Does anyone have the raws? Or knows where to find them?

You dont seriously think that she just Kissed her, right? The scene totally looked like rape.

Natsuki overhears a rant from a homophobe and assumes something happened which didn't. There's a reason why that "flashback" has a unique style, only appears when Natsuki hears Yukino talking despite her remembering the kiss, and is coupled with an unreliable visual style which has a demonstrably false representation of the scene (as we, the viewer, already saw it from an omniscient 3rd person perspective, and it contradicts Natsuki's "memory").

It's incredibly clear that it was her imagining the worst based upon overhearing a homophobic rant; the show does everything in its power to tell you that. Go watch the scene again, and pay attention to it this time.

Honestly. I have no idea where this debate even came from, given how ham-fisted the whole "THIS IS A FAKE IMAGINATION" thing is. Ohara really didn't want any ambiguity there, and there wasn't any, and yet the debate continues on anyway.

I think people are just so used to having sexual assault in fiction that, when a narrative arc subverts that trend, they assume it's playing it straight instead. There was also the confusion about Natsuki's sexuality, despite her kissing Shizuru and saying she loves her, and Mai referencing them dating in the end of the final episode. Absolutely bizarre.

last edited at Apr 27, 2018 2:31PM

Phew. Oh boy. Gosh!

Heh... Good content.

i agree. i just couldn't help but say it.

It makes me happy to hear you do so. :)

Shizuru is best girl.

Honestly? I love the majority of the characters in that show. A very layered and complex cast, written with the utmost respect for female agency, and a deft hand at subtle characterisation. I won't get into it here, though.

This story very often doesn’t work like that; readers have to triangulate, as it were, among what characters say aloud, what they think to themselves, and how they act. It’s not unique in that respect, and doing it isn’t especially complicated, but it does call for a slightly different kind of attention by readers than do many other apparently similar stories.

This is an excellent elaboration on what I'm talking about, and I'm glad you made it! I know it sounds so uncomplicated, as you say, but I've noticed that it's incredibly rare for how uncomplicated it is, and I love seeing Nakatani do it.

I remember watching Mai-HiME and realising that there was so much going on behind the scenes that was simply just... Never stated, and that you had to interpret away from what you were given. What you were given was clear, but you had to decide for yourself what it meant, whether or not it was true, and how that lined up with how they behaved.

Mai-HiME spoilers below:

One of my favourite examples is Shizuru's descent into madness. She keeps repeating, in broken sentence fragments, that she'll try to make Natsuki hers, but, whenever she says this, it's always accompanied by her fleeing the scene and leaving Natsuki alone. All she does is show up when Natsuki is in danger, and otherwise stays completely out of her way. Natsuki has to seek her out, and Nao has to cause her to come out of hiding by threatening Natsuki.

However, we do know Shizuru is filled with self-hatred regarding her sexuality. She has a classic example of internalised homophobia: she does think of herself as predatory, and she does think of her love and immoral, and she does think that her merely being near Natsuki is a violation. Granted, she does kiss her when asleep, which is somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy, as she also doesn't challenge Haruka's homophobic rant at all, because all Haruka is doing is reaffirming beliefs about herself that she already holds, and she thinks she's proven correct about herself. It's the prime cause of the misunderstanding when Natsuki overhears their conversation. When Natsuki reacts according to that misunderstanding, Shizuru views it as confirmation of her worst fears about herself.

When Shizuru repeats, then, that she'll try to make Natsuki hers, it's because that's what she genuinely thinks she's going to do. The fact that she's a lesbian and that she has this immoral, possessive love for Natsuki, exaggerated by the Carnival, that she kissed Natsuki when asleep, that her love for Natsuki has put Natsuki at risk of dying as Shizuru's most loved person, her acceptance of how Natsuki reacted without questioning it, are all things that reinforce this self-belief. That she never actually realises her desire to "try and make Natsuki hers" is irrelevant, because she was never going to. All she wanted was to hide away in the Student Council room and drink tea and pretend everything was normal, until Natsuki herself showed up and challenged her.

None of the above is told to the viewer. It's all extrapolated from her limited, repetitive dialogue, and how that dialogue contradicts her behaviour. We know Shizuru is in love, and that she views her love as destructive, but her recounting of that love isn't accurate to the actions she takes within the narrative.

Similarly, in YagaKimi, we know how the characters think they feel, but are those thoughts accurate? If they are accurate, how far are they a complete understanding of their situation?

