Why would Touko be in a psychological position to return Sayaka’s feelings any more than she is Yuu’s?

The key to the resolution of the basic conflict in this story remains where it has always been in: Touko’s head/heart/psyche (whatever you want to call it).

We assume that Touko has undergone some kind of fundamental change (as indicated by her acceptance of being less than perfect in the acting group), but the textual evidence concerning romance with another person at this point shows no change:

• In regard to Yuu: “I can’t answer Yuu’s feelings.”
• In regard to Sayaka: “I’m not the person you think I am.”

(I do find her question to Sayaka to be a little ambiguous: “[You love] everything [about me]?”)

I understand why Sayaka is a popular character: she’s pretty and has got loads of integrity and (now) courage—she’s quite the perfect schoolgirl lesbian. But I don’t see that as making her the best partner for Touko, though: they match, they don’t complement one another.

(As one example, people like Touko need someone to tell them when they’re being a jerk. As to whether Sayaka or Yuu is best suited for that role, I believe the question answers itself.)

Totally agree with you, my dude.

Agree somewhat though with special exception of the kind of condescending "quite the perfect schoolgirl lesbian". And it isn't as if she's without faults of her own. Early on she almost lavished in the control she felt she had over Touko and we see she can and is willing to be confrontational with people. And now she's made a big assumption on why Touko is opening up to her lately. She wouldn't confess before because she knew she didn't have a chance, now she thinks that she does.

I like Sayaka a lot and it isn't because she's some shining image of perfection. Her ability to see through some of her own faults and change is commendable though. She's strong, not perfect. And even here with the "I love everything about you" not knowing that a big part of Touko hates herself. The statement is the exact opposite of what Yuu has been telling Touko.

Basically Yuu wants Touko to change and love herself. Sayaka has enabled Touko to remain the same and while not knowing what Yuu knows, Sayaka is essentially saying she loves Touko as she is (as she's kept her just with a small amount of new information). The sad part is that Sayaka really doesn't know Touko.

Yuu accepts Touko's contradictions while Sayaka still sees Touko as a perfect as a whole even with flaws.

As for Touko, she really hasn't done anything to Sayaka that would be considered a "jerk". Sayaka has assumed this all on her own. And I think Touko got a big a wake up call about how she was hurting Yuu when Yuu confessed. To this point Touko has also shown zero romantic interest in Sayaka but a lot in Yuu so there is evidence point to one choice over the over.

So I guess in the end I don't much agree at all other than why some people may love Sayaka if they think she's perfect.

Good on Sayaka showing her guts like that. Now if only Touko could learn to do the same

I like Sayaka for being bold even if it is born from a misunderstanding, she doesn't have all the pieces, but the thing is that Touko doesn't have an answer to give Yuu. And even if she did it isn't as if she could run to Yuu right now.

last edited at Jan 1, 2019 11:40PM

In all seriousness, I love Sayaka and I want her to be happy but like... Okay, so we all know that the endgame here is Yuu and Touko. Especially since Yuu's confession. If Touko says no, then that could either make Sayaka really sad and therefore make me sad, cause poor baby. Or it could pull a Homare x Harry situation (shout out to my Hugtto Precure fans,) and Sayaka could take the rejection with acceptance if with disappointment. OR Touko could say yes, because she doesn't know where she and Yuu currently stand, and while I love Touko with all my heart, she's only human and I for sure wouldn't put taking Sayaka as a coping mechanism/rebound past her. This would cause more drama with Touko and Yuu, Sayaka and Yuu, and ultimately make the inevitable rejection of Sayaka all the more painful. I'm proud of Sayaka for finally confessing, but at the same time, two out of three foreseeable outcomes here lead to drama and painful feels.

Agreed. If Touko accepts Sayaka as a means to run from her feelings for Yuu, and Sayaka inevitably finds out, then Sayaka will be devastated. If given a straight up and honest rejection I think Sayaka can take it in stride but will still be sad no matter how she looks at it.

