I'm kind of lost in the discussion and I think others replied what I was going to reply, so for now I'll just talk about this, first of all, I don't see Sungji as a plot device to heal Sumin since she's pretty obviously a main character, as for who is the protagonist, I think it is Sumin since she is the one in the center of the story and we see mainly her point of view, Seju is the deuteragonist because the story is as much about her as it is about Sumin, she also have complete chapters that are basically about her, I don't remember but are them in her point of view? As for Sungji, she's the tritagonist, she is definitely more important than just a plot devide to heal Sumin, but she is definitely not the most important here and not the center of the story since she's not fleshed out at all, and like, hardships? what hardships she had? her life is perfect compared to Seju and Sumin, you can't really say this is about her hardships when Seju and Sumin are the one with real problems.

As for Seju she's in no way a subplot, what is happening now is that we're having two parts of the story in parallel, I already said before, but the reason I think we see more Sumin x Sunji is because she is healing first and because less things happens in Seju life, of course I'm not saying Sumin will be completely healed, the problem is that the stories didn't cross yet, because when that happens we're going to go back to the real main plot of the story that is Seju and Sumin relationship and their healing, also, another reason why Seju and Sumin relationship is the main plot instead of Sumin relationship with Sungji? Simple, if Sungji was more important than Seju then not only she would be way more fleshed out, but she would also have chapters that are mainly about her, but Seju is the one who have them because she is the character that matters the most together with Sumin, if Seju was nothing more than something on the sides then it doesn't make sense that since the beginning she is present in the banner, cause from what I remember and in case some of you forgot, originally Sungji was not in the banner because the story was always first about Seju and Sumin, only later when she became relevant that they put Sungji in there, only main characters that are part of the main plot show up in banner, Sungji is in there not just because she is Sumin girlfriend, but because she is the one moving the plot.

Another thing, how is Seju a threat? that doesn't make sense at all, during 10 years she never did anything against Sumin so she won't start doing it now, Seju is important because this story is about Seju and Sumin broken relationship, this is a healing story above all else so how wouldn't she be relevant if both are broken and need healing? Just because she's in love with Sumin that doesn't make her a threat in any way to her relationship with Sungji, not to mention that, how Seju is crazy? she never did anything crazy, a crazy person don't wait for the one they love for 10 years, a crazy person would do everything she could to have that person back, but all she did and still do is wait for her return, she is obssessed that is a fact, but that doesn't make her crazy, that just shows that she is stuck in the past and that just like Sumin she needs to let it go and move with her life.

Well, maybe later I'll make a post to talk about the rest, not much brain capacity to think about the rest now, I'm actually not even sure I said properly what I wanted or if I didn't forgot to say anything...

And oliver, you can defend Seju without wanting Sumin relationship to end, what I argue against is about how some people try to diminish Seju importance to the story, cause like I said above, both Seju and Sumin have the same importance for the plot since this is a healing story, the creators themselves said that and Sungji is not damaged like Seju and Sumin, so there's no logic in her being more important than Seju since she doesn't need any healing, what happens is that some people seens to be blinded by Sumin x Sungji fluffly moments because the story is focusing more on them now, but as soon as they interact with Seju again I'm pretty sure we won't see that as much anymore, besides Sumin having more happening on her life than Seju, I think that another reason their focus is unbalanced is because first Team Gaji will show that Sumin relationship with Sungji is solid, then she'll be ready to finally solve her problems with Seju, we're also going to probably see more of Seju and Nami if they plan on making them a couple when things are finally balanced and we see more of Seju side.

Azai, good to finally have someone else helping, Seju already suffered pretty much her entire life, now some people want to put her to the sides as if this is not her story too? As if she was not a main character since the first chapter and as important as Sumin? Didn't she suffer and lose enough already? I say she did! So we can't stay quiet! Team Pink aside, even if Sumin never comes back to her again, first of all we're people who are on Seju side, so we can't let this happen without saying nothing, that's why I call all of you from Team Pink to fight against this injustice! Who are with me???

