Forum › Futanari discussion

Ykn1
joined Dec 20, 2018

I it's pornographic

But, as stated, not in its entirety.

Capture
joined Mar 12, 2014

Should typically not be paired with the yuri tag unless a there is a relationship involving a yuri couple which is separate from the futanari aspect, or unless the work isn't pornographic in its entirety and thus has a relationship to bother speaking about.

Has this second rule always been here?

I wonder if non-pornographic futanari works even exist in the first place.

Yep, we got one right here.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/going_off_course

Coming of age story featuring sex, there is sex scene but it's not porn.

OrangePekoe Admin
Animesher.com_tamako-market-midori-tokiwa-deviantart-950416a
joined Mar 20, 2013

What's a "wanna be boy"?

46-75
joined Jun 25, 2019

Your straight no lesbian's like futa only females straight men and bi women and men like it.

That's just your opinion, peoples are free like any genre. I don't see how being a lesbian clash with liking Futanari.

Just imagine their confusion when they learn that some lesbians like to watch gay porn.

Yea there is a word for lesbian's who like dick or men it's called bisexual.
The lesbian's who do like it are wanna be boys and girls that go for them normal lesbian's don't. FYI

Good to know that people can't like something because of their sexuality. Sound narrow minded to me.

46-75
joined Jun 25, 2019

Your straight no lesbian's like futa only females straight men and bi women and men like it.

That's just your opinion, peoples are free like any genre. I don't see how being a lesbian clash with liking Futanari.

Just imagine their confusion when they learn that some lesbians like to watch gay porn.

Yea there is a word for lesbian's who like dick or men it's called bisexual.
The lesbian's who do like it are wanna be boys and girls that go for them normal lesbian's don't. FYI

Good to know that people can't like something because of their sexuality. Sound narrow minded to me.

Well am bisexual I had a lot of partners both male and female a lot of lesbian's didn't like it when I shown them futa or straight porn hell they don't like lesbian porn because it stereotypes and the fake moaning.

I mean, that's the opinion you have gathered. It's not the opinion of every lesbian out there.

Onee-san%20pfp
joined Jun 21, 2021

It's the majority because I have experience it's the same do all straight men like gay porn? How about straight girls do they like lesbian porn? Its a small number most don't.

Your whole Argumentation is horseshit.
A) your "evidence" is purely anecdotal and can't be extrapolated to all or even most people.
B) women who have a penis also exist, they can be lesbians and be with other lesbians.
C) a penis is just a body part, it doesn't indicate gender. A woman's penis is a female body part bc it is that of a woman, that's all there is to it.

Know that your whole argument is rooted in transphobic rhetoric and bioessentialism and I don't care for it one bit.

last edited at Jan 25, 2022 4:44AM

joined Jul 26, 2016

Hey this troll is actually putting in some effort. Rare sight nowadays.

Kuronie
joined Apr 20, 2013

But it's a "Troll from 4chan" anyway, you can't get more cliche than that ... But I sure don't like someone dictating what I should like, how I should like it and what I am.
Why the popular "mind your own business / live and let others live" advice, despite being so popular, is also the one that people find harder to follow?

Licentious Lantern
Lantern%202
joined Sep 17, 2021

Oh my... after seeing that "debate" I understand why this thread kept popping up for the last few days. I almost believed there was some interesting discussion about the tag, but alas.

Then I want to share something more constructtive. Although Futanari is not a tag I engage with overly much (yes I know this essay long post will put doubt on that haha), I do occasionally find it an inoffensive addition to some scenarios.

I think what we first need to establish here is that the tag is exceptionally malleable. It can be adjusted to an artist's preferences to a much larger degree than most other fetish tags and I think that is one of its strengths. While the original concept is 100% a hermaphrodite woman with both sexual organs, I have witnessed endless varieties by now (even scenarios with a strongly enlarged clitoris being equated to futanari). It has come to the point where the tags even try to acommodate such things, at least on more in-depth pornographc sites.