What slightly concerns me about a Touko x Yuu ending is that Touko is partly in love with Yuu but also partly in love with being in love that has nothing to do with Yuu, and she's scared of Yuu right now.

I just don't see the story making such change though the play could have been foreshadowing in another way with Sayaka then being Touko's lover. And we have seen, though reluctantly, Touko opening up more to Sayaka. In some ways, accepting Sayaka is a "safer" option for her, just as Yuu was "safe" until the confession. I don't think Nakatani will put Sayaka in yet another dishonest situation so if Touko accepts, I don't think she will, they're together.

That said, the title of the chapter is "Kindling" which superficially points heavily to a possible change but could also mean that all the "fires" are starting to be lit to light up the end game.

I'll also say that Sayaka has very little knowledge of what has been happening between Yuu and Touko. Her hope is based on a lot of assumption and a little blind. Also, we know there's going to be side story for Sayaka.

last edited at Jan 1, 2019 11:23PM

This reminds me of Strawberry Panic! when Nagisa tries to escape Shizuma in the library. With every corner turned and every girl couple found, there is no escape for Nagisa as her mind just screams "Why is everyone so gay?!" But then Shizuma finds her anyway and Nagisa then is like "And why am I so gay?!".

last edited at Dec 30, 2018 3:20PM

If it can't produce offspring, is it considered incest?

Incest is any sexual and or romantic relationship with a relative (generally close) whether biologically related or not.

I wanna know if this is really a Yuri Manga or not...

The definition of Yuri that I use is stories that focus on the emotional, social, sexual, and or all three aspects of lesbian relationships. And this is in line with how the genre is used in Japan (so this excludes Shojo-Ai which is lesbian lolicon in Japan).

Yuri isn't all romance requiring pairings to come through at the end; it's not all sweet fluff and hand holding isolated in secret gardens protected from a hostile world where love reigns supreme. There can be a lot of struggles and things don't, like anyone's feelings of love for another, work out.

This story has a young women in love with and adult married woman and the story focuses on the young woman's feels and desires for the older woman. In addition to the difficulties there there are familial dynamics, other relationships struggles, and difficulties in expression and falling out of love. A layered story with other presented views doesn't make this series any less Yuri as ultimately the story comes back to the feelings of attraction, that don't have to end in romance, for and growing between two women.

That doesn't make every story with a lesbian pairing Yuri, but here the focus stands.

Hello!!! THIS IS FICTION!!! Not the real life, and besides, why are telling us that we need patience for what? If they don't get over together, what's the point? In my case, I'm only here for the end...nothing more...and besides, why the tag "ROMANCE" is here if you suggest that this will not end with romance...besides, where is the romance? The YURI romance? I must be blind because I don't see it

The "patience" comment was from another user, not myself: even if I agree that patience is a virtue.

My post wasn't in response to this story alone. It was a response to a user questioning what I quoted, "...really Yuri or not?"

The " just fiction" argument is one that without fail annoys me as it has no literary appreciation at all in any regard. Of course this is fiction and fiction has genre with key elements used to reflect life artistically. Some don't quite reach levels of literature and artistry, some are simple storytelling which is fine in itself and not pretentious to say. Some reflections are absurdities and some focus more on the lucid and "real".

What's the point? The expression of emotion that is story telling. If you don't like stories with endings that may not be what you're wanting then don't read them. Or learn to appreciate different perspectives and not just the one's you want to see and project that onto others because you see no value unless you yourself are fulfilled by something.

Romance is a genre containing stories with relations defined by romantic love that either end with pairings or at least an optimistic (could call it bittersweet even) end. We don't know the end of the story, maybe they do come together in the end, but that's not for us as readers to dictate. And besides, that wasn't the point of my post as it was in response to the questioning of what Yuri is.

last edited at Dec 25, 2018 4:47PM

I wanna know if this is really a Yuri Manga or not...