Geez, my attempt on making a rousing speech is so embarassing, guess it's time to dig my own hole to hide (T^T)

I see, thanks Martian and chocofudge, I always get confused when someone says Seju want Sumin relationships to fail because she never really wished for that, but it is true she want Sumin to have problems in her relationship, but I don't think it is that bad, I mean, even if it's just problem that is not a good thing to want, there's no denying that, but I always see people mentioning that in the worst way possible, but honestly? I don't think she wishes that Sumin have problems in her relationships out of malice, how I see things is that just like us, Seju is completely aware that if Sumin finally finds someone then they'll probably never see each other again, cause let's be honest, if this was not a healing story that could easily happens, or we would at least expect that has good chances to happen if we didn't know this is a healing story, I really doubt Seju want Sumin relationships to have problems for pety reasons like want to possess her, taking in acount their complex relationship and how much Seju still loves Sumin, I think the real reason is not simply guilty, obssession or the fact that she doesn't have anyone else, well, they are definitely part of the reason, but I think it is because above all else, Seju just can't see a life without Sumin in some way, I think she don't care why, she just need a reason, any reason for Sumin to come back, and her relationships having problems is probably the only thing she can think that will make Sumin come back, because she knows Seju will always be there for her, but Seju probably also knows that they'll probably never be together again, she's going to always wait for a day that might happen, but beside the promise to be each other family, if Sumins find someone else she don't really have any reason to come back, and Seju is probably terrified of that.

Of course I'm not trying to make Seju sounds better than Sumin just because she probably don't really wish that, I don't think one is better than the other at all, although it is true that Sumin did some pretty bad things against Seju, I don't think it's just for revenge anymore, in the beginning it definitely was, but both are stuck in the past, after so long being in that love/hate relationship that they have, I just don't think they can avoid hurting each other in some way, Seju is basically a doormat and just endured anything Sumin did against her, which in itself is bad and in the long run helped a lot to make their relationship fucked up, while Sumin, even if she doesn't want I don't think she's capable of interacting with Seju without hurting her in some way, they're just too broken to interact with each other like normal people, I think they're even too used with Sumin hurting Seju and maybe even scared to even try to change their dynamic after so long, they make me think of Evangelion, Seju and Sumin relationship and a little of their personality are pretty much like Shinji and Asuka, only difference is that it won't end with everyone dying in the third impact... Or will it?

Well, as always my posts are unnecessarily long, any opinions on what I said? And as for Seju = Shinji and Sumin = Asuka, does that mean that Sungji = Rei? I mean, Sungji is pretty moe too, and if Seju end up with Nami would that make her into Kaworu? Would Seju family be either Gendou or Seele?

last edited at Mar 25, 2016 4:35AM

I'm completely sure the story is about healing Seju and Sumin because both are main characters, if only Sumin is healed then it just won't be a healing story, because in a healing story all characters are healed, what the original story was don't matter, especially since it was going to be drama free, it's true that the story focus more on Sumin, but that doesn't mean she's more hurt than Seju, don't forget that we did see Sumin get hurt, but we also saw that she was hurting Seju on purpose for 10 years, not saying one is more hurt than the other of course, both are really hurt but in different ways, so we can't really compare, also, I didn't say the story is not about romance too, but the fact that Team Gaji themselves said this is a healing story shows that this is the main plot, it's just beind done through romance, I say that romance is not the main plot because some people think that Seju is completely useless to the story now that we have Sumin x Sungji, but if you don't think like that then I do agree that, ignoring the fact that this is a healing story, then this is indeed a romance story, especially because it's almost sure that part of what will heal Seju will be her probably romantic relationship with Nami, just like it is happening now with Sumin relationship with Sungji, but I don't think they will be fully healed until they finally talk with each other.