The most standard futanari would be, of course, a woman with a penis above her vagina (optional testicles are just another sub-variety). She is 100% a woman, only with an additional body part. This is no different from a woman with a third arm or an extra eye... it is not pretty to look at, but she is a woman nontheless. There is the addition of perhaps some male hormonal imbalance that causes the kind of fetishistic scenarios people associate with the genre, but in essence this is just a woman anyway. I have seen good arguments being made that a standard futanari dating/sleeping with a woman (futanari x female) is in essence still a lesbian experience, but I can also see why this seems unacceptable to many (lesbians or otherwise). The separation of the tags makes sense, because while both opinions exist, the ones being harmed more by mixing the tags are those who are with the more relevant audience (Yuri). Someone who is into Futanari content surely can just be satisfied with that tag on its own and won't be bothered if it contains more yuri than futa, but the very notion that something is tagged yuri and reveals futanari all of a sudden can be... traumatic to some.

I think what we all can agree on is that Futanari x male (or the reverse) is neither Yuri nor BL. While I have seen the sentiment that reading futanari x male makes a male reader "gay", I don't believe this is something with any serious backing. Ultimately it is in essence just Het.

The second most common type of Futanari would be the one that has become more popular lately, unfortunately, in my opinion. The futanari that only has the male sex organ. This is the reason why there has been a strong misconception about Futanari being equatable to Transsexual lately. Many sites combat this by making a distinction between Futanari and Shemale (a tag that also gets conflated with trans too much, but uh, small victories). Ultimately this variation on futanari goes against the original intent of the tag, but it is not completely wrong, as hermaphroditism does not automatically mean two primary sexual features of both sexes. Having breasts and female anatomy (secondary sexual features) with male genitalia in itself is hermaphroditism. But transsexuality is not hermaprhoditism. So stories about transsexuals in the middle of physical transition are not Futanari in concept.

On the topic on why futanari can appeal to lesbians: As I pointed out in the first section, many can argue that futanari x female is lesbian in concept. In fact it is entirely possible to completely ignore the male organ and only focus on the female one (though then it would be questionable why this is even a futanari story). Quite a few doujins and the like even start out with a completely born female gaining the extra body part through magic, science or being just very horny. In those cases it is even more understandable why this is just a lesbian experience to many people.
If we alter our perspective slightly, a futanari is essentially a woman with a strap-on... made of muscle tissue. The other aspect that is both of interest and contentious is of course the ability of producing semen. A futanari can give a woman something that many lesbians dream of being able to... a child. So if we combine all these factors we have what is essentially still a woman, who uses a strap-on (something most lesbians can relate to) and has the ability to get her partner pregnant. This is ultimately wish fulfillment, which is what sexual fantasies tend to thrive on. Is it messy? Is it perhaps a bit too heteronormative? Absolutely. But there is no need to treat fetish fantasies like real life desires.

On the topic of how futanari can be implemented organically into fiction outside of porn: In many fantasy stories there are hermaphrodite races. It is not uncommon at all, though it is generally not the focus (unless it is a porn game or a eroge). If the race is strongly humanoid (elf, fairy etc.) this is basically the same as human futanari. There are also "all female" tribe/nation/country scenarios where the concept is more implied or assumed. When this biological aspect is left as background information it can be rather unobtrusive. Until one of the women gets pregnant with her female partner, but well, that is not a bad thing for stories that span generations. Lesbians in long-term fantasy usually face the issue with not having progeny (outside of adoption).

Uhm... so yeah. This was my dissertation on a fetish tag. I will be here all week.

last edited at Jan 26, 2022 10:31AM

RadiosAreObsolete
Img_20210321_022239%20(2)
joined Mar 6, 2021

(yes I know this essay long post will put doubt on that haha)

It really did...

Licentious Lantern
Lantern%202
joined Sep 17, 2021

(yes I know this essay long post will put doubt on that haha)

It really did...

Hahaha. As a professional overthinker I can invest myself in matters that I do not have all that much contact with. One time I fell into the rabbit hole of ancient Greek ship making, knowledge so useless it may as well reduce my overall intelligence. But now I can write an essay about penteconters and why they are really versatile ships.

