Bumping this for a response from mods.

I am writing with the request to have my account deleted. I wish to no longer participate in discussions which all to often become hostile. There are also many things that I disagree with about the site as a whole. If deletion of my account could be done, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank You

If the conversation is going to continue (as it has every right to do), could one or both of you give a one-or-two sentence clarification of what the basic issue in dispute is, and what the consequences of it are for our understanding of the work as a whole?

Because I’m not seeing such a huge difference in the positions to account for the length and vigor of the dispute (probably because I’m not reading carefully enough, and therefore could use some help).

Ahem... as the conversation officially doesn't exist anymore apparently... now it may be pointless, but here is how I saw this ex-discussion.

My point was that Touko made the choice to become Mio on her own and while her surroundings influenced her views, the blame for the outcome lies with her. She was inflicitng self-harm by the way she acts out of grief and a need to overcome her weak self.
It's all pro responsibility and choice for me.

It's just honestly better this way. Instead of having walls of text with misunderstandings going back and forth, and creating whatever potential further confusion for anyone that reads them, a different approach can be made. I also could not see the "discussion" as such with unprovoked insults and wrongful accusations thrown at me when there was a disagreement. The part about the quotes was my misunderstanding, so that I apologize for that and only that.

I agree that Touko made a choice, but argue that the choice made was influenced by her experiences. And I do not accept that Touko is to be blamed for the entire outcome. I am also pro responsibility and choice, but choice isn't easy and our choices are often influenced by our experiences. That's all for the time being.

last edited at May 4, 2019 9:43AM

Well, her reactions when Touko finally visits show that she did not really expect it to be true...

Right, which is why I say at least not entirely. She's surprised, but not taken aback.

Well, yes, it is obviously about Touko, but nothing suggests it's specifically about her sexuality or whom she's dating, but rather talking about all the things they've kept to themselves, both Touko and her parents. While the play is what prompts this change, the words used by her parents ("We've said too little for too long...") show that it's not a talk about some sudden realizations based on her character's orientation, but rather about things left unsaid during the past years.

I do not say it would be specifically about her sexuality only that I'd be surprised if the subject wasn't brought up. I meant that the discussion would be influenced by content of the play in context to Touko. I agree that it would be an open discussion. I mean, how much talk is needed to make up for talking too little? My surprise doesn't mean much compared to what the character's would feel needed to be covered for a successful conversation. That said, sudden openness can open doors of unexpected discussion. Even so, I can not say in entirety what Touko wants to share and learn and of what her parent's want to share and learn.

It doesn't even have to be brought up directly. Simply wishing for someone to be themselves and happy as they are, and offering to accept them for who they are, goes a long way. Well, when I came out my sister said she didn't believe me and years later I still have to remind my mom... so...

last edited at May 3, 2019 5:47AM

Touko's parents couldn't stop her from hurting herself, so they can't stop her from dating a girl, but they appear to just want her to become herself again, so that's why I don't think they will mind the method much.

I'm not sure what you mean by "hurting herself" when it comes to Touko. Her family, or at least people at her sister's funeral, shamed her into believing that to be worth anything she had to be like her sister. It's a result of people not being able to accept death, especially when someone dies young, so they project the deceased onto someone living, and then expect the living to live on as the deceased. This is what hurt Touko not a case of self harming.

Well, Rei does think their mom might oppose it, but looking at the other times this has come up even jokingly, so far only Yuu's father has said anything at all about her possibly having a girlfriend, and even that was basically just admitting he wouldn't know what to do, while the rest of the family doesn't either seem to care either way or, in case of her sister, is clearly supportive.

I don't put much into what people say facetiously, that said her father was being honest and I don't think Rei was joking, at least not entirely.

You mean this? Seems more likely to be about her efforts to be like Mio than anything else.

The play was about moving beyond projected images and expectations of others as Touko's character finds the strength to live on as herself. The relationship with Sayaka's character continues as Sayaka promises to continue loving Touko even though she's "changed". The complete opposite of trying to emulate someone else. Her father did think that Touko was doing the play just for Mio's sake, but this was not entirely true. Yuu points out that no matter the expectations of others, she only knows Touko, and the play was something Touko also wanted to do for herself.