Edit: Er, can you tell I like Mai-HiME? Haha.

last edited at Mar 29, 2018 10:45PM

Huh, sure. I'm curious about what you mean when you say that the characterisation is ambiguous, because I think it's not.

Oh, my bad! I thought you meant for the visual narration. I didn't elaborate on the characterisation as much. I'll do so now.

imo, you're maybe taking my words a little more strongly than I'm intending, which might be a fault in how I'm expressing myself. I don't think the characters are inscrutable; I just think that there's room for debate, hence the ambiguity. I don't think something is either 100% ambiguous or 100% declarative, or we either know 100% of everything or 100% of nothing. Similarly, I don't think something is 100% subtle or 100% obvious.

For some examples, the recent debate about Yuu is a good one. How far is she honest with herself, and how far is her honesty an accurate reflection of the situation? How far does Touko really not want to be loved, and why does she have the beliefs that lead her to that conclusion?

A more understated one is about Sayaka: why ddid she give up on Touko so easily? Because she was discouraged by that encounter with and reminder of her first love? Because she was too afraid to upset the status quo by competing genuinely with Yuu? Because she thinks her chance has been squandered through her own passivity and is punishing herself for it by taking herself out the equation, thinking she doesn't deserve Touko? Because doesn't believe she's what Touko needs, because she's a coward, and Yuu is braver? How far are any of these beliefs about herself actually true, and how many of them are just Sayaka's low self-esteem, or her thinking giving up is easier than rejection?

I think, for me, ambiguous characterisation is more that the manga doesn't come out and say, "here's what I think and why", and instead tries to sort through their feelings like a normal person. All of their soliloquies are in-character, and reflect their perception, and are told in their voice, and don't feel like Nakatani is delivering me line notes from her brainstorm.

When Sayaka says, "I'm sad, I don't want to do this, I'm a coward and Touko will never love me, I should stop trying and accept the truth,", that doesn't mean that's all there is to it. There's an internal emotional logic that Nakatani doesn't take us through, beyond showing us Sayaka's reaction to her realisation about the play. The monologue shows her processing her feelings and coming to a conclusion, but that doesn't mean the conclusion is accurate.

It's him who helped create the Shaft we know today & he basically directs almost every one of their shows, sometimes with a co-director, from Hidamari Sketch to Saiyonara Zetsubou Sensei to Arakawa Under the Bridge to the Monogatari series to Madoka & all the recent shows, too.

Interesting! Thanks for the information.

I don't think original authors are given that much power over the adaptation like you're implying

No, they don't. I'm just describing what I want to see, ideally.

Subtlety =/= obscurity. The way Nakatani uses visual storytelling is deliberate & intentional, but it doesn't distract from the reading experience. Everything flows naturally and is carefully integrated into the contexts of the given scenes.

In the same vein, subtlety =/= a lack of invasiveness. I'd describe Nakatani's visual narrative style as natural, as well, but I wouldn't describe it as subtle.

I'm also confused about your definition of subtlety. As I've never referred to subtlety as being synonymous with obscurity, I'm going to ignore that as being a misinterpretation, and mention that "obviousness" is consistently and universally referred to as an antonym of "subtlety". If something is obvious, it is, by its definition, not subtle.

This may just be my autism, though! Forgive me if seems a bit pedantic - it's a genuine inquiry.

To repeat myself a little, I don't think something has to be 100% one way or the other. I think there's room for something to float in the middle. YagaKimi's visual storytelling has subtlety within it, absolutely, and Nakatani puts a lot of effort into making her metaphors seem part of the natural progression of events (which, imo, pays off), but I wouldn't consider subtlety of visual style to be a defining feature of her work. In reference to your example: that, to me, is exceptionally obvious, and not what I'd refer to as subtle at all. There are subtle elements to it, which you illustrate, but it's a very clear break from reality and regular perception, which is immediately highlighted with the contrast between the two panels in the page, and the purpose of it is instantly clear. I don't have to think about the meaning of it or why it's there, and I'm not left examining the panel for hidden meanings, because it's all obvious.

I do understand your points about SHAFT, though. I just don't think they'd be the complete reimagining of the source that others do. SHAFT's main drawbacks in naturalistic visual storytelling is the fact that, well... Those criticisms are applied to stories which aren't, by nature, naturalistic. They're supernatural stories with supernatural content. Their non-supernatural animations are a lot more subdued, and I believe they could channel that again. That's all.