Also I do read some futanari content on occasion, so I naturally do have an interest. Otherwise I wouldn't even have joined the discussion.

A2bcf11834a1918b3f09b4219b2a099f_r
joined Aug 16, 2014

The separation of the tags makes sense, because while both opinions exist, the ones being harmed more by mixing the tags are those who are with the more relevant audience (Yuri). Someone who is into Futanari content surely can just be satisfied with that tag on its own and won't be bothered if it contains more yuri than futa, but the very notion that something is tagged yuri and reveals futanari all of a sudden can be... traumatic to some.

Imo, the problem with using both tags is in fact the fetishistic nature of this genre (big boobs, big cocks, big libido, lots of fluids... Although I suppose even the fact a character has both sets of genitals counts as fetishistic). I see little reason not to use the Yuri tag because of a penis otherwise. Unless you're a transphobe, but then your opinion shouldn't matter in the first place.

One time I fell into the rabbit hole of ancient Greek ship making, knowledge so useless it may as well reduce my overall intelligence.

Until you happen to need to build an ancient greek ship, that is.

last edited at Jan 26, 2022 12:20PM

Licentious Lantern
Lantern%202
joined Sep 17, 2021

Imo, the problem with using both tags is in fact the fetishistic nature of this genre (big boobs, big cocks, big libido, lots of fluids... Although I suppose even the fact a character has both sets of genitals counts as fetishistic). I see little reason not to use the Yuri tag because of a penis otherwise. Unless you're a transphobe, but then your opinion shouldn't matter in the first place.

Then again, Yuri can be fetishistic too, so I can't say how much that holds up. Also I have read some futa (some of the only I bother remembering) in Love Live doujins that was handled very tastefully. It wasn't fetishistic at all and actually rather tame. Something that would be too vanilla even for het porn I suppose. Realism is rare in the genre I think, but it can work.

Talking about the topic of transsexuality and body conformism is... complicated. But although I find your attitude admirable, there is absolutely a relevance for context. Yes, technically a woman can have a penis if it is a trans woman. Technically. But as I pointed out, futanari and transsexuality are not the same. The only valid comparison is a real life hermaphrodite with both sex organs, which is so beyond rare that it is nearly considered a miracle. Hermaphrodites are not really women. Though by the few cases I know, they generally are allowed to choose their official sex in real life at least. It's a fringe case that makes classification very hard.

Point is, when you tag something you want to be aware of what the audience expects. On a trans story you will have the Trans tag on top of the Yuri tag if it is a trans woman loving another woman. Though on a mental level most may agree that a trans woman is a woman, it doesnt mean physical rejection will disappear. Much like the majority (not all of course) of lesbians tend to avoid dating trans women, so will many also not want to see sex with a trans woman. So the tags are in conjunction, because they both apply and inform/warn.

But with futanari, there is an inherent understanding that the futanari is not a woman, but can be treated like one. It is optional though and there is disagreement that cannot be objectively nailed down like you can with trans. To make it really clear why this doesn't work is this: If futanari by default are considered women, then you would not have to tag it Futanari. Yuri on its own would be more than enough to describe a futanari x female work at its most basic. I dont think you will find a single person who agrees with that, at least in the yuri community.

Until you happen to need to build an ancient greek ship, that is.

It might be easier to build a modern sailing boat to be frank!

last edited at Jan 26, 2022 1:25PM

A2bcf11834a1918b3f09b4219b2a099f_r
joined Aug 16, 2014

Technically. But as I pointed out, futanari and transsexuality are not the same. The only valid comparison is a real life hermaphrodite with both sex organs, which is so beyond rare that it is nearly considered a miracle.

Which is why I mentioned the nature itself of the character to be fetishistic, as opposed to Transgender.

Hermaphrodites are not really women.

*female

It might be easier to build a modern sailing boat to be frank!

Since when easier is synonymous with better or more fun!?