The definition of Yuri that I use is stories that focus on the emotional, social, sexual, and or all three aspects of lesbian relationships. And this is in line with how the genre is used in Japan (so this excludes Shojo-Ai which is lesbian lolicon in Japan).

Yuri isn't all romance requiring pairings to come through at the end; it's not all sweet fluff and hand holding isolated in secret gardens protected from a hostile world where love reigns supreme. There can be a lot of struggles and things don't, like anyone's feelings of love for another, work out.

This story has a young women in love with and adult married woman and the story focuses on the young woman's feels and desires for the older woman. In addition to the difficulties there there are familial dynamics, other relationships struggles, and difficulties in expression and falling out of love. A layered story with other presented views doesn't make this series any less Yuri as ultimately the story comes back to the feelings of attraction, that don't have to end in romance, for and growing between two women.

That doesn't make every story with a lesbian pairing Yuri, but here the focus stands.

Really..... Has the writer just got no clue on what to do so is just hashing out the same punchline

It's not funny and is getting boring now

I may be mistaken but didn't Kano resolve herself not to accept any confession even if it were genuine? She's afraid that even if Miyuu is being serious that in the end she may lose her altogether if they start dating.

If Miyuu were to say "I don't mean it like that manga! I'm serious about you!" I could see Kano responding by saying something like such a situation being a good idea for story thus shutting down Miyuu again. I see this as Miyuu having to learn that no matter how she phrases her love she'll be rejected because the issue is much more fundamental than just getting her feelings across.

last edited at Dec 22, 2018 5:19AM

Prediction: Rumors will increase and as the pressure of their relationship being discovered mounts, one will break up with the other and the cycle of drama will recommence.

last edited at Dec 18, 2018 5:12PM

this is cute and all but wheres the delinquent?

A delinquent is technically anyone that doesn’t follow an established duty, rule or law. Conformity in Japan, especially in school, is from my understanding still a strict standard. So basically anyone that does not fit within a narrow part of a spectrum can be considered a delinquent in Japan.

First I want to apologize because my presentation did create a number if implications that I did not mean and some implications were twisted out of what I said. I also admit to mixing points together that likely lead to unnecessary confusion. I also decided to restart here because I felt I was being stereotyped at some fault of my own.

I agree, although your shorthand of comparing this to mathematics is troubling.

Um, yeah. That wasn't comparing sexual assault to a math problem. It was just show a fundamental truth that knowing the parts of something, the reasons why, helps greatly to find solutions. As with many other things you wrongfully implied of me and inaccurately quoted me as saying I ask that you no longer reply to me.

(avoiding the weak euphemism "take advantage of")

By using the phrase "take advantage of" I did not mean that to lessen the behaviors while I did mean in it every negative away and level of negativity. I wish you wouldn't imply that of me. And I wasn't implying that QT wasn't aware of people that would act to harm her nor that being aware would have prevented the criminal from sexually assaulting QT by taking an up-skirt video without her knowledge nor consent.

I believe that to solve a problem it is important to understand why people act out criminally be the reasons biological, sociological, and or both or other influences. This was in response to comments stating there was no reason to understand why someone would attack, assault, harass, or commit any harmful act against another person.

When we dress we do so for different reasons. Mostly we choose what to wear for ourselves because we feel good in those clothes. We'll often dress for others to be the best dressed, express our styles and thoughts, how we feel about ourselves and so on. We'll dress accordingly for a date versus a business meeting. Sometimes we'll dress to attract a certain kind of attention or behavior towards us and so on. And people will and do, society as a whole, respond to and treat us accordingly.

What is wrong however is for one to use those reasons of dress to assault someone in any degree. The recent court case in Ireland where a man was acquitted of raping a teen girl because of the style of panties she wore was appalling. The argument used was that because of the panties she wore meant that she wanted sex which is a very wrongful and harmful claim. There are many reasons and issues that have lead to a society where people believe, no matter how wrong it actually is, that such assumptions are okay and that people do treat others in such a way. And do so on in a systematic way.

To describe someone's dress as "provocative" implies an assumption that they have dressed that way to provoke someone to act against them or elicit arousal.