Isn't the story already randomly jumping to Seju? Someone even said that we're more or less having 3 chapters of Sumin x Sungji and then 1 chapter of Seju, what I think that will happen is that when Sumin is more obviously healed, either we're going to have more chapters about Seju or we're going to start seeing the story from her point of view like how it happened with No-rae and Seol-a in FF.

I agree that the Seju doesn't stand on her own either, really, the way the story is it just can't exist without both Seju, Sumin and Sungji, without one of them it would be completely different, maybe even the same for Nami, the way I see it, Team Gaji could have easily done two connected webcomics/manwha, one from Seju point of view and one from Sumin point of view, even if each was only 40 chapters, not only it would make everyone happy, but it would also better to flesh out both characters and still following the same main plot since one can't exist without the other, I think in part the reason we don't see as much about Seju is because she's too passive, so not as much happens in her life like it happens for Sumin, and when something do happens, it is pretty much always something bad, I think that when we start seeing more Seju moments with Nami then the chapters and story will be more balanced between Seju x Nami and Sumin x Sungji, I think it makes sense we see more about Sumin since she's healing first.

As for how Seju is, I agree she's obssessed with Sumin and that is definitely unhealthy, but at least she never did anything bad because of that, I don't think it's just because she's passive, but also because she still loves Sumin a lot and don't want to hurt her, and seriously, did we ever see Seju wishing that Sumin relationships don't work? I mean, she expects that they won't work, I won't deny that it's not something nice to expect, but it's definitely not the same as outright wish that they won't work, but I do understand why they can be seen as the same, but believing a relationship won't work and wishing it won't work will never be the same, that's why I want you guys opinion, cause at least from what I remember she only expects, never wished, not to mention that even if she does wish for Sumin relationships to not work, you can't really judge her, don't forget that Sumin hurt and used her for 10 years on purpose, no one can judge Seju if she does wish that, it's not nice that she thinks that, but she never did even one thing to on purpose hurt Sumin or ruin her relationships, and I just want confirmation if she wishes or not since I don't remember.

Again about Seju being pathetic, I think her whole life she was pathetic, that is not something bad, it's one of her endearing traits, but I do agree that part of why she's so pathetic need to be resolved since she's like that in part for never talking with Sumin about their broken relationship and live in the past, but other reason she's pathetic is probably because of her relationship with her family and how she can't do anything about it, it's probably their fault she's so passive and pathetic to begin with.

last edited at Mar 25, 2016 2:18AM

I know that it can be both and that the story could have existed without Seju, but I believe the person who said Sumin x Sungji can stand on it's own meant that Seju is not necessary anymore, yeah the themes are not mutually exclusive, but those who think Seju is not necessary apparently don't understand that the story was always about healing Seju and Sumin, not about Sumin romance with Sungji, it's against this that I'm arguing, it's what I meant about this not being a romance story, it has romance but it was never the main plot, if their relationship was part of the story from the beginning then I could agree, but that is just how Sumin starts healing, I said before, but I believe that later the story will focus more on Seju healing when Sumin is more healed.

Also, come on Team Pink, people are talking about Seju and I'm the only one defending her?

Forgot to say, but Sumin x Sungji can't stand on its own without Seju because this is not a romance story, this is a healing story with romance, their romance is just a part of the main plot, in the end the main plot will go back to Seju and Sumin relationship.

But did Seju ever wished for Sumin relationship to not work? As far as I know she never really hoped that they would not work, she just expect they won't work cause Sumin never had another relationship that worked, why would she wish that Sumin relationship won't work when she knows thanks to the last 10 years that they won't work? Also, since when Seju ever tried to possess Sumin? She wants to be with Sumin, not possess her, sorry but in my opinion Seju never acted in a way that shows she care more about having Sumin with her instead of seeing her happy, if she ever did anything against Sumin relationships then I could agree, but I feel you're not seeing Seju how she really is, it was always Sumin who came back to use her and all Seju did was give support, if anything I see Seju wanting Sumin to be happy, sorry Kinetik_09, but I complely disagree on your view of Seju.