I think Touko wanted to do the play because she felt it would bring her closer to understanding her sister. And through the play, she learned she herself likes acting. I call that a positive. I would assume their discussion to be about Touko, not her sister, again.

last edited at May 3, 2019 5:05AM

Maybe Maki was watching them from the shadows during the confession, Touko noticed and she's like "...!" but doesn't want to ruin the moment so she closed the curtains, at one point you see her checking back to make sure he can't see.

Okay, that would be really creepy. How did he know? Why is he there at night by himself?

Touko's parents will just be happy that she isn't trying to be Mio anymore and finally moved on. If a girlfriend helped her to stop hurting herself, then so be it.

I think Touko's parents may already know, but not about Yuu of course. We didn't get to see it, but at the end of the play Touko's mother mentions to Touko's father about having a "family talk". And the play itself wasn't exactly subtle. Of course Koyomi wrote the script, but the script was uncanny with how accurate it was to Touko's character, and Touko's parents seemed to take the play as Touko's own words, prompting the need for a talk later. I'd be surprised if the topic wasn't brought up.

I also agree that Yuu's mother will likely take the news hard, she may even reject Yuu and Touko at first. That said, if the story actually addresses familial/societal responses to homosexuality, in a well conducted way and to such an extent, I'll be surprised. With the other characters needing a conclusion, especially Sayaka, and there being one final volume, I wonder if there will be room?

last edited at May 2, 2019 6:37PM

Tyson-chan... This really did feel predatory.

Disappointing...

So... Nakatani-Sensei is going to pair the sweet and romantic Akari with the typical, annoying pervert that is Doujima? Well, 'Bloom into You' is technically a Shōnen, so not so much surprising as it is incredibly disappointing. Sigh... So long as Touko and Yuu have a good ending and Sayaka is left hopeful for the future I'll be happy. I'd love a spin-off for Sayaka and more adult-life scenes between Riko and Miyako though.

I disagree Doujima is classic slightly idiotic school boy, but however as do all the characters are deeper than they first seem. The scene outside the gym being the prime example. Perhaps it will work out perhaps it won't.

Yes, the classic idiotic, pervert school boy that is the archetype of the vast majority of Shōnen male protagonists. The type is toned down in this series though. I'm not certain what deeper moment you refer to. I looked back through the series and it seems Doujima showed an "interest" in Akari early on. And at that time Akari shows a clear aversion to Doujima along with him exposing his motivation to surround himself with girls.
Early in the series, Doujima asks Maki in an insinuating manner which of the girls are their respective types during a StuCo meeting -- this was asking Maki to judge each girl's "qualities" right in front of them as if that's why they're there for. This can be hurtful and demeaning, and Maki brushed Doujima's question off. There's nothing inherently wrong in discussing types of course, but there is timing, motivation, and context. Imagine giving a presentation at work and you hear someone judging your attractiveness and expressing their own personal interest in you.
There was also the moment where the group was discussing who should play Touko's romantic partner in the play. When Sayaka was recommended, Doujima questioned the orientation yet then agreed with the decision only because a lesbian relationship would bring more attention. Yuu says "You're right" to Doujima but to me her expression in that moment showed her comment was not of approval. His comment also questions Koyomi's motivations as a writer for writing a lesbian couple.
I've never liked it and am sick of seeing this dynamic play out where female characters are compromised to fit into a relationship type that is disturbingly all too common itself. I can only hope the Nakatani-Sensei will do things differently if she's stuck on putting these two together.

last edited at Mar 1, 2019 3:17PM

So... Nakatani-Sensei is going to pair the sweet and romantic Akari with the typical, annoying pervert that is Doujima? Well, 'Bloom into You' is technically a Shōnen, so not so much surprising as it is incredibly disappointing. Sigh... So long as Touko and Yuu have a good ending and Sayaka is left hopeful for the future I'll be happy. I'd love a spin-off for Sayaka and more adult-life scenes between Riko and Miyako though.

last edited at Mar 1, 2019 1:32PM

Touko and Sayaka are already aware they are lesbians and I think Yuu is bisexual and otherwise didn't have much difficulty with Touko being a girl too. The play ended basically with Touko coming out to her parents who said at the end "we have things to talk about" in an understanding way. The play was written by another character but the accuracy in describing Touko was spot on. Discovering sexuality is a theme to Bloom into You, and while there are certainly differences, the focus is facing the challenges of and acceptance of love itself which has no orientation. People have orientations, love doesn't.

