Actually as you can see in chapter 2 p.15 and p.16, there was already a scar on Kanoko's shoulder, so I think the author crafted the story with that in mind since beginning.
And thank you, your analysis captured my thoughts perfectly!

I apologize, it seems after going through the chapters so many times I may have confused the order of things. There are several panels in chapter 2 where the scar should be visible, but isn't and thus I made the mistake of stamping it off as absent entirely, but you are completely correct, the scar appears twice in that chapter. Incredibly visible at one point even which was the first time I took note of it on my first read, now that I think about it.

This does reflect poorly on my observational skills and I will take care to be absolutely certain next time before posting. We will see how accurate the rest of my assessment was when the next chapters release I suppose. I'm glad that other people had similar impressions, though.

(EDIT: I deleted the part regarding the scar's absence in chapter 2, because I was mistaken)

Regardless, by now there is a certain narrative through-line that could give us an idea how she got the scar and what caused her to change. Kanoko shows an immense aversion to PDA (public displays of affection) and often clutches her shoulder at those times when she frets. While obvious, it establishes the link between the two changes, physical and emotional. Additionally we now learned that she has inhibitions with telling "loved ones" that she is gay or in a relationship with a woman. Furthermore there have been two small flashback panels to a woman with black hair holding a baby that came up when she had one of those panic attacks.

As established this scar was something she received when she was 20 and came with whatever caused her to change so drastically that it led to the break up with Shiori. 20 being the time that she was finally considered an adult (drinking age etc.) and also the point where she would have to seriously look into her future (she wanted children with Shiori, but obviously that's very hard to achieve). Neither Shiori nor Aki knew about the scar at all, which means neither of them was involved or knew someone that could have given it to her. The only clue we have is the woman in the flashback... which looks an awful lot like Kanoko's sister Mika. The question is whether it was actually Mika or their mother. But as their mother has never come up and Mika seemed to be taking care of Kanoko, it points strongly towards the latter.
Now I am not saying Mika actually hurt her sister directly, but they clearly had an argument and that caused this injury somehow. It could be that Kanoko hurt herself while running away or got into an accident. The point is that she connects the two events in her trauma. And during Chapter 0 she actually still seemed to be her old self, flirty and happy to be with Shiori, which means this was not just a one-off event that broke her. The line that stuck out (during which she clutched her shoulder) was the main theme of the story: "We are not adults, but we are also not children".

My conclusion is that Kanoko was shunned or chastised for being in a relationship with a woman, because whoever confronted her thought it was "childish" and that she should grow up and make a "real" family. The symbolism of the baby in the woman's arms and the aversion to showing her homosexuality in front of others support this interpretation. In high-school where Kanoko could be honest and affectionate the narration labels them as childen, during college they are neither adults nor children and that's where they break up. Then as adults they get back together the moment they start working. In their adulthood Shiori is secure with her feelings she was denying as a "child", while Kanoko can't be honest with herself. That's why she admitted that Shiori had become a proper adult, because she chose to have this relationship and be open about it, despite what other people think. Kanoko is changing slowly and comes to understand that her sexuality is not just a childish fantasy that goes against becoming an adult.

At least that's my reading of the story so far.

last edited at Oct 22, 2021 1:46AM

Greetings,
my problem is connected to one of my posts being labeled as spam in the Tsuki to Koi wa Michireba Kakeru discussion thread. I may not be aware of some filtered words that are not allowed on this site or perhaps excessive repetition of the same words is considered an offense? I assure you that I was not trying to spam, I was only sharing my analyses of the manga. I may have been too wordy which caused the repetition, though.

EDIT: I rephrased it a bit and tried again and now it works. Apologies if I wasted anyone's time. I cannot even say which change caused it to work, so I have no advice for others in the same boat. Sorry.

last edited at Oct 10, 2021 4:04AM

With this series comparisons to its more comedic older sibling seem nearly inevitable. I was quite fond of that manga, even if it was rather directionless. This rewrite has actually far better pacing and momentum behind it. After all, in the same amount of chapters we have reached 3 actually established relationships with proper development and execution as well as one that is currently pending to be resolved. In that sense the mystery around the death of Nekozakl's father both creates a real endgame as well as a stark differentiation to the first iteration which allows the resolution to change just enough that it won't feel repetitive.

That being said, I have strong doubts that Nekozaki and Mikoto can reach the same rapport and emotional resolution that the final chapters in Todo no Tsumari no Uchouten did (even though we were given the promised kiss much earlier), exactly because of this more outward force causing the conflict. The fireworks chapter is still ingrained in my memory as an emotional high point. What sweet agony to have two alternate versions to the same relationship.