I agree Seju can be seen as pathetic, but in a good way, her whole life is suffering except for the brief time of happiness with Sumin, she's completely passive to it, enduring it all alone, you can't always have a sympathetic character without them being pathetic, she's the kind of pathetic that makes you want to hug her and tell her everything will be alright, she's The Woobie

Riiiiight, because you're the lord of truth, what you say is absolute and everyone else is wrong, because it's not like there's people out there who will simply never feel attracted to a gender, don't forget what Chikara is saying everyone, we're all pansexual and can feel attracted to any person and fall in love with anyone, it's society that makes us forget that!

Seriously, it's funny how you complaing about a post making you annoyed and then makes an annoying post yourself, love can't be categorized? Kind of wrong, because love is already categorized, the love you feel for your family is not the same you feel for your lover for example, attraction is completely dependent on gender, attraction and sexuality are not the same as love, it's true that you can love someone of the gender you don't feel attracted to, but that is extremely rare and not enough to make a relationship work, sexuality is a fact and there's more than just straight, gay and bi, it's not just society who categorize things, people chose how to categorize themselves using what society and decades of studies gives to us, we're the only ones limiting ourselves, there's no such thing as "true love" or "soulmates", this is real life not a Disney movie, that kind of thing that is bullshit, love is finite, love is something that need to be nurtured, maintained, that you and your partner need to put effort and work to make it strong and last, I won't really say more on this, maybe I'm wrong in part of what I said, I won't deny that, but at least I don't show up arrogantly calling out someone as if my view of the world is the only one that is right, in case you decide to reply to me I hope someone else will discuss the subject with you Chikara , I know that I won't, the fact that you said "even if you disagree with me you are just wrong" shows that you're not here to have a rational discussion at all.

Derpalot_, from what manga is your avatar from?

last edited at Mar 24, 2016 2:28AM

Tehyar posted:

Tehyar, where is your avatar from?

http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/one_who_depicts_love

Thanks. o7

Tehyar, where is your avatar from?

I agree with you Kitsune Spirit. I was just making my post but you said first.

Anyway, what I was going to say is that we simply can't compare The 100 with TWD at all when it comes to the death of the lgbt character, because unlike The 100, TWD never promised lgbt characters, never made hype about it, never promoted themselves because of that, like how they're superior than other shows because of how they include lgbt characters, they never treated them as something special, they never tried to bait people, not to mention that the deaths are completely different and in my opinion it fits the character, also, The Walking Dead never tried to be a particularly well written serie and only the main characters have plot armor, their plot armor is so strong that they survive situations that they shouldn't have survived at all, Glenn being the worst offender, the rest can die pretty much any time and in some pretty stupid ways or even impossible ways.

Just so people have some context, they're not killing her because she's lesbian, I'm actually surprised that Denise died, everyone was probably expecting that her girlfriend Tara would be the one to die since the actress is pregnant, we're in the part of the story where they're going to fight the Saviors so it's guaranteed that more characters will die, another reason you could see Denise as a good choice to be killed is because she's basically the medic of their settlement, which will cause more drama later when someone gets injured, they also used her to play with us, Denise wanted to go see a shop that had a pharmacy inside because it could have some meds no one found, so she made Daryl and Rosita go with her, first Denise had the brilliant idea of going alone in a dark room where you could hear noises of a walker, but he was all fucked up so there was no risk, later she had the brilliant idea of getting a cooler from a car that had a walker inside, now this time she really almost died, then they continue to walk, Denise stops to start a speech for Daryl and Rosita because she doesn't like how they're acting, we're near the end of the episode, everything is cool, then she takes an arrow to the eye out of nowhere and dies, it's some Saviors that found them, they kill those Saviors with help of one of their friends that was hiding and then they go home, so in my opinion her character would have died the same way if she was straight or a man.