I don't really think Touko is a lesbian or Yuu is bisexual. Sayaka for sure is a lesbian and she herself has stated this. But Touko and Yuu are pretty much the same, both fell in love with each other for other reasons than mainly "because she is a girl and I like girls" (unlike Sayaka). Nakatani even said that one of the reasons boys exist in yagakimi is to show girls who fall in love with other girls because they like girls (Sayaka and Miyako) and girls whose love interest simply happened to be a girl (Touko & Yuu). Boys are present yet the leads choose other girls and don't show attraction to guys (Yuu may have wanted to, but failed to). Touko didn't fall in love with Yuu at first sight or showed that kind of interest before Yuu said the magic words "I can't fall in love with anyone" and she hasn't shown attraction to other women either. Yuu fell in love with Touko after all the time they spent knowing each other.
It's easier to label the other characters in this manga (Sayaka and Miyako are lesbians, Maki is asexual aro, Koyomi, Akari and Doujima are straight, Riko is bi) but I don't see the point on labelling the main characters. If people really insist on labelling them, I would say pansexual, but still, I'd much rather just say that they fell in love for who the other is, and their gender was irrelevant in that process (which doesn't mean they aren't sexually attracted to each other, because they clearly are, but that's a part that came with love). Could they have fallen for each other had the other (or both) been male instead? Probably. Just like Riko wasn't into girls but chose Miyako because she fell in love with the person she is.

I don't feel a need to label their orientations, just noting them as I felt the story presented them. I thought the play included something about orientation but going back to read it again that's not the case. So yes, nothing indicates what orientation Touko has other than her obvious sexual attraction to Yuu. But at the same time nothing indicates she has any other sexual interest. Again, only going off the story not giving labels out of some need to.

I was quoted out of context as my argument was that while the characters have their orientations, whatever they may be;

the focus is facing the challenges of and acceptance of love itself which has no orientation. People have orientations, love doesn't.

---

gender was irrelevant in that process

The story never tried to show Miyako and Riko as anything but cisgendered women: where gender and sex match without conflict. So the gender vs. sex argument doesn't apply. Miyako avoids Riko because she likes her but worries Riko won't return those feelings because she is a woman. When Riko wants to try dating Miyako, Miyako again makes it clear she's a woman and Riko would be dating a woman to which Riko replies she isn't sure but wants to try and believes that she can.

Much later, seemingly still a bit uncertain, Miyako asks Riko what her preference is, man or woman? Riko replies "It's not like I'm all that into women" which obliterates Miyako's soul. To clarify Riko says "I'm normally not that interested in women, but I'm dating you now, Miyako. So you're like an exception, or a special case, or..."

In response Miyako tries to coax out of her what she means, not because she's uncertain what Riko means but because it's nice to hear that the person you're sexually involved with is sexually attracted to you. In Miyako's case it's wanting to hear that Riko is sexually attracted to her, at least in part because she's a woman. Riko couldn't only come this far in their relationship because part of her, as she was too embarrassed to admit directly, is attracted to women. Gender was never irrelevant to either of them. To Miyako and Riko, being women is part of who they are.

It is possible that Riko would say "I love you because you're you". But Miyako made it clear to Riko that an important part to her, and their relationship, is that she's a woman. Miyako could be a one-off for Riko, that does happen, but gender definitely is a factor in their relationship working.

And in general, regardless of orientation, sexual compatibility is real. Love, romantic love, does not automatically turn into sexual compatibility just because one loves someone for who they are. I'm not meaning Asexual, but people can romantically love someone and have no sexual interest or lose sexual interest which actually ends some relationships where love remains.

So, there's actually a lot I want reply to in your post but this is long already so I may make it a two part reply. However, the main point I wanted to make was that while orientation is addressed in the story, love itself is the main focus on the story.

OK, Nyah-chan has thrown down the “you’re reading too much into it—the author didn’t intend that” gauntlet, so:

Yes, Nyah-chan's comment made me remember what my Great Grandfather once said in regard to the Grand Canyon, "It's just a big hole in the ground, who cares?" Eyes roll all the way back to Bohemia.

last edited at Feb 5, 2019 5:21AM

I find what riverFlower posted to be a wonderful interpretation of the chapter, and since the beginning Nakatani Nio has not been shy about using a great depth of symbolism. It may be a bit outside the story but that can be fine. Stories are as much what we learn from them as we can connect to outside of a story.