How someone dresses is no excuse nor justification of any kind for assault. And victims should never be shamed into believing it as their fault. People can and have been assaulted not matter what they wear. A rapist doesn't care whether someone is wearing a joggers or nothing at all. A voyeur will use any advantage they can get to take unwanted images of someone.

And if in this case QT had been "aware"

Being aware of this isn't an immediate defense, awareness alone will not prevent people from being assaulted and no one should have to keep checking themselves during every day activities to be sure no one can assault them. Being aware however can and does help in how we respond to assault, how we learn and implement the necessary social steps that can be taken to reduce the assaults and harassment, and in how we respond to those assaulted. It wasn't my intention in the last comment to imply that had QT been aware, not assuming she wasn't, that nothing would have happened to her.

My point about men making up the overwhelming number of sexual assault criminals wasn't an accusation that all men are sexual assailants nor that all men are predisposed to committing sexual crimes. However I do think it is incredibly important when addressing sexual assault to determine why that is. There are a lot of men that haven't and wouldn't commit sex crimes so I'm certainly not implying in any capacity that all men are. Another twisting of my words to imply otherwise.

I admit freely without excuse nor reason that my prior post went well outside the event in the story so this is how I view the scene on its own.

QT did nothing wrong. Her choice of dress was not at fault. She was harassed, assaulted, taken advantage of (meaning in this context to exploit someone and harm them) and it was good that SJ stood up to the perpetrator. Why the perpetrator acted as he did? There are many reasons and influences that do not never justify (validate something as having no fault or blame but do explain why people behave as they do. In regard to the perpetrator himself he went out to capture voyeur shots or did so in the moment seeing an opportunity do to so. Again, not QT's fault.

When approached by the Park Employee QT was advised not to wear a skirt in crowded places because this may, and was had, lead to the assault. This was wrong and implies that it was QT's fault. Implying that it is the victim's fault it horrid and there is no "but" or "however" here. Anything that implies the victim was at fault is horrid. My only curiosity is how did QT herself feel about the incident and the statement from the Park Employee because how the victim feels is also very important to how a response is to be had.

To make note. I did not know the content of nor even the existence of a further explanation from the writer. Likely it was in another language. If someone wishes to provide that explanation for further knowledge I welcome it but I can not be held accountable for not knowing.

Sometime's, not matter how right a response may be, if the response is violent this can add to the trauma. Sun Jing was right to be angered, she was right to remove the Park Employee's hand from QT's shoulder as there was no reason to touch her to begin with, but I take exception to her using physical intimidating, making contact with the Park Employee when pointing at her, and the rapist example because it was an exaggeration of the Park Employee. And one of the main reasons I take exception is because it leaves me wondering if SJ got her point across?

The comment I made of "misguided yet well meaning" in regard to the Park Employee's motivations was in response to SJ saying she hated people like the Park Employee even more than those that do the actual assault. True enough that some assailants may and do act on lessons they are taught by individuals and society. People like the Park Employee knowingly or unknowingly (as I believe in this case) do perpetuate these harmful teachings and that is not right no matter of intention. But to argue the Park Employee as worse unwittingly justifies the assailants actions as somehow better.

And in the end what about the most important person in the middle of all this? QT, the one assaulted. Did someone's anger overshadow the initial event and of how QT felt? We see nothing from her until she's crying at the end and SJ makes some quip that QT is a wimp for crying. Because assault victims being "wimpy puppies" is funny somehow. We see SJ get mad, we see her act, we see her respond to everything, we see her play down QT's reaction at the end when we finally do get a glimpse into how QT felt.

My final curiosity comes from what the Park Employee said and continues outside the context of the scene. Sticking to QT's example alone had she worn pants then the video could not have been taken. That's not blaming QT nor shaming her, that's pointing out a simple fact. However, telling someone to cover up to avoid sexual exploitation isn't a viable answer because this ignores that such advice doesn't stop assault. The Voyeur would simply move on to someone else or had he been a rapist then whatever QT wore wouldn't stop him. The actual actions are independent of what someone is wearing and even if true in one instance what the Park Employee says has no positive impact on sexual assault. And to the extent such a comment does more harm than good for many reasons including the act of covering up implies there was something wrong in the first place with how a woman dressed.