Side-note: I appreciate how the relationship between Tsubaki and Fujishiro is a fair give and take. So often there is a power imbalance when it comes to age gap couples, especially a teacher and a student. But Tsubaki's maturity has completely prevented any drama that could have been born from the current plot and supposed "betrayal". It's very contrary to most melodramatic takes of love across the series. If it is not too much to ask I would love for Arata Iri to delve a little deeper into their romance.

last edited at Oct 5, 2021 1:25PM

Well, yes, I am aware that yuri started with Class S stories, which would fall in the shoujo category; I just get the feeling that yuri nowadays isn't really targeted to straight girls.

From what I've read the yuri readership in more recent years seems to be about 60-40 regarding female to male audiences and not a small number are actually queer women. Which would mean that the target demographic isn't really "straight girls". Of course, I'm not that well-informed, really, that's what I've found through a very leisurely research (if I could even call it that) and how I've felt from my own experience, so I might be totally off base.

Has it really already come to a 60-40 split? Are you sure that isn't just the percentage for a specific magazine (I think we all know which one)? I know that the numbers were quite a bit more skewed 10 years ago at least... I suppose Shounen Yuri really has taken off.

Regardless, straight girls were the target demographic, which only gives you an idea of who the publishers market to ultimately. The biggest paying audience for Yuri were straight girls and therefore became the main demographic by default. I already mentioned that I was aware of the shifting market, but didn't want to go into it because it is not that relevant to the topic overall.

I find very hard to believe straight women would be the main audience of Yuri romance, which includes lewd scenes too.
Yuri is not a popular genre to begin with, with half of the audience being males, so I don't think the numbers don't add up. Btw it's not just the lesbians who are wlw.

Please keep in mind that we are talking about Japan, not the entire world.

In recent years there have been stronger appeals towards the LGBT crowd on both sides of the spectrum no doubt. Subject matters that would never have been addressed 20 years ago are now common. This shows an evolution of course that goes alongside the shifting audience.

To be honest from what I learned about, Yuri was actually seen skeptically or even frowned upon by a lot of actual lesbians back in the day, exactly because it was not very representative. And don't get me started on the porn. It's either almost non-existent to not offend the straight girl demographic or it is drawn by men (in doujins usually) who know even less about it than straight women. So "lewd scenes" were an exception if not frowned upon for the longest time. That's why Yuri used to be automatically associated with "purity". To the point where a lot of Yuri artists and fans would scoff at the idea of sexualization (which perhaps somewhat unfairly is often associated with Shounen Yuri).

Either way, I am not making it up. Girls have always been more open-minded about romance and straight women are quite a force on the market. Just consider please that 2.5% of the population of which the majority will not engage with the genre, can't actually be the main clientele. Yuri is niche, but not THAT niche.
This 50-50 split you talk about between girls and boys reading it is 100% false at least.

Actually I think there is a trope of girls that are zealots for same-sex relationships and basically support anything other than heterosexual pairings. The two genres can exist in a peaceful parallel after all.

Those people do actually exist in real life.

Certainly. like with most tropes there is always a real world origin. Like I said, it's not too farfetched as those two ideals do not cross over. Rather they complement each other. If all men are busy amongst themselves, women will be able to safely focus on other women and vice versa. Hence why I brought up that it is not unheard of for fujoshis to read both BL and GL.

Probably also because there seems to be distinction between homosexual romance written for women (yaoi) and written for men (bara). I'm not really too familiar with either to be honest, but just looking at art style alone there appears to be a major difference. Though I have seen fujos interested in a hentai called Legend of the Blue Wolves because due to being aimed for a male audience it does a lot of things you'd never see in your average yaoi.

You bring up a good point that I did not consider at all. Ultimately the twisted fetishized version of homosexual romance between men that fujoshis crave is probably not very compatible with the works that actual gay men enjoy. I was not quite familiar with the fact that Bara is a term for BL that appeals to men, I only saw occasional art of it which made me think it is focused on bulky men, not unlike the "bears" of real gay communities. This is good to know.

I have in fact heard some fujoshis talk about how they like Bara before, but they did treat it almost like a different genre from BL. Now it makes more sense.

It is common knowledge that in Japan the target audience of yuri is actually straight girls

???
Did you mean yaoi, perhaps...?

Not at all. The target demographic of GL is in truth straight girls. Yuri was an offshoot of Shoujo manga first and foremost and it has historically always had an overwhelming female audience (and obviously the heterosexual kind, as those sales numbers wouldnt work out if it was only for actual lesbians). Straight girls hold up both the GL and BL industry simultaneously basically. Only with a strong preference for one side...

Perhaps you are aware of the more recent development of "Shounen Yuri" which is aimed at boys. No doubt yuri is getting more popular with the male audience too, but the percentage is not comparable at all.

I wouldn't worry about that, I bet you can't name more than 5 titles with that, I can only think of 3 right now and one of them is just 5 % of the main series ( otome no teikoku).

I can think of quite a few more, though many not translated of course. Then again, I may well draw broader strokes as I suggested by bringing up OshiRabu and the like where an obssession with men in Otaku culture is still a major factor in a yuri work. If we added those up it would grow more sizable.