Autumn, in cultures new and old, and from around the world, has been used as a time and setting to be thankful of what we have while accepting of what we don't have. It's a time of harvest and bounty but also a time of preparing for going on without when winter arrives. Modern society is losing touch with emotions brought by the seasons and of living by the seasons themselves. It's not stretch that Nakatani would be familiar with this, especially concerning her wide use of natural symbolism in the story.

Yeah... I still don't like Touko. Let them all figure out they're gay and date other people outside of this triangle. I don't want Touko and Yuu to end up together because of how unhealthy their relationship is but that's my opinion.

Unhealthy despite helping both of them progress in a positive direction? Certainly Touko took advantage of Yuu's perceived inability to love but Yuu herself is aware of this. Not only does she reassure Touko that she can continue to love her, but Yuu admits to herself that she wants Touko to keep loving her so that Yuu herself can learn about love. And the main theme to Yuu's struggle is accepting that love isn't perfect and comes in different forms.

Touko not only lost her sister of who she was fully dependent on, but her family shamed her into living for her sister, basically telling Touko "you're no good unless you're like your sister, so live for her". Touko's family shoved their inability to accept death onto her, to make her a replacement. How can anyone understand themselves and their own feelings after being subjected to such a thing at such a young age?

Bloom into You is a story of learning and of accepting. If Touko is bad then how about Sayaka early on relishing in her perceived control over Touko? Yuu and Sayaka are essentially mirrors of each other. Yuu wants Touko to "change" or rather to be herself while Sayaka had to learn to accept Touko as Touko and not of what she wanted Touko to be. Sayaka talking about love being a matter of trust in a fundamental self while knowing what changes to accept and which changes not to are all words from her own experience and process as a character. And this applies to where Sayaka had to accept Touko's changes to love her and the same for Touko to love Yuu in a "healthy" way. Touko has to accept change. To accept that Yuu is still Yuu, that Yuu has changed but not changed, that Yuu loving her is okay because Yuu is Yuu and no one else.

The most telling of the nature or healthiness of their relationship is when Yuu tells Touko that internal contradictions are okay, a revelation that stunned Touko. The other part is when Yuu tells Touko that even if she wants to accomplish what her sister couldn't, even if Touko wants to be different, even if she contradicts herself that's fine because at her core the person wanting to do those things is herself. And that the love people have for Touko isn't for her sister, it isn't for anyone nor anything else, but for that Touko who is fighting to find her own way.

Touko feels like she has to live for her sister, but the one that wants to perform the play and act, wants to find herself, that's all Touko, the Touko people rally behind and love. This is why Yuu said along the lines of "don't hate what I love, BAKA!" after Touko said she hates herself.

Touko and Sayaka are already aware they are lesbians and I think Yuu is bisexual and otherwise didn't have much difficulty with Touko being a girl too. The play ended basically with Touko coming out to her parents who said at the end "we have things to talk about" in an understanding way. The play was written by another character but the accuracy in describing Touko was spot on. Discovering sexuality is a theme to Bloom into You, and while there are certainly differences, the focus is facing the challenges of and acceptance of love itself which has no orientation. People have orientations, love doesn't.

As for the rest of the story, I don't think were through all the drama just yet. Yuu, I have a hard time believing she'd accept Touko's answer right away.

last edited at Feb 4, 2019 11:03PM

“Stop flirting with me while you have a boyfriend”
“She said something horrible to me so I’m hanging out with my boyfriend instead”
This girl is peak levels of stupid.

Ayu knows about the boyfriend, so considering that she was aggressive with the flirting, even making Youko promise to spend the night with her, it is rather rotten to then throw the boyfriend in Youko's face all of a sudden. Ayu's negative response isn't because Youko has a boyfriend, it's because the situation is no longer on Ayu's terms. She's being selfish.

The text doesn't say Youko's hanging out with her boyfriend as if she just switched gears with her feelings. Going home with her boyfriend was a disappointment. And he likely knew Youko went to the event so it isn't weird that she'd contact him when it was over or for him to possibly be in the area on his own. The person Youko wanted to go home with was Ayu.