So while society progresses and that progression is not a linear path, is there anything else that can be done in the meantime while lessons change, cultures changes, and people become more understanding, to better protect people and for people to be aware of potentially more ways to protect themselves without unfairly having to change how they go about things? And I'll end here. I don't want myself to be further misunderstood nor me mentality wrongfully assumed any further. But I will say that none of my thoughts included women, myself for that matter, and no one else to do start covering up because sexual criminals and potential sexual criminals exist.

---

C'*mon*, they're still kids, and they know each other, it's way less creepy. You even see her talking with mophead all shyly later. And SJ was still coming out, she was probably a bit repressed, but even if that wasn't so - at least a woman can go 1-on-1 with another woman. Not so much with men. You feel frustrated af when you can't do shit about harassment because you know you'll get the crap beaten out of you.

Being a teenager, relation to someone, repressed or emerging sexuality, nor attempts at humor are justifications for harassment which itself isn't justifiable. Sun Jing is quite athletic and strong, she's able to hold her own against males in sports and fights, so I kind of doubt the other girl at half the size of SJ could go "1-on-1" with her regardless of both being women. Not all women are inherently weaker than all males. And harassment from a woman is no less than harassment from a man.

The girl's shy behavior around Mophead afterwards was likely because she understandably became angry at the wrong person. Absolutely not because she was "okay" with Sun Jing grabbing her buttocks. At that she was at the very least angry.

---

last edited at Dec 17, 2018 4:05PM

Kanan almost looks like she's asking herself "this is okay, yes?"

Stay classy Yamada... >_>

last edited at Dec 12, 2018 11:45PM

Remember when Mochi did moe?

Well now I'm just sad and need a hug...

last edited at Dec 11, 2018 2:47AM

I would absolutely adore this one-shot if not for the extended ending. The content of that continuation ruins the main part which is so sweet.

Ah, the age old practice of breaking someone down and then telling them to have more confidence. Can a bully tag be added? Less of a delinquent and more just a resentful complainer.

last edited at Dec 8, 2018 11:36PM

That was the other need not be named couple. Reading tags is important.

Mm, they were doing a bit more than making out. Also all science babies have their ahoge removed when they come of age.

last edited at Dec 1, 2018 9:43PM

That last page though

Drama incoming

It's not an H-manga. She's not going to blackmail them and then sell them to fat old men.

Yes, Chidori innocently posing with a penguin and Nanoha's sister is totally scandalous. What ever will they do? It is rare and refreshing to have a little sister that is actually happy and supportive -- be happy.

---

To be honest I kind of wish this was a date with Senpai (sorry, not so sorry).

---

Seems like this was a great first date for Chidori: she got to learn so much and hand holding still happened. Also, the ever so important little sister approval. A rather productive date I'd say. Plus we got to see different sides of our two heroines so I think these last two chapters were rather good.

---

I'm pretty sure everyone knows they're gay by now.

Mm, the Volume 2 Extra show that the friends are likely oblivious to Chidori and Nanoha's relationship. There may be a slight possibility that Kumako (glasses) knows but I think Asumi (tall) and Rei (bob) are unaware. The friends have sort of a distant yet energetic fascination, gushing, to almost scandalous response to Yoshida and Abe dating as well. A response that made Chidori and Nanoha relieved their friends didn't know about them.

In the Volume 2 Extra the friends see Yoshida and Abe walking while holding hands and make comment on the relationship. Asumi expresses jealousy stating how lucky Yoshida and Abe were. Kumako responds with shock while Asumi is "whatever" about the whole thing. Rei comments that Asumi only thinks that way because she watches too much TV and that homosexuality is a global thing: essentially distancing homosexuality away from Japanese culture. Kumko follows Rei up by reminding (I say correcting) Asumi how she always talks about having a boyfriend. I don't know if Asumi may be interested in other girls, there isn't enough information, but Kumako and Rei still dismisses the possibility.