Just to clarify, I do not "worry" about this. Much like many other works that do not appeal to me I have no trouble ignoring them. It was just that I find this trend odd and wanted to get these thoughts off my chest. If there are positives to this sub-genre that would also be great.

It sounds in large part that you just don’t have much interest in BL; I don’t blame you—I don’t have much interest in that genre either.

But female BL shippers are a staple of many kinds of manga (especially SOL/workplace manga)

I cannot really deny it, but that's why I am trying to be transparent.
As for the BL shipper archetype, yes I am aware. Even in Yuri they have been a common trope for decades. And in many ways I see them as the prototype of this kind of yuri we are talking about, because occasionally a fujoshi will also be paired up with a girl in those stories.

Actually I think there is a trope of girls that are zealots for same-sex relationships and basically support anything other than heterosexual pairings. The two genres can exist in a peaceful parallel after all.

last edited at Sep 18, 2021 11:50AM

Hi, this may be a strange topic for a first post, but I finally felt like I had something that I couldn't really discuss anywhere else, Forgive me if this was already talked about somewhere before, I didn't see anything for the last few pages at least.

So maybe I should first explain what I mean by the so-called "Fujoshi Yuri". I don't especially mean yuri drawn by fujoshis (although that may often be the case actually), but rather yuri works that focus on two or more fujoshis becoming couples. For the last couple of years I've seen an increase in this very specific theme in yuri manga and it feels like it has almost become a sub-genre at this point. I can't really discern its actual popularity in Japan, but at least in Western circles it seems to have a mixed reception.

Now I want to preface this by saying that I am not interested in BL. I only read the occasional fluff that gets recommended to me, but the genre itself has no appeal to me. Therefore I am incredibly biased and not ashamed to admit it. When I read a yuri manga, seeing ten pages of the supposed heroines talking about their fictional BL OTPs just doesnt do anything for me and actually makes me skip entire pages sometimes (something I never do in any other work of fiction). So yes, I may just not be happy with this sub-genre and it may not be made for me, but I also want to talk about it more objectively.

I wonder more about how it came about and what its purpose really is.
This is just speculation of course, but here is how I see it. It is common knowledge that in Japan the target audience of yuri is actually straight girls (though there are some changes in that too lately, just not relevant enough to change that observation). It is also not uncommon that Fujoshis read both BL and GL, though with an obviously heavy lean towards the former. Also there is a perception that all female otaku, regardless of sexuality, must be somewhat interested in BL in Japan. In that light it seems to me like these stories could have two main reasons to exist:
1. To lure fujoshis into reading more yuri by using something relatable (obssession with BL) as bait.
2. For fujoshis to write a self-insertish romance that allows them to feel content with their situation.

So the obvious thing is that fujoshis will hardly be able to write heterosexual romance with the same theme. Just imagine a het man obssessed with BL... not likely. It may be possible to do with a bisexual male lead, but that probably feels too far-fetched for fujos (especially because many of them are in the hardcore "men are only for men" camp). This obssession is a clear barrier that insulates them and the only people who can truly relate are other fujoshis. So their most meaningful relationships that seem the most fulfilling will often be with other women. And that sorta relfects in this sub-genre too.

My main issue with this is that the yuri part of the stories often feels tacked on. Like the author realizes by the end of the one-shot or every few chapters "Oh right, this was supposed to be yuri, guess I will add a scene for that". The ratio of Yuri scenes to BL talk is very disproportionate. And I am fully aware that this is not an unusual case. You could argue the same for the "Sports Yuri" genre, where the sport can often eclipse the romantic progress a lot. But I suppose the main difference here is that having BL as a focus automatically puts the genres in opposition. To see a girl rave about her fictional BL OTP, drooling and blushing and exploding about sexualizing men, but when faced with their actual female lover/love interest they are so much more subdued or even seem less interested, it makes it clear that there is a huge imbalance. It seems nearly disingenuous.

I've seen a different variety of this in Visual Novels like OshiRabu where it's yuri with a husbando obssessed otaku, but the same issue permeates both. I suppose I was more accepting of it in that scenario, because Akuru was portrayed as a closeted bisexual/lesbian who drowns out her lacking emotional fulfillment with 2D boys and never actually confronted her sexuality due to it. Meanwhile in fujoshi yuri generally the love interests are either very quick to hook up or simply dont question their sexuality at all and just brush over it. Mostly because there is no time to delicately build a yuri romance, as they have to cram in so much BL talk that the only way to make sure that it is recognized as yuri is to actually skip the "foreplay" if you will.

I would like to hear people's thoughts on this topic. Is it a good way to sway some fujoshis to the yuri genre, like an introduction perhaps? Do these authors need to learn how to focus more on the actual romance of their leads? Is there another factor I am just not seeing here?