I haven't read any of the posts pass this one yet, so you might have brought up other points I'm not addressing. Working all day so I won't be able to keep up or respond quickly, but it's been a fun discussion.

It has! I'm very much enjoying myself; I hope y'all are too.

I can't into Mecha. Sorry man.

We all have different tastes. It's what makes the world interesting.

You are free to believe they are

Which I don't, and never said I did. What I did say, however, was that I believe subtlety invites ambiguity by its nature, and that the presence of subtlety as described in this forum would necessitate some level of ambiguity.

I guess, we have to give specific examples about what we are talking about because just giving overall replies may confuse us.

I've done that several times. I could compile them in a new post, or quote the pages to make them easier to find?

I think it does feel like it. We agree to disagree.

Aye. I'm used to that in textual fiction and in playwriting, which often uses soliloquies in this fashion, so it doesn't seem that absurd to me for it to be used here. The monologues are all in-character and told from the character's perspectives, and can be interpreted alternatively. That might be where our difference is.

I think you're making a mistake here. It seems like you may believe subtle = ambiguous, and that's not true at all.

I think it is true. Subtlety by its very nature invites more ambiguity than the alternative, as subtlety is defined indirectness and by implication, not by concrete statements and declarations of fact. If a narrative is subtle, it doesn't go out of its way to announce itself to you, and instead lets itself be communicated through the characters' actions and their dialogue.

Something being subtle enough to warrant mentioning in the way that you and others, including myself, have (i.e., as the defining feature of the work) would necessitate it being ambiguous, at least on some level.

I think you might be confusing subtlety with a lack of bombast. The visuals are, for the most part, unexaggerated, but I wouldn't describe them as subtle, and most definitely not in regards to where they prop up the narrative.

So, it's wrong to say the visual storytelling is only subtle or straightforward.

Which I never said, and in fact explicitly denied, in very clear phrasing. You can find my post on this page, beginning with this sentence: "Oh, I don't think there's a lack of subtlety, my bad if you got that impression."

I then went on to clarify that the subtlety present in YagaKimi is less in the visual narration, especially lacking in the areas of unreliability, and more in the realm of characterisation, which I think Blastaar is illustrating very nicely.

Hell, you only need to look back on this very forum to see people's attitudes regarding this series. The sheer level of debate and analysis going on over the interpretations of the characters, as opposed to the visual elements, is what convinces me that the visual elements aren't subtle or ambiguous. Everyone's pretty much on board with what's going on there.

I'm not sure about this, we have seen Touko, Sayaka and Yuu having inner monologues that help understand why they act the way they do, I don't think there's room for interpretation in this regard. Personally, I think this aspect is straightforward. But Yuu is an unreliable narrator sometimes, at least she was during volume 4 in regards to her feelings for Touko, because she said one thing and thought/acted the opposite. Their monologues are clear, the subtle part is the visual storytelling, because it's not shown in your face as said above.

Yes, we've heard monologues that help show their thought processes, but those monologues are always from the characters' perspectives, and, personally, it doesn't feel as if those monologues were intended as metacommentary to let you know their internal logic which led them to their conclusions, or why they went about their decisions in the way that they did. They were just showing the characters deliberating and venting to themselves, or to other people, and the emotional nature of their monologues is reinforced by the visual storytelling in an extremely obvious way. I'm not sure why you think Maki's understated dialogue in saying he prefers to watch couples is somehow less subtle than Nakatani separating from realism to depict him as the sole audience member to a stage production of two people's conversations through a very blatant and exaggerated visual metaphor. That's rather strikingly in your face, to me.

Again, I've been quite vocally supportive of Nakatani's use of unreliable visual narration (although I first started mentioning it a few months ago, so you'd be forgiven for not remembering!), and I don't think she's subtle about using it, and I don't think that's a bad thing, either. It's very clear what parts are unreliable and what parts aren't. I think this is necessary, actually, because we're dealing with a story told through multiple viewpoints. At no point does her visual storytelling leave you with ambiguity regarding what's really going on, because it's always clear what's metaphor, what's genuine, what's Yuu being inconsistent, etc.