Well, guess this was a unnecessarily big as always...

last edited at Mar 21, 2016 6:13PM

I tried but didn't find any more relevant meanings to the flower, most of the words they use have pretty much the same meaning of the ones I already said before, the rest of the meanings are pretty much exclusive to chinese culture, if anyone want to have a look I recommend search for plum blossom, the other names of the flower don't really give much results, but I think we can safely assume Sumin chose it because of how it's related to winter and spring since it's the meaning and simbology everyone knows, we just don't know the exactly context she uses, I also think that the meaning Martian found is probably another reason Team Gaji chose that flower," "It's never too late to make amend" and there are also other meanings like infidelity, unfaithfulness etc" fits too well with the story to be just a coincidence.

I think that "Three Friends of Winter" could be a possible reason that Team Gaji chose that flower, but neither Seju or Sungji are associated pine or bamboo, same "Four Gentlemen"/"Four Noble Ones" if we put Nami in the mix, so I think we can ignore them for now.

Thia-sama I made the avatar like, 3 months ago, soo the bigger version is most likely gone by now lol, but i can make it again :) waaait a moment

EDIT: here ya go, of course i made sungji smile, and this is the biggest i can make before seolrae becomes too pixelated

http://s17.postimg.org/pbesz3khr/Untitled_3.png

Awesome, thanks thatanon. \ ( * = * ) /

last edited at Mar 21, 2016 3:10PM

I also have to agree, because we're outsiders and see various moments of their past and present we know that Sung-pyo is a nice guy and would never do anything, not to mention we also know part of what they think and that he still loves No-rae, but it doesn't really matter if he's a ex-boyfriend or just a friend, even if he is someone No-rae trust I just don't see any reason for Seol-a to leave him alone with her because she just don't know him, I think this should be the same if it was a woman, it doesn't really matter what kind of relationship they have, their gender or how much No-rae trust them, unless it was someone Seol-a knows she can trust, like Hye-gyeong or someone from No-rae family, why would she leave them alone with No-rae? Now if she knew Sung-pyo well enough to trust him like she knows Hye-gyeong then I think it wouldn't be a problem, but of course even if this was the case I doubt she would leave them alone because she wants No-rae all for herself. xD

But I have to admit that I kind of feel pity for Sung-pyo, he tried to quickly think of a excuse to stay with No-rae and Seol-a easily destroyed it and he had to run away with his tail between his legs, I actually think she would have easily destroyed any argument he could have made, I guess when Seol-a wants to mark her territory there's just no one that can win.

As for this in real life, I don't think it matter the culture, if you need to leave a drunk or unconscious woman with a man, in my opinion it should be with someone from her family, preferably her father or brother, it can also be a uncle, cousin or grandfather if you know they're close, I do think you could leave with a male friend or ex-boyfriend if he's close enough that both of you know he can be trusted, but unfortunately how many male friends or ex-boyfriend you know that really are friends with a woman? Unfortunately most man and woman don't even believe friendship between opposite sex is possible, so unless it's a good guy with who they are friends for many years, which is rare, I don't think you can really trust a man to take care of a drunk or unconscious woman, except maybe a ex-husband who you know is a good guy, after all they would have a past and know each other for some years.

Althought I don't think a female friend should automatically be trusted, but of course woman tend to be way more reliable, so I think that as long as you know she's a good friend of the drunk or unconscious woman and they know each other for some time then you can trust her, same with ex-girlfriend.

Do guys even have this kind of problem? I mean, do you even need to worry about a drunk or unconscious guy if you leave him with a friend that you know it's not a jerk? I know this is a pretty obvious double standard, but is it just me or this is one of the few double standards that is not bad?

And thatanon, that's a nice avatar you have there, I assume you have a bigger version of it, do you mind sharing it?

last edited at Mar 21, 2016 2:33AM

Well, just watched The Walking Dead latest episode, Denise died, she's one of the lesbian characters, her girlfriend Tara will probably die too, only two episodes left and the actress is pregnant.

