent worldview, but also puts much import on ettiquette and self-expression. The king has offered her hand in marriage to anyone able to slay the Owl Princess, though her own thoughts on that engagement are not quite clear. She is propped up to be the next queen as her younger brother is unfit for the position due to his mental condition. Her interest in Rose rises the more competent of a knight she becomes until perhaps love blooms between the princess and her charge...

Nina, the best friend: Nina is the youngest daughter of the most influential noble family in the kingdom, the Handel family. She is the same age as Rose and hits it off with her right away, becoming best friends and enrolling at the academy together. She is very devout in the Volcano Goddess religion and also has a deep interest in divination. She is both smart and a bit flirty (only with Rose). A major struggle for her is avoiding getting married off to some nobleman by her family, but she is determined to choose her own fate. Perhaps the one who she truly wants to be with was at her side all along...

Mona, the restaurant owner: Mona is a cheerful and ambitious woman who owns the local inn that is frequented by pretty much everyone, including the princess herself. She inherited from her mother who has a not so subtle connection to the Handel family, which makes her very close to Nina (they treat each other as sisters). While Mona is a bit older than both Rose and Nina, she has the spirit to keep up with these younger girls and dabbles both in combat/exploration and culinary improvement at all times. She is the only female friend you can take to the dungeon outside of Nina. Her happy-go-lucky attitude belies her heavy burdens in life, but perhaps the young girl who has always been at her side during those years can give her support...

Lebsa, the strongest knight: A mysterious swordswoman who was the apprentice of the most renown hero and demon hunter Asbel. She was taken in by the Handel family at a young age and immediately rose up to be the leading knight and a Lord. She is carefree and wild, never letting duty or rules hold her down. She lives life to the fullest both in private and on the job. When she isn't avoiding a meeting to go hiking or hunting, she will attend banquets and enjoy a drink. Her free-spirited nature gets her into a lot of trouble and her obssession with being the strongest and slaying the Owl Princess make her unpredictable. But perhaps a knight trainee who shows aptitude can catch her ever hidden eye...

Connie, the nun: A devout woman from noble upbringing who decided to devote herself to helping people in need. She values the teachings of the goddess, but has more practical views on the world at large. Her support of orphans and the poor leads her to dream of building an orphanage one day. A charming commoner girl who shows compassion and initiative may be able to make her cross the line that the faith may consider inappropiate...

Rebecca, the seamstress: She is a woman with some life experience, but still a rather naieve and hopeful outlook on the world. Her dresses are the best in the kingdom and she loves using beauitful people as her models to try them out. She is a kind-hearted lady who is always polite and energetic at the center of the merchant street. Though she had given up on love due to her past, the most charming beauty with the friendliest words may still capture her heart yet...

Mary, the bathouse owner: A middle-aged commoner lady with a knack for business and a hardy constitution who runs the bathhouse like her own little kingdom, while never losing her sense of fun. She loves drinking and is not shy about sharing her interests even with young impressionable girls, but she has a heart of gold. The more one talks to her the more hidden facettes she reveals. It seems that there is nothing she can't do when she sets her mind on it. Perhaps that includes a wonderful age gap romance with a bold and daring maiden...

Whichever lady you pick (or perhaps two at times), they all make wonderful partners. Perhaps you do not like large age gaps or maybe you are strongly monogamous... it's all up to you! The most interesting part is that nearly any profession ending is compatible with any romance ending, meaning that you can create the most fascinating headcanons of Rose's turbulent adult life. She may be a demon slayer during the day, but at night she becomes a tender lover to her wife. Maybe she is a wandering bard, yet after every journey she returns to her girlfriend, the literal queen of the kingdom? Possibilities are endless.

Version? Volcano Princess gets very regular updates since release. The devs are clearly invested in this passion project (all the more impressive as they are just two women doing all the work!). A lot of the patches simply fix bugs or improve the translation (the original is Chinese), but a lot of them also added quality of life updates and more content.
The biggest major release at the time of writing this was Version 2.0 which added amongst many things another yuri poly ending. So always play the latest version, alright?

Sexual Content? None, although the game is not shy about acknowleding such things either. They just don't happen on screen. There is an ending where Rose and her wife have a science/magic baby even. Regardless, no sexual content. The Owl Princess doesn't like wearing clothes, but her body is tastefully featureless.