Subtlety would be, in my opinion, something like Kafka's Metamorphosis, or Nabakov's Lolita, wherein you have to work fairly hard to separate what's intended to be reality and what's intended to be hallucinatory or warped by the narrator to make them seem more favourable. We can't be sure Gregor didn't actually turn into a bug, because it's well within the surrealism of Kafka's works for him to actually have done that, but an interpretation of him perceiving himself that way due to mental illness is valid in the text. Hell, you could even draw a comparison between the earlier seasons of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, before the reveal about Hinamizawa Syndrome being a form of psychosis. There's none of that in YagaKimi - it's extremely obvious where Yuu's unreliability lies, and it's clear when we're supposed to doubt that what we're being shown is the whole complete truth.

last edited at Mar 28, 2018 7:44PM

I'm not sure if Gaotama refers to the same thing as me, but I'd say that the visual storytelling is subtle too. And I say this because it's not "in your face" (as in stated), but rather there are details that most readers don't notice if they don't pay enough attention. For instance, the best example for me is the comparison between chapter 1 and 16. Both have the exact same scene, where Koyomi asks Yuu if she's okay. Yuu hesitates and then say yes. But the difference between chapter 1 and 16 is subtle enough. In chapter 1 Yuu is away from her friends, standing on the dark. In chapter 16, she's right next to them, her face in the light. Instead of saying "yeah Yuu knows what's love now", you have that scene. And there are other moments like this, like parallels between scenes or symbolisms. A good example of symbolism is chapter 24, when Touko and Yuu are on the tunnel and on the train. By saying "we have to change trains", this represents Yuu helping Touko to change, and their relationship eventually evolving into a new one because of this.

Oh, I don't think there's a lack of subtlety, my bad if you got that impression. I think the subtlety is all in the characterisation and the way they respond; they don't overreact or anything, and their responses are all with the realms of how a real person might behave (no dictating their feelings via expository monologue with perfect clarity), so there's a lot of room for interpretive depth as to why they make the decisions they do and what their internal thought processes are.

Gaotama's complaints were about SHAFT channelling the emotional nature of certain scenes a little too strongly, and my counter to that was that... Well... So does Nakatani. The emotional weight of the scenes is very clear and suffuse the panels whenever they're present.

But, again, my main frame of reference is Bakemonogatari. Another user pointed out that 3gatsu is based on an even more exaggerated source material, which is the opposite of what a YagaKimi adaptation would be, so I'm not sure those 3gatsu exaggerations are necessarily indicative of the choices they'd make for this manga.

I think this is a really interesting discussion, though. I'm glad we're having it.

That said, I still mostly care about this becoming a fully realized work as a manga, and while I’d hate to see it connected to a botched production, I don’t have much invested in a possible anime one way or the other.

I agree! I think it works very well as a manga, and, while I'll be happy to get a faithful adaptation, I'm also not terribly invested. The awful manga of Mai-HiME didn't ruin the anime for me.

Yes, cuz Akiyuki Shinbo is Shaft lol

Do they only have the one director? I didn't know that.

Like there would be shots zooming into things or transitions that don't add anything to the narrative, kinda like their infamous head tilts.

I think these problems are easily fixable with good direction and Nakatani advising. She probably has a very clear idea of what she wants an anime of her work to look like.

I'm not saying it's wrong. The point I'm trying to make with Shaft is that the way they use colors or direct anime is not subtle or naturalistic, but rather overt & highly exaggerated.

In my experience, they can have those naturalistic colours, and I've seen that in Bakemonogatari. The way they draw sunset and night scenes to emphasise a feeling of supernaturality is a great example of them using colour palettes well. Just because their more exaggerated colour uses are more memorable doesn't mean they're incapable of being understated.

I love them, but I just don't see them adapting YagaKimi and still make it the subtle series that it is.

I guess our main difference is that I don't see YagaKimi's actual visual storytelling as being subtle. I think it's very overt and obvious. The subtlety is in the interpretation, not in the presentation; what the scenes actually mean in terms of characterisation is never dictated, but how the scenes are supposed to make you feel and how they reflect the characters' states, are all very prominent, almost by necessity. You can't rely on an unsubtle medium when your dialogue is ambiguous, because then everything would be ambiguous, and there'd be no fun in discussing it, since there'd be almost nothing to discuss. Nakatani strikes a very clever balance between having understated characterisation and overstated methods of immersing us in the characters and their feelings so we still feel a connection to them. I never feel like Nakatani lets a panel go to waste.

A good example for me is that Yuu never says she feels unsettled by Touko during her more sinister moments, but the narrative is very clear in communicating that Yuu does, in fact, feel unsettled. The scenes themselves become darker, the characters' expressions turn blank, there are frequent zoom ins, the panels linger on them to try and invite you to interpret them as the characters themselves are doing... It's all in-your-face, but it works pretty well.