---

So many negative comments and while I understand some of it, and I agree that Youko needs to sort things out and ditch the guy already (For her own feelings, Ayu's, and the boyfriend's. I do feel bad for him because he did seem like a decent guy) I see Youko as someone coming to accept her sexuality after struggling to do so.

When younger Youko was flirty with Yae she likely was not understanding of what she was doing nor how Yae responded to it. When confronted with the reality of her orientation, when Yae asked her out, she got scared, rejected Yae and went out with a boy (not an unrealistic response).

In this chapter Youko essentially admits that had she been honest with her feelings back when Yae asked her out she may have accepted. And explains that now she wants to be honest with herself and with Ayu. Yae DECIDES to support and then openly encourages Youko to do so. Not surprising that Youko, who has repeatedly been assured by Yae that things are fine between them, to then reach out to her main supporter. Yes, I think Youko out of consideration should rethink reaching out to Yae. However Yae created the environment for Youko to feel comfortable reaching out to her.

The arguments in some posts here are similar to "She wasn't accepting of her sexuality when Yae wanted her! Screw her! Damn her! BURN HER!" I see a character that struggled with her sexuality, made some mistakes, and needs support (even if that means someone has to point out a harsh reality to her, that's still support). And has more or less reconciled with Yae. I mean "She hurt Yea so she should stay in the closet for the rest of her life! How dare she accept her sexuality and fall in love!" is just shaming homosexuality itself. (These are paraphrases)

The amusement park chapter in the prequel established that Yae had lingering feelings for Youko and this chapter reestablishes that. If she told Chitose that her feelings from that time and for Youko still remained, Chitose would be none too happy for this to happen a second time.

Even so, and even though hurt, Yae decided to support Youko. Some will project their own experiences onto the characters but I don't think that's fair.

last edited at Feb 1, 2019 3:10PM

As much as I miss Mo Xionan she really dodged a bullet with SJ

SJ called QT a wimp for her having an emotional response to being assaulted by a voyeur. Now SJ sneaks up behind QT and grabs her while later insinuating she may do something to QT because QT is defenseless. This after telling QT that QT herself just doesn't understand things.

I've been patient with this but I'm done now. Good for SJ, she has her bragging rights now...

SJ and QT have had a teasing, bantering relationship from the beginning. It’s true that SJ loves pushing QT’s buttons, and it’s also obvious that QT doesn’t really mind. There are lots of relationships where one partner consistently mildly ruffles the other one’s feathers because they both enjoy having them smoothed down again.

And what anybody ever saw in the bland, colorless semi-stalker Mo Xionan I’ll never know.

I don't recall anything about Mo being a stalker and if anything it was SJ being facetiously kind to her that lead Mo to think that she had a chance with SJ. Otherwise what is colorless about someone that is caring of others, willing to stand against bullies at their own expense and not asking anything for it, and going out of their way to help another by returning their lost items? And Mo does all this even though she feels rotten about herself.

That said, if we use the term for someone being "colorful" as to mean offensive then I'm fine with Mo being "colorless" in this sense.

And that's fine between them, I take exception with SJ calling QT a wimp for crying and then the story carrying on as if for QT the voyeurism never happened. Of course it is good to promote the defending of those subject to assault and harassment, and it is true that assault victims do respond differently so I'm not looking for QT to respond any particular way here, but I don't like the portrayal that QT is just an unknowing and defenseless person for SJ to tease at her leisure.

last edited at Jan 23, 2019 10:21PM

As much as I miss Mo Xionan she really dodged a bullet with SJ

SJ called QT a wimp for her having an emotional response to being assaulted by a voyeur. Now SJ sneaks up behind QT and grabs her while later insinuating she may do something to QT because QT is defenseless. This after telling QT that QT herself just doesn't understand things.

I've been patient with this but I'm done now. Good for SJ, she has her bragging rights now...

last edited at Jan 23, 2019 8:07PM

@AntagonistChan - I think a set up where Yuu and Sayaka fall for each other while mutually deciding to support Touko together. I think an ending where Touko would want to focus on standing on her own would be workable. Still, and while I don't want to see Sayaka hurt, I like Yuu and Touko too.

last edited at Jan 21, 2019 5:56AM

I am more than okay with this

I'm sure something hard boiled is about to happen.

