So yeah, there's a difference between enjoying lolicon/shouta and being a pedophile, but some lolicon/shouta is absolutely for pedophiles and you shouldn't defend it or else you end up defending grooming which is not a good look.

Now that's not fair, now is it? People in general know how to separate real life from fiction, and that includes the creators themselves. I don't particularly prefer lolicon works over the more "normal" ones, but I would never judge anyone who just draws this stuff without involving actual, living children, and those who enjoy such works of fiction, as "defenders of grooming," no matter how messed up the work seems to me, or how "dangerously close" to real life it is. That's just a messed up way of thinking. If I didn't know any better, I would say you're projecting, even.

I believe the misunderstanding is my phrasing so I will rephrase:

There's a difference between enjoying lolicon/shouta and being a pedophile and the two groups do not always overlap, but there does exist some lolicon/shouta that is clearly either created by pedophiles or is created for pedophiles such as those involving these realistic grooming scenarios and if you defend such works, you will often end up defending inherently problematic elements like grooming whether you mean to or not. Which is not a good look.

I stated there is " some lolicon by/for pedophiles" and that defending that specific category can easily result in the appearance of defending grooming and that THAT is not a good look. I object to the depiction of grooming very young children specifically and not necessarily to all lolicon/shouta works. I am also not the person you quoted as saying "'dangerously close' to real life" and did not use those words. I also did not accuse anyone of being "defenders of grooming" as if it's a job title and their life's work, but rather stated they will end up defending it, unintentionally or intentionally, in their attempt to defend certain works that depict it.

I was trying to be careful with my wording so please read carefully too instead of accusing me of projecting, which is uncalled for.

Edit
I shouldn't have brought the author's personal life into this have edited my post to remove it. That's my bad.

last edited at May 18, 2020 7:17AM

It was definitely a joke. As someone pointed out early in the thread, lampshading. We know Onee-san is a creepy pedo but in-universe she's the main character, not a villain... She would never do anything to hurt the Otone... But she's a sick pedo full of creepy desires, which we can see from outside of the universe.

Probably one of the most central tropes of loli stuff is that the lolis are always enthusiastic. I think there was even a study on rape in hentai manga that came up with it being rarest in a few magazines (one being 0%, an editorial decision I applaud) and number 2 or 3 was Comic Lo, which you can guess from the title is a loli manga. The suspension of disbelief is that this is all a-ok and the way that disbelief is suspended is by the trope of willing, enthusiastic lolis.

This should be made part of obligatory reading for anyone that harps about the lolicon/shotacon genre as being inherently immoral.

I almost feel it's more immoral now? Consent is not the issue when it comes to minors and the fact that at least some of the people reading loli/shouta are actual pedophiles who delude themselves into thinking it's fine if they get consent is disturbing.

I draw the line at grooming someone who acts like a child personally, rather than the apparent age of cartoon characters (although 3rd grade is way, waaay too young). That's why works like Itou Hachi's are far more disturbing to me than hardcore hentai porn with what amounts to a tiny adult.

So yeah, there's a difference between enjoying lolicon/shouta and being a pedophile, but some lolicon/shouta is absolutely for pedophiles and you shouldn't defend it or else you end up defending grooming which is not a good look.

Edit
Rephrasing that last point: There's a difference between enjoying lolicon/shouta and being a pedophile and the two groups do not always overlap, but there does exist some lolicon/shouta that is clearly either created by pedophiles or is created for pedophiles such as those involving these realistic grooming scenarios and if you defend such works, you will often end up defending inherently problematic elements like grooming whether you mean to or not. Which is not a good look.

Also, I shouldn't have brought the author's personal life into this have edited my post to remove it. That's my bad.

last edited at May 18, 2020 7:17AM

crunch crunch crunch

lmfao nothing should be crunching down there

I came here to make this exact comment.

cut for space

The whole “it’s not like we never did anything at all.” is a broad statement. They were together for 3 years so I’m guessing there are other things a horny high school student could have insisted on.

I just put it out there because there’s no way she enjoyed her sexual encounters with brother so I’m hoping Ren can alleviate her disappointment and give her something she can treasure.

I want to see more of Ren and Hime together as their connection develops.

Ah, my bad. I misread the tone of your first post and thought you had a problem with her not being a perfectly pure and innocent virgin. Nevermind then.