Recommended?
I dare say this overly long post speaks volumes of my thoughts on that. Volcano Princess is the best raising sim ever made. Period. And it has enough yuri to completely satisfy anyone without forcing any het content on the player (beyond the fact that you are a father who also had a wife once). It may simply be the most charming game I have played in a long time and my game of the year without a doubt. Investing 100 hours into it to get almost everything done (except the romance endings with the male love interests) was 100% worth it.
The game is available on Steam for very little money. The content/price balance is incredible.

last edited at Jun 13, 2023 3:05AM

"Don't give me that sass"
No, by all means, continue the sass output Kimura! It seems to have a positive effect on Hiyama's nerves. Quipping back creates a more casual atmosphere and goes along well with Hiyama's bursts of rival catchphrases.

It pains me that the manga will end so soon, as this dynamic is what truly elevates the story ultimately. Kimura's self-actualization forged by her understanding of who she truly loves has been a delight to witness. And though the manga plays with misunderstanding based drama in the most excessive ways, it somehow does it in such a way that it feels more like a homage to the stories it parodies, while keeping the cuteness alive and well.

My love for reversals is also being catered to, so I may well be biased.

It is well that they are shopping for new clothes as Tsukushi apparently decided to wear a camping tent to their outing.

I Want Class Zenin Maji De Yuri

Can I assume that you "want" it added to the list? In that case I would refer you to the opening post again, in which I stated that I would like to only put VNs with English translations on the recommendation list. Of course there is nothing wrong with discussing untranslated works too. Perhaps if there is a sizable enough group of people who are interested in Japanese recommendations I could create a new section for it...

Incidentally I did play MajiYuri myself. I used a translation tool however, because I am utterly hopeless with kanji. The game is rather unabashedly base and leans completely into its eroge content, but it has some unique pros that can't be ignored.

Pros:
1. It is a yuri harem VN, which is exceedingly rare for the genre. It gets bonus points for the fact that you can get many different ending combinations as well depending on your affection levels with the cast.
2. There is plenty of casual fun content too and the cast is very large, allowing for many different experiences in multiple playthroughs.
3. A very proactive protagonist. In fact she sets out with the explicit desire to create a "boob harem" for herself from the beginning. It is... fascinating how she manages to trick or convince girls to have sex with her. It nearly defies common sense, but that's an eroge for you.

Cons:
1.Ironically the first con is the fact that there is a lot of non-con content in this contingent of- Ahem. Some situations, especially with the principal are really revolting. If it weren't yuri this would certainly be an absolute no-go.
2. The sigh "mysterious white fluid" button. Reprehensible and gratuitous in every way, just not the good type. This is the major reason the game is looked down upon in most yuri communities. Catering to male players this absurdly and disgustingly is just a step too far. Thankfully it is entirely optional.

last edited at May 26, 2023 10:14AM

Aoishiro and Akai Ito have now come out on Steam.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2097740/AKAIITO_HD_REMASTER/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2097750/AOISHIRO_HD_REMASTER/

Unfortunately I have bad news. The translations are very amateurish. Akaiito is somewhat more competent, but the translation is very basic and does not convey the writing style of the original at all.
Aoishiro is an unsalvagable mess that fails to translate half the lines properly, reads terribly even on its own and both of them have formating issues at that.

As sad as it is to say this... I do not recommend buying these VNs unless you can play the JP version. If you absolutely want to though, then I suggest waiting until Akaiito's resolution issues are solved (it can only be displayed at 1080p which causes issues on almost any modern PC). It is at least not inaccurate as far as the content of the translations goes.
And then play the fan translation of Aoishiro. Perhaps there is a way to patch it over the HD remaster eventually.

last edited at May 25, 2023 10:27PM

Having read through far too many endless “is it really yuri?” comment threads (as if “yuri” was some kind of honorific that a series needed to earn), I think that in the context of Dynasty it’s the lack of the Yuri tag that’s most informative, signaling “no girls’ love here.”

Certainly, the lack of a yuri tag generally implies that not even a yuri fan who would generally be trying to look for it could find anything solid, which is revealing in and of itself.

I’ve always taken “yuri crush” to mean something along the lines of “side character has feelings that probably aren’t going much of anywhere, unless maybe at the very end.”

Unfortunately I do not see much of a difference between this and a main character going through the same thing. Especially for one-shots that are notorious for ending things without a proper resolution I think this tag would have some genuine use. If it has no Yuri tag then a lot of people would skip it, thinking it had no yuri value whatsoever. But one-sided feelings are something people are interested in specifically too. Yet simply stamping something without resolution or relationship as Yuri is very obviously against what the tag is defined as on this site.

Ambiguous, ambivalent, unstated, nuanced feelings are often the stock in trade of yuri manga; introducing more ambiguity into the tags seems counterproductive to me.