I don't think the response of the friends would be extremely negative but I also don't think things would go smoothly. Asumi may not have a strong response, I think she accept it rather quickly, while Kumako would likely be shocked but eventually accommodating. My concern would be Rei as in the Extra she appears to show a level of dismissive arrogance. Right before her there is a lesbian couple holding hands yet she still dismisses the relationship as a pop-culture global thing that isn't something truly part of being Japanese. A short Extra but I do think it gave a lot of insight into the friends and their respective views on homosexuality in a Japanese context.

To that end, I don't think the friends know for the time being. Only the Nanoha's cheeky little sister.

last edited at Nov 29, 2018 5:40PM

They keep the room at 26C?

last edited at Nov 29, 2018 5:24AM

Uhm, people who struggled to finally have a relationship with someone they truly love. Hearing your partner saying that is like they're going to ask you to break up.

She was seeking emotional confirmation of their relationship. It's not like breaking up, Iori jumped to wrong conclusions. Struggle is no justification for abuse which there is never a justification for.

This feels like another "abuse is bad abuse is good" Yuri stories that seem to be growing in number.

This story uses abuse either without thought or with willful misuse.

---

There is no reason for the sister to confuse her for a man. No one else has, no reference to her having a boyish or manly appearance. Honestly, I think the author is using the mistaken for a man trope to justify the sister hitting her. If the sister recognized her as female, there wouldn't be room for the hitting.

last edited at Nov 16, 2018 1:15PM

Gotta be real, the art is not my cup of tea

Same. It's because the anatomy is all over the place.
And also I don't like it when a girl is basically drawn like a guy with boobs.

It all looked fine at the start. The artist can draw a good face.

I don’t like the term “Tomboy” because it implies that a girl must be like a boy to do certain things. Kase-san is tagged Tomboy and I don’t see that at all.

That said, there are women that have very male like appearances. That’s not my interest, but I’m certain that it is someone’s.

Also, I found something really interesting too: Skirts No Longer Mandatory For Girls’ Uniforms At A Japanese Middle School. Japan seems to be trying to break gender norms over the past years. "Taiyo Middle School, located in the Kanagawa Prefecture city of Hiratsuka, is notably breaking gender norms to make some progress when it comes to the official school unform. Now in its 71st year, the school will no longer require its female students to wear skirts. They will be able to choose between them or slack pants. The school also wants its female students to understand that the skirt will not be pushed on them as the main uniform–both options will be treated and weighted equally". This really makes me happy.

I went to a public High School that didn’t require uniforms. And I remember seeing the female Catholic School students wearing their uniform skirts in the depths of winter, even trudging through feet of snow. I figured their legs must be freezing and the requirement a bit cruel. I think they were allowed to wear tights in winter but tights don’t help to keep the cold out.

Apparently they weren’t even allowed to wear pants under their skirts just to stay warm while headed to school. And the skirts weren’t exactly long. About mid knee.

I was always glad the I could wear pants instead of a skirt no matter of gender norms for both comfort and personal preference. Glad to see at least one school allowing this.

^ I thought it was a pun as well

This girl is kinda getting yandere and it's getting real creepy

Anyways, I still hope she gets a happy ending because it's disappointing to see a cute face turn sad

Yes, because looks are the prerequisite for caring. Yandere is a fetish and used as an excuse, mental health shouldn't be. She's desperate and lonely, not creepy. She's not "sacrificial", a "nut-job" nor "crazy" as other posts here say; all words and labels of aversion to personal struggles. Maybe, just maybe, be happy for a character that has found a part of herself once more and is moving on to hopefully a healthier life?

I swear, comments here can be quite cruel sometimes.

last edited at Nov 7, 2018 12:36AM