In my first post above I gave link that shows pictures of Tan Jiu, Moss and Old Xian, it also gives some information about them but the entire site is in vietnamese, though google translation was not that bad so you can just use it, it's what I did.

last edited at Mar 20, 2016 3:15AM

So it really was yellow Japanese apricot blossom, the flower is also know as Chinese plum and plum blossom, Wikipedia gives some of the meanings:

Chinese meaning
The plum blossom is seen as a symbol of winter and a harbinger of spring. The blossoms are so beloved because they are viewed as blooming most vibrantly amidst the winter snow, exuding an ethereal elegance, while their fragrance is noticed to still subtly pervade the air at even the coldest times of the year. Therefore, the plum blossom came to symbolize perseverance and hope, but also beauty, purity, and the transitoriness of life. In Confucianism, the plum blossom stands for the principles and values of virtue. More recently, it has also been used as a metaphor to symbolize revolutionary struggle since the turn of the 20th century.

Because it blossoms in the cold winter, the plum blossom is regarded as one of the "Three Friends of Winter", along with pine, and bamboo. The plum blossom is also regarded as one of the "Four Gentlemen" of flowers in Chinese art together with the orchid, chrysanthemum, and bamboo. It is one of the "Flowers of the Four Seasons", which consist of the orchid (spring), the lotus (summer), the chrysanthemum (autumn) and the plum blossom (winter). These groupings are seen repeatedly in the Chinese aesthetic of art, painting, literature, and garden design.

There is more on the chinese meaning but I'm not sure they're much important compared to what I already put here.

Korean meaning
The plum blossom is a symbol for spring.

Japanese meaning
Plum blossoms are often mentioned in Japanese poetry as a symbol of spring.

I think someone said something like this before, but maybe she really did choose this flower in part because she was going through a rough time in her life that she sees as a bad winter, the death of her parents and the end of her relationship with Seju, and decided that this flower was a good way to hide the scar and mark a spring in her life, a new beginning? Though we know spring never really came...

But I think that that some of the other meanings also fits both Seju and Sumin too, or fits how the story itself is, like perseverance and hope, but also beauty, purity, and the transitoriness of life and revolutionary struggle.

Now I wonder if the "Three Friends of Winter" fit with Seju, Sumin and Sungji:

Culturally, the Three Friends of Winter—pine, bamboo, and plum—are grouped together in the context of winter because they all flourish at that season. For this reason they are commonly known as the Three Friends of Winter.

In a Korean poem by Kim Yuki (1580-1658), the three friends are brought together in order to underline the paradoxical contrast:

Peach and plum of springtime, don't flaunt your pretty blossoms;
Consider rather the old pine and green bamboo at year's end.
What can change these noble stems and their flourishing evergreen?

Since Sumin has plum tattoo, maybe Seju and Sungji represent pine and bamboo? Which one represent what is another question.

"Four Gentlemen" is also know as "Four Noble Ones" and they represent the plum blossom, the orchid, the chrysanthemum, and the bambo, The Four Gentlemen have been used in Chinese painting since the time of the Chinese Song dynasty (960–1279) because of their refined beauty, and were later adopted elsewhere in East Asia by artists in Korea, Japan, and Vietnam. As they represent the four different seasons (the plum blossom for winter, the orchid for spring, the chrysanthemum for autumn, and the bamboo for summer), the four are used to depict the unfolding of the seasons through the year.

Maybe this meaning can also be used if we put Nami in the mix? Same for the "Flowers of the Four Seasons", which consist of the orchid (spring), the lotus (summer), the chrysanthemum (autumn) and the plum blossom (winter).

This site also talks about the chinese meaning, but it's kind of big so I won't read it...

Martian posted:

"It's never too late to make amend" and there are also other meanings like infidelity, unfaithfulness etc

This is also a pretty good simbology for the story main plot as a whole since it is about Seju and Sumin healing from their broken relationship.

Rather than it symbolizing Sumin and Sungji together, I think it fits a lot more how Seju and Sumin are stuck at "winter" since it's when the flower blooms.