If something is ambiguous I think the Subtext tag more than fulfills the purpose here. But I have now encountered people who believe that it is not subtext if one-sided feelings are stated. Either would be fine with me - it just needs to be settled.

Regardless of the ambiguity though, can we not agree that the definition of the tag is awkward and requires at least some updating? At the very least it would be prudent to get rid of the "setting" and "self-explanatory" lines, which are completely superfluous.

last edited at May 21, 2023 12:03PM

So. The Yuri tag. After a conversation on the topic of tagging it came to my attention how odd a lot of definitions of tags on this site really are (something I did not bother to question until now). Here is the definition of the Yuri tag according to Dynasty:

Female + female relationship(s).
Should be mostly explanatory when reading the chapter/series.
Does NOT matter what the setting is, just needs to have a relationship involving two women (including transgender women).
Should NOT be paired with the futanari tag unless there is somehow a separate relationship that does not involve futanari.

This definition is rather awful and contradicts a lot of the use of the tag on this site. Any definition that includes "should be self-explanatory if you just read the series" is a travesty already.

The line about the setting is exceptionally odd and redundant. I do not see this specification on the Het or Bisexual tags, so why does it exist here?

The first aspect of this definition

Female + female relationship(s)

is already consistently contradicted. It claims that the yuri tag applies only to relationships between two women, yet the tag is used for one-sided crushes all the time. It is used for series which would obviously fall into the area of subtext as well, with no such defined relationships present. The tag claims something very specific but a very loose usage is endorsed by the uploaders and mods.

The next issue is with the arbitrary choice to completely deny Futanari from being tagged with Yuri while explictly stating Trans is applicable. Now before I am senselessly accused of being transphobic, my issue is the opposite. I believe that there are plenty of cases where Futanari stories would fall within the yuri tag, just as trans stories would.
The fact that one does have yuri symbiosis and the other does not is what creates the dissonance here.

If you consider trans women to be yuri relevant (and again, so do I), then you have to quantify this. Your most likely reasoning is: It's a woman, despite the male body parts. In that case this applies to a major chunk of futanari stories as well. In the majority of stories where futanari is a state that is acquired (via transformation(magic or otherwise)) the original state of the futanari was a perfectly normal born girl. Her gender identity did not change just because she grew an extra body part. A trans woman (barring surgery or magic) is more of a man physically than a futanari. Yet there is a complete double standard in the application of the yuri tag. Even in Japanese circles the tag that would translate to "Yuri Futanari" exists.

I think most of these issues are to blame on an outdated standard that came about when the site first was created (barring the trans line which was clearly added much later). Personally I believe that taking away the prohibition on tag combinations would mitigate a lot of things. Like letting the Yuri Crush tag leave its gag obscurity and actually be allowed to be used to describe stories with one-sided feelings in them (whether based on rejection or lack of confrontation) and allowing both Trans and Futanari to co-exist with the Yuri tag, obviously depending on the contents of the story. It will require uploaders to be a bit more conscious of how they tag things, but I do not believe that's a big ask.

last edited at May 20, 2023 5:18AM

I would not consider it a war, at the very least not my involvement in it. I was merely trying to voice my doubts towards the tagging of the story based on its actual contents, all the while discovering the inadequacy of the site's actual definitions for major tags. In that light I repeat that it was merely an opinion in regards to Yuri and Yuri Crush , but it is just a fact that the Bisexual tag had no place on this story by its contents alone. Whether the uploader has some special extra information from an outside source, I cannot say.

Regardless I will most likely take this to the appropiate place now.

For what it's worth, there's an untranslated bonus page indicating that Ayame thinks Ema's hot either way

This certainly lends a bit more credence to the Bisexual tag, albeit a small step. Very cute though and I appreciate that Ayame sees that both versions of Ema are attractive.

last edited at May 20, 2023 4:46AM

Personally, I never quite understood the purpose of this tag. It is also exceedingly rarely used, if you take a look at the list of one-shots that have it, it is a very short list. But what I can tell you for certain is that the tag was never meant as a stand-in for one-sided feelings, that much was clearly established.

If the definition is so flawed that one cannot actually explain a scenario in which the tag is to be used, then yes, the tag itself is redundant. So instead of making it a useless non-tag, it would be far more useful to give it a purpose. A purpose that the term "yuri crush" itself implies, but somehow is denied by its nonsensical definition.
One-sided feelings (whether they be one-sided due to a lack of acknowledgement by the love interest or due to rejection) would easily fall within what almost anyone would understand by the term yuri crush.

This story has no yuri romance in it and if that does not matter to tagging something yuri then the tag may be used far too loosely.