Although I'm slightly raising my eyebrow at the fact that you implied that Maid Dragon was an adaptation without heart

In fairness, I highly dislike the source material, and I never watched the adaptation as a result. Maybe that's an exception.

Shaft is actually my favorite studio.

Mine is Sunrise! Mecha Sunrise, though.

By those, I just mean obvious or overt visual cues/effects. Not specifically saying that Shaft uses flower patterns or sparkle effects. It's been a while since I've seen Bakemonogatari, so I really can't comment on it. The most recent work by Shaft that I do remember is 3gatsu. I'm a fan of that anime, but the directing style is not subtle at all. Lots of zooming into faces/eyes turning as transitions. Sad scenes? Let's make everything blue or grey so everyone knows that it's sad. Happy scenes? Let's make everything super shiny with bubbles & bright warm colors to make everyone knows that it's happy. Characters are anxious? Let's distort their figures so everyone knows that they are not ok. It's very experimental and fun and I enjoy it well, but it's very in-your-face & that may make for an interesting adaptation that totally puts the story in a different light, but for now, I prefer something that really captures the essence of this series & also elevates it with audio/animation, rather than redefines it.

I haven't actually seen 3gatsu, but I saw it was directed by the same person as Bakemonogatari, and there were indeed a few zooms and closeups and such in that. In the same vein, though, there are also quite a few zooms and closeups in YagaKimi, except they're communicated through panels instead of through animation, so they're perhaps easier to gloss over.

Nakatani uses quite a few comparative visual choices herself, including some of the things you complain about: the entire background fading out to plain white with the focus solely on Touko; Yuu flinching at how brightly Touko seems to be sparkling before she kisses her; an extremely ominous few panels zooming in on Touko's expression and her eyes as Yuu wonders what's in them; a cutaway to Maki observing two people interacting on the stage of a play to show his emotional distance. Having her as an advisory presence could bring in SHAFT's creativeness to channel the essence of those scenes, while also avoiding too much of the more abstract elements that I think you're complaining about.

Having said that, though, I have to admit, I don't see anything wrong with their inventive use of colour. Perhaps it's a little overstated in 3gatsu, I couldn't say. But! Ohara Masakazu's use of colour in everything he's directed has been stellar, and I think his willingness to go outside the traditional palette is something I greatly admire about him and his works, especially since they're so closely connected to the tone of the scenes and the intent of the narrative. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of KyoAni as animators in general? I find that, while their anime are often very detailed and realistic, their characters often seem like a surreal platonic ideal of a highschooler, and their soundtracks are almost Key-like in how intent they are at (unsuccessfully) dragging an emotion out of me. It's very jarring for me, personally.

It's like... Everything has to look as close to reality as possible, but their characters also have to adhere to some weird standard of moe banality that leaves them feeling incredibly well-realised but also oddly vacuous in some fundamental, unsettling way. I often feel like KyoAni productions are the visual equivalent of aliens shoving slice-of-life and psychological thriller into a predictive text and transposing that onto their understanding of humanity.

Maybe that's just me! But KyoAni stuff always feels hollow, like it's chasing the nostalgia of a Ghibli film without any feeling behind it. All technical skill and no heart. That's absolutely not what I want for YagaKimi.

The way Shaft uses visuals to communicate ideas is nothing like what this series does. One of YagaKimi's biggest selling points is that it is able to capture emotions and feelings through subtle visual storytelling. You don't see Nakatani puts flower patterns or sparkle effects over the characters' faces to amplify any emotions, its charm is in the slight changes in facial expression, body position, panel composition, character acting, etc. It's very naturalistic in its visual storytelling, not experimental. Giving the Shaft flare would make it a different series, if you ask me. This is why I wish for KyoAni because they are the best studio at more naturalistic subtlety.

I agree with your criticism of having flower patterns and sparkle effects being bad for the narrative, but I also don't connect that criticism with SHAFT. As I've said, I associate Bakemonogatari very positively with understated talking scenes with creative animated flair.

Can you elaborate on some examples, maybe?

I think Shaft's take on this would be fascinating. We already have characters with unsettling personality quirks and flaws, Shaft's creative visual direction could make it even more special than the manga. The Monogatari series's problems are rooted in the novels.