Well, that was pretty big, what I posted is all from wikipedia, didn't find much in other sites, it's kind of late here, over 03 am already, so I'm not thinking properly to search more and what it means in flower language, hope no part of my post ended up broken compared to the rest, so if anything doesn't make much sense please says that I'll fix it, what I said is what I could think of the meaning for now, kind of have limited brain capacity to think better about them because of the lack of sleep.

last edited at Mar 20, 2016 2:34AM

I don't think the meaning is because of Sumin and Sungji relationship, they didn't even know each other yet, I'm making a big post about some of their meanings, let's see if the thead stops for a few minutes so I can finish it.

You're welcome 9toenails o7

last edited at Mar 20, 2016 1:56AM

Do people ask in english or you know korean? Does it have a lot of questions? Cause now I'm wondering how much useful information we could find there, there's probably something we don't know yet, maybe we should just go ahead and ask about the flower meaning?

Well, if Sumin did tell Sungji so we just need to have a look in all chapters with them together, I assume she might have said the name of the flower in the beginning of their relationship.

last edited at Mar 20, 2016 1:14AM

9toenails

I don't think the problem is that Seju was being blamed for Sumin parents death, it is irrational and wrong but kind of understandable, I think the problem is that both of them did pretty bad choices at that time, Sumin was closing herself to others and Seju didn't try to help her in a good manner, cheating aside as far as we know they would break up anyway, the difference is that they would probably get back together again after some time, I see what happened as a fatality, when things are bad people tend to do stupid things when they get drunk, so I think we could see this as a tragic sequence of mistakes that ended their relationship in a bad way, but I think they're both to blame for the 10 years after that, they pretty much didn't really try to move foward or try to seriously talk about what happened.

Also, you're not using bold in other usernames, this thread might interest you.

queerturtle

You're welcome, just don't forget to share the artist name, and if you're my friend go contact me somewhere else or I won't believe it. (>_<)

It's interesting how even though Dynasty is probably the biggest reader of yuri, we pretty much don't have really biased users, I woud imagine a yuri site like this would be full of those bad yuri fans that just annoy everyone, but discussions are very good and useful.

GraciousLlama

You mean someone in the thread explained the flower? It would be pretty difficult to find it now...

I also think you all should have a look at this userscript as it's pretty useful.

last edited at Mar 20, 2016 1:02AM

Guess they didn't put WDTFS link on /u/, could you put it on the list EvilDevil? http://www.lezhin.com/comic/wdfs

last edited at Mar 20, 2016 12:10AM

I think the reason there's not much Seju hate here anymore but in other places it continue, is that just like with FF it's because here is where the real discussion about them really happens, at least I don't think any other place discuss as much as Dynasty users when it comes to yuri, probably in part because yuri fans tend to use mainly this site, so others don't really have very good discussions about yuri in general, as for overral hate, someone even called me strawman because of this, but in the end the only reason Seju gets all this hate really is because of the cheating, because the rest don't really hate her, they just don't care about her and want more Sumin x Sungji.

And I agree that you shouldn't hold yourself Azai, if you have anything to say then just say, there's nothing wrong with crazy.

Continuing on the tattoo, did they ever say in the story what flower it is? Cause we can easily find various sites about language of flowers, flower symbology, or just symbology in general that would help, it being a flower could be symbolic already.

queerturtle, here the Rosalina tag, and yeah her name is Rosetta in the original, this is a general Rosetta tag, you're going to see other characters named Rosetta too, there's probably another tag to separate them, I can try find it too if you want, but when there's more than one the images tend to have all versions of the tag, so I don't think you're going to really miss anything, now the problem will be if they're not on Pixiv, finding on Twitter is pretty much imposible, you probably could try Deviantart and Tumblr, but you would lose a lot of time, but if you find the artist please do say, in case you take some time to find and don't want to mention it in a post you can contact me in other places like Batoto or MAL, I always use same name or a variation of it, like T-sama, so it's easy to find me since I'm in a lot of places, in some I should have used different names too, not always good to be so easy to let people find in what kind of sites you have account... (>_>)

last edited at Mar 19, 2016 11:35PM

If something really is symbolic in the tattoo then it's not the color yellow, but the kind of flower that she chose, I doubt they represent Sungji in anyway, I actually see that more like representing how she ignores her problems with Seju, just like she covers the scars with that flowers, she decides to cover her wounds and problems related to Seju with hate and revenge by sleeping with countless woman and telling her everything.