I, too, am excited to see their relationship grow!

I don't really care if she's only a virgin in regards to PIV sex or not, but why are people automatically jumping from "I gave him oral when he insisted" all the way to "we did everything but PIV"? Judging by how inexperienced and shy she is, I doubt she let him "return the favor" and if she did it was because he "insisted" on that too.

I started reading for the subtext, still here for everything else.

These are cute and I'm learning about art, win-win!

I feel like none of Mogu's friends are concerned about this random chick showing up and violently ripping their hair tie out? That must have hurt and was totally unprovoked. I'd be very worried after that.

I can't think straight right now.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Nice and sweet

Manga is fine and I'm intrigued where it's going, but holy heck I'm worried so few people understand consent on this thread.

Here's the IRL rule: don't START a sexual relationship with drugs or alcohol involved. Regardless of how much the drunk person had, consent is iffy and they might wake up to regret it which can lead to you being heartbroken and/or rape charges.

It's the sober person's responsibility to refuse much like it's the adult's responsibility when the other person's a minor. If you really like each other, have your first time sober or at least agree before drinking that one/both of you need liquid courage. (Drunk sex sucks anyways since alcohol makes you less sensitive and sleepy.)

If you already have a sexual relationship, you can probably have drunk sex (but can still be risky consent-wise) because you know the people involved are willing to have sex sober. The longer and more serious the relationship, the more likely it's fine.

If you're both drunk, it's a grey area but can still be clear cut rape under certain circumstances (like a drunken gang rape of one passed out person.)

If you don't follow the rule, it doesn't always mean "rape", but the likelihood of consequences goes up and it's just not worth it. Even if it's not "rape", you're an ass if you don't care that you've hurt your partner emotionally. I wouldn't want my partner to regret sleeping with me even if it was just a one night stand!

Remember to drink responsibly.

last edited at May 1, 2020 7:03PM

I'm pretty sure page 5, panel 2 says "Because a lot of them are tricked by your looks." 容姿でだまされてる奴多いんだから .

Throwing my two cents in, Harem as a genre in anime/manga is more specific and different from the idea of a harem in the English language. If you casually described this to me as "a comic about an idol with a harem" that would work perfectly; however if you tag a manga or anime Harem, I would expect the commonly understood genre conventions to be present.

In conclusion harem and Harem are different and should not be conflated when tagging. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 3:04AM

Aya needs real supportive friends and/or a partner.
Aya has made some typical teenager mistakes, but is not a bad person or doing anything "wrong". Haruki and Kuro should take a long walk off a short pier.

Is no one gonna talk about the fact Kuro took a nude photo of an underage girl without consent and sent it to another underage girl just to upset her? That's so messed up.

Kuro is not honest (she's manipulative) and she's terrible. At least Haruki has the excuse of being a dumb teenager whose panicking (not that that's an excuse for sexual assault, but for the other stuff).

I'm only still here for the boobs because dang the art is nice.

I want a girlfriend who debates movies with me until we fall asleep!

Wooo, it's back!

Uh ... I'm pretty sure that was a floral pattern on page 20. Roses are floral, right?

I was going to say the same thing! I wonder if the Japanese phrase was more specific?

Well...that was uncomfortable on every level.

Even something as cute as this can't get the bitter taste of idol culture out of my mouth. Just let her like what she likes Manager-san, fans be damned!

It was an interesting idea at first...and then the weird dick-mommy obsession happened and I completely lost it. WTF is too mild...

The title has dropped and so have my tears.

I think I'd feel better about this one if that "you're a homosexual?" thing didn't happen. The reality of that phrasing makes it seem like lgbt folks are all predators who take advantage of kids who are coming out. If it didn't mention it, I could just apply porn logic.

I think, we have to consider the context here. Ito being hurt/disappointed by a "real" person (a classmate, she looked up to / admired) would indeed be different than her later finding an idol to admire...
[Cut for space]

The cultural context may explain her controlling, entitled behavior, but it's not an excuse. The only hope I cling to is that her onee-san-betrayed-me backstory makes her behavior look more reasonable in hindsight. (Also, wow Japan, what the heck?)

Homura has been so sweet lately...what the heck happened to them?

Please spay and neuter your cats do not let them go into heat and then rub a cotton swabs on them wtf

That was my takeaway too