Yeah, I really dislike when otherwise creative visual works are ruined by bad source material. Accel World was such an egregious example of that. Such amazing scene composition and colour usage ruined by necessity of accuracy. :(

last edited at Mar 28, 2018 4:02AM

That's the last studio I want to see animate YagaKimi. I love them but they don't know the concept of subtlety.

What makes you say that? I thought they did quite well on some of the first season of Bakemonogatari's talking scenes, although they kinda went a bit bonkers with the following season. I think if they involved Nakatani in an advisory capacity, their willingness to play with animation style might work quite well for adapting her tendency to use visuals as a method to enhance the narrative. Other studios tend to view animation as a pragmatic necessity to communicate visuals of a scene instead of viewing it as a method by which they can amplify characterisation or emotion.

My ideal would obviously be either Ohara Masakazu, the wokest bae, or Tokoro Tomokazu of Haibane Renmei fame, but nobody can have everything.

It just needs someone who's confident enough to allow lingering, contemplative shots which let the characters and dialogue settle into them, as well as someone who can be adventurous when it comes to using audio/animation/etc. as an additional narrative avenue.

Kind of a rare ask in anime these days. Feels like everything is just a brainstorm that's dictated to you via dialogue. The last thing I enjoyed with any kind of complexity was Ga-Rei -Zero-.

To be honest, I kinda want to see SHAFT animate it... They're often pretty unique with animation as a medium, and I think their willingness to focus on slow-paced dialogue without feeling the need to make it bombastic and ridiculous would serve this series well.

Ahh, exciting! Super glad to see an update.

Psyren is a HUGE blast from the past. Glad to see that and YKnN on there.

Is there really much benefit in terms of the storytellling to be had from an anime version of this work?

I'd actually be really interested to see how they adapt Nakatani's unreliable narration in terms of colours, pacing of scenes, and sound direction. I think it could be enhanced very well. Animation has far more control over how certain things are perceived by the audience just by deciding how long a scene should go on and how long the camera shoulder linger on a certain thing, for example.

Devilman Crybaby is one of the best examples of an animator using animation less as a pragmatic medium and more as an emotional one, using various techniques to engross an audience into a character's perspective, e.g. when Kukun is rapping and the background slowly fades, other sounds filter out, and his voice develops a solitary echoing as Miko becomes more and more absorbed by what he's doing.

So, yeah! I think there's a lot to be gained.

last edited at Mar 9, 2018 8:13PM

Honestly, this is a snapshot in time of this couple focusing on the process of deciding to have a child as lesbians in Japan and the process of making arrangements. What's happened years later really has nothing to do with it.

I agree. We can respect the content of this manga without seeking out drama years in the future. It sounds like the break-up was amicable and I'm sure, if they did have this child, it would grow up respected/loved regardless.

Entering 2018 the right way: with blessed Shizuru/Natsuki content.

Glad Kou-kun got to reconsider, and I'm not at all surprised he broke up with Michael. Good for him! :p

I just wanted to add my two cent in regards to Touko's Stubborness, I honestly think her self hatred stems more from the survivors guilt then incompetence.

I agree with this, although I think the way in which it manifests suits both sides. Like, she does obviously have a large inferiority complex that was exacerbated by her sister's death. She loved her sister and obviously still places her on a very high pedestal, viewing her as an ideal to strive towards at the expense of her own identity. Part of this, though, is because she feels guilty that someone she believes to be better than her was killed and yet she remains alive, so she's trying to fill the void she feels she created by being the one to survive.

Or, something like that.

PS: Shiznat shippers Yay!

lmao, I will literally die on the Shizuru/Natsuki hill. What an #iconique pair.

It's not Mari/Kate, but I'll take it.

Mai-HiME.

:^)

That's (relatively) old school, but I loved it.

I rewatch it every year. I can't believe it was made in 2004 and has four canonically gay characters, one of which is a main promotional character. And who has a healthy relationship with her love interest. Like. What.

Edit: I also realised I forgot to add my comments about this chapter. I agree with people who say it felt underwhelming; I was anticipating some resistance here, given that, like other users say, she's more of an emotional person than a logical one. Yuu denying her the kiss would shock her, sure, but she seems to have reached a resolution to believe in her remarkably quick with remarkably little conflict. I also find it odd that Nakatani goes out of her way to portray Touko having such disdain or dismissiveness regarding what Yuu was saying and to have her subsequently accept it with little resistance.

But, who knows. Maybe Nakatani will surprise me.

last edited at Dec 3, 2017 11:49PM