But really, without knowing what flower is that and seeing what it means in flower language, then we can't really discuss it's meaning besides more or less what I said, someone can think of another symbolism besides of the one I said? I think it representing Sungji a little forced...

queerturtle, it's because of how you explained that I think they will never make clear why the cheating happened, giving one or two reasons would be a weak explanation, it makes way more sense being a little of everything like you said, and I made search and didn't find the image yet, I could probably find on Pixiv since it has good chances it's japanese, but it would have countless of images in the way that I would want to save, so I'll probably not do that, but if you want to look on pixiv I can give you Rosalina tag, you're going to have a lot of images to save too, you want?

Faylicia, the problem is that even if you find Sumin x Sungji more interesting, that's not what the story is about, so it just don't make sense not showing Seju, I agree what you said about POV, I suspect that soon after Sumin get better we might start seeing Seju POV, kind of like happened with FF.

GraciousLlama, go read the thread since the beginning, before we saw that Sumin is kind of jerk and how she treated Seju bad for 10 years, there was a group that would always call Seju evil and manipulative every time a new chapter came and people discussed about her, but as soon as Team Gaji showed Sumin true colors they all became quiet, god how I loved when that happened~~

I assume no one asked why she slept with that guy?

Yeah, Seju and Sumin are walking drama, so Sungji end up looking boring, but I don't think she is, they just need to give more depth to her.

Why Sumin x Sungji fans says that? Cause they're biased because of Seju cheating, so they already hate her, now that the story is focusing on Sumin x Sungji they want only that, because of this focus they also seen to forget that Seju and Sumin are the real main characters, Sungji is also one but she came later, kind of how some people forgot that Kuroko is a sociopath serial killer on Murcielago, we need to go back to Seju POV so people will remember that this is story is not about Sumin x Sungji romance, but about Seju and Sumin healing.

Good thing Team Gaji changed the story, a ero FF would be nice, but this is more interesting, it's like that saying that all happy families are the same, but the sad families are sad and happy in their own way.

Thanks queerturtle, I didn't recognize but I do like Rosalina, I might be able to find the source, you want to know it?

last edited at Mar 19, 2016 7:49PM

Maybe the cheating will never be fully explained cause it's hard to give a good explanation? It's kind of easier to leave to each person interpretation, and as it was 10 years ago it doesn't really matter that much anymore, only the consequences it had.

I don't think Seju blames herself for Sumin parents death, but maybe she does, did they ever say it? I don't remember, but even if she did I don't think she would sleep with that guy for that, maybe in part she's waiting for Sumin after all those years because she do feels guilty for her parents? After all Sumin already promised to be her family, so by feeling guilty it would make even more sense why after 10 years she still wants to be on Sumin life.

As for the ending, the logical ending seens to be Sumin x Sungji being Seju family, but I don't really care how the ending is as long as it's good.

Though I'm on Team Pink and Black (threesome ending), I don't really have anything against Sungji, sure she needs to be more fleshed out, but my love for Seju don't affect how I see her, I actually like everyone, the story might have it's problem but I sympathize with everyone, I choose Seju side in part because how her haters are annoying and only focus on the cheating, and because I feel it'll be easier for Sumin to be healed, she seens to be the strong one of the three protagonists, the way Seju is so passive and had to probably endure for all her life her shitty family treating her in such horrible ways makes me think she's the one who really need people on her side.

queerturtle, where is your avatar from? you have link for the original image or name of the artist?