The yuri tag has historically been used on this site to encompass one-sided feelings and was stated multiple times whenever these discussions erupted that if a woman has romantic feelings for another woman, it is all that matters when it comes to tagging. Whether the feelings are returned or not, whether the love interest even knows of these feelings or not has never been deemed relevant. I honestly do not see it as being complicated.

It is not complicated if you establish such a rule within the definition of the tag. Alas, the Yuri tag does not have that kind of loose definition, so the matter is bound to get messy. The yuri tag merely claims that the tag is for relationships between two women. Not one-sided feelings in non-relationships.

Ema is in love with Ayame, that much is conveyed pretty clearly, and that is all that matters when it comes to whether it should be tagged as yuri or not.

You see, if you wish to go this far, then you have to acknowledge too that the story does not directly tell you that Ema has a crush on Ayame, factually. It is to be infered and perhaps the most logical conclusion, but even then it is not explicit. I am aware that this is splitting hairs, but the idea that we decide definitions based on what we feel like causes the issues that we are facing right now.

From the description of the Yuri crush tag: "This tag is meant particularly for non-yuri series, and should not be used in any story with a yuri tag, nor as another name for one-sided love."

It has been stated multiple times that one-sided yuri is still yuri and should be tagged as such.

The description by itself is contradictory. What application does it have in your mind? Is it a character having a crush on another girl in a het series? Then is that only applicable when the crush is... requited eventually? Or is it, by chance, for unrequited crushes too? If you claim that every and all crushes in stories without lesbian romance automatically turn the work into a yuri work, then there is literally no place to actually use the Yuri Crush tag.
And if not everything that has no actual sapphic romance in it can just be labeled Yuri due to a crush then the inherent distinction of "non-yuri" series allows for more interpretations.

I have no business with who can and cannot change tags, but there has to be consistency to how you label stories or otherwise tagging becomes chaotic quickly. Like it generally is.

This story has no yuri romance in it and if that does not matter to tagging something yuri then the tag may be used far too loosely. Can subtext only exist if neither party confirms their feelings to the audience then? The tag itself describes only unspecified relationships between two involved characters, not whether their feelings are known to the reader. I think you will find that all of this will only make tagging less useful.

last edited at May 19, 2023 8:59AM

That's not yuri. And Ayame doesn't seem to have any interest in Ema nor does Ema show any interest in men, so bisexuality is also kinda wrong here. I'd say it is subtext but not sure. It's not very taggable I guess. Well, not everything has to be compartmentalised into neat little boxes.

As per Japanese standards,this is Yuri,because this is girly love,even if its' one sided.

Japan uses it as an umbrella term,regradless if its' two middle schoolers complimenting each other or two grannies getting it on like Donkey Kong with guns,drugs,and explosions.

It's the West that came up with the "shoujo ai"/"subtext" aspect,which only serves to cause comments like the quoted one here.

As for bisexual,with the above estabslished,its' as easy as simply stating she was dating an undeserving male and is now on track to getting the female stud muffin she always deserved.

First of all, the "everything is yuri" movement is not how the term is actually conventionally used in Japan, nor what it was meant to be at inception. Yuri is love between TWO girls. Rarely if ever is a one-sided crush tagged as a yuri work. And you are on dynasty, not a Japanese forum. We have a Yuri Crush tag for a reason and I find it woefully underutilized. Ema's one-sided crush is established in the work and nothing else. If you want to be overly generous you could grant the uploader the full Yuri tag on that basis, but it is still an awkward implementation for a one-shot.

However, there is no justification for the Bisexual tag whatsoever. If you require projection or headcanons to justify a tag, then it has no business being there.
In fact I would even put the crossdressing into question if the title didn't establish it as intentional, because that is not what crossdressing is. A haircut and shirt (she already wore pants like that before her makeover) do not a crossdresser make.

last edited at May 19, 2023 3:14AM

Femme tops are perhaps the best thing that can happen in yuri. They cure all ails and fix all issues.

Okay, I'll bite. What's 'misogynistic lookism'?

Some nonsense a regular commenter here projected on the story during its entire run instead of simply dropping the story like a sensible person would with something they irrationally hate. The misguided idea is that because the girls wanted to be conventionally pretty instead of accepting their natural looks they are somehow gears in the patriarchic system and only do it to appeal to the male gaze.

You should not throw them a bone.

I knew I was not mad just yet. Last year I commented about this being the epilogue I saw on other sites and was mildly confused why there was a different one on Dynasty. How fortunate to have both epilogues here after all this time.