Good point actually it only sounds negative if you see two girls dating as a negative thing

No. Acknowledging that there is still prejudice against homosexuality and pointing that out does not make the one doing so also against homosexuality. Are there people that do so? Yes. But that can not be used as a blanket assumption. Context, personal responses, negative social conventions and etc. need to be taken into account.

The comments made by the background character's are negative, and pointing that out does not automatically make myself nor others that do against homosexuality. I'm accepting of and happy with my sexual orientation. But it can and does hurt to hear negative comments. Eri-chan and Momoko are not negatively impacted by the negative comments because they have a problem with being lesbian but because others do and are treating them poorly. And tragically some do develop feeling of and feelings similar to self-hate or negative self questioning because of the ways we can and are treated. And that's not our fault.

That was negative? All they did was say hey look it’s my first time seeing actual lesbians in public. It’s human nature to be curious about rare and unusual things. If they had said it was weird or gross it would one thing, but just acknowledging their existence isn’t particularly negative.

It is important to note the characters' reactions to what was said. Momoko became angry and stated that normally she'd confront people that make such comments. Eri-chan was nervous about holding hands and became scared, even was brought to tears, by the comments. Their responses show that the comments made were indeed negative.

Curiosity is one thing and not always negative, but mockery is another and is negative. The first background character asks "Are they holding hands?" while the second asks "Seriously? Are they lesbians?", and between the comments there is loud laughter as marked with an exclamation point. Either it was "Hahaha! Are they holding hands?", "Hahaha! Seriously, are they lesbians?", or both or all three mutually laughing at Eri-chan and Momoko. The "Seriously?" is not just a response but a crass questioning of two women holding hands followed with not a question of curiosity but an accusing question.

Finally, the third background character says "this is my first time seeing the real thing". We can question what they mean by "first time", but their statement, along with the other two open up disbelief of the relationship. In summary of their comments they're basically saying "Hahaha! Look! Real lesbians! We're seeing real live lesbians! They are real!". This is treating Momoko and Eri-chan as a spectacle to be laughed at and openly commented on.

The background characters are speaking loud enough that Eri-chan and Momoko are able to hear them from a distance. This also seems to be occurring at an open-air cafe therefore others are likely hearing these comments as well, bringing attention to themselves and unwanted attention to Eri-chan and Momoko.

Lesbianism also is not rare nor unusual as you put it. A major reason homosexuality appears rare in public is because society has been prone to treat us poorly, and that was part of Eri-chan's concern of holding hands. Curiosity is understandable when seeing something one may not see often or if ever before, but the background characters are not showing simple and respectful curiosity.

last edited at Jan 15, 2019 1:37AM

I like that she didn’t take the collar off and went home with it on.

The worst part about this manga is that nobody acts even remotely like a human would.

I don’t know about you but I’m pretty sure anyone would let their gay friend put a choker on them for money.

Confirmed. No money down, just love.

last edited at Jan 10, 2019 9:43PM

"Met my fellow student on a lesbian call girl site."
Had they been sisters as well, and I'd have believed this was made by Mochi

EDIT: Is "gay for pay" an appropriate tag in this case? We don't actually know if she wasn't gay to begin with, and seemed pretty chill over the idea.

I don't think that it is. Nothing indicates that she's straight yet the story does imply her preference was to work for a lesbian service. Also, the friend states noticed that she go ncredibly wet.

I don't think she's just acting as a lesbian to make money. She's working for a lesbian service because she is a lesbian.

last edited at Jan 9, 2019 5:51PM

Inko-Sensei can draw [hard-boiled] love

last edited at Jan 9, 2019 5:38PM

I'm a little confused as to which limb is which in the second cell. But I also have six reasons not to care.

last edited at Jan 6, 2019 1:32PM

Why was my post removed? I did not mean an argumentative or investigative intent, only to share my view on the image and respond to comments. I see the image as abuse and feel that I should be able to share that view.

The silver haired character has lipstick marks on her neck and lips showing some level of sexual encounter occurred -- either prior to or during the assault. The character is also looking straight forward, in a despondent manner, seemingly avoiding the glare of the redhead. With a grip on the redhead characters hair it appears that the silver haired character is either trying to stop the redhead from getting closer or she's trying to pull the redhead away from her. The image does not appear as consensual BDSM nor rough sex.

The image may have started as a turf war, the imagery used gives that possible appearance. But to me that doesn't change that it also appears to be assault.

last edited at Jan 6, 2019 1:24PM