Licentious Lantern
Lantern%202
joined Sep 17, 2021

Technically. But as I pointed out, futanari and transsexuality are not the same. The only valid comparison is a real life hermaphrodite with both sex organs, which is so beyond rare that it is nearly considered a miracle.

Which is why I mentioned the nature itself of the character to be fetishistic, as opposed to Transgender.

I dont see the inherent fetishism in something being fantastical or ultra rare.

Hermaphrodites are not really women.

*female

I suppose there are hermaphrodite animals, so the classification should be female. But you know what I meant.

last edited at Jan 26, 2022 1:40PM

A2bcf11834a1918b3f09b4219b2a099f_r
joined Aug 16, 2014

I suppose there are hermaphrodite animals, so the classification should be female. But you know what I meant.

No, you're the one misunderstanding, maybe on account of language differences. They wouldn't be female, right. But "woman" refers to gender and not birth circunstances. Such character could be a woman. Or a man. Or something else entirely, depending on the character itself (granted, that's not a subject that would be breached in porn).
And, at least as far as Dynasty's concerned, Yuri refers to the relationship between two women.

Licentious Lantern
Lantern%202
joined Sep 17, 2021

I suppose there are hermaphrodite animals, so the classification should be female. But you know what I meant.

No, you're the one misunderstanding, maybe on account of language differences. They wouldn't be female, right. But "woman" refers to gender and not birth circunstances. Such character could be a woman. Or a man. Or something else entirely, depending on the character itself (granted, that's not a subject that would be breached in porn).
And, at least as far as Dynasty's concerned, Yuri refers to the relationship between two women.

I try to keep an open mind on most things, but separating the terms woman and female is a bit too far even for me. A woman will always be female. A matured human female is a woman. I don't think there is any way to go around that scientific classification. Female gender and female sex may be a different matter due to transsexuals, but they are still both female. A trans woman is of the male birth sex, but a female in gender. Similarily a trans man is a of the female birth sex, but male in gender.

If a trans woman is considered a woman, then female and woman are synonymous for gender. And thus they are also synonymous for the sex. After all the entire point of transsexuals is that they are in the wrong body that has to be altered to suit the gender. A trans woman who has not transitioned yet is male in body, but strives to be female in body eventually (in general, not always). So sex will align eventually.

Uhm... long story short female = woman when it comes to humans. Hermaphrodites arent either.

A2bcf11834a1918b3f09b4219b2a099f_r
joined Aug 16, 2014

Female gender and female sex may be a different matter due to transsexuals, but they are still both female.

As I said: misunderstanding based on language differences. I'm aware that english speakers use them interchangeably, which's always been very weird to me. In my mother language, you'd never call a woman a "female" outside of very rude and sexist remarks.

[...] the entire point of transsexuals is that they are in the wrong body

You really don't seem to interact with transgender content much.

joined Jan 6, 2017

Female gender and female sex may be a different matter due to transsexuals, but they are still both female.

As I said: misunderstanding based on language differences. I'm aware that english speakers use them interchangeably, which's always been very weird to me. In my mother language, you'd never call a woman a "female" outside of very rude and sexist remarks.

It depends on the English speaker. Personally I find the term "female" to sound very dehumanising so I tend to only use it to refer to sex.
Like, saying "look at those women" vs "look at those females", the latter sounds so rude. Like you don't see them as people. So using it to refer to gender just makes me queasy

Licentious Lantern
Lantern%202
joined Sep 17, 2021

Female gender and female sex may be a different matter due to transsexuals, but they are still both female.

As I said: misunderstanding based on language differences. I'm aware that english speakers use them interchangeably, which's always been very weird to me. In my mother language, you'd never call a woman a "female" outside of very rude and sexist remarks.

I mean... one is a scientific classification, the other is just a descriptive term. They are inherently linked. As long as the classification applies, so does the descriptor. I don't know any language where the scientific use of these terms differs.

[...] the entire point of transsexuals is that they are in the wrong body

You really don't seem to interact with transgender content much.

"Content", maybe not. The definition however is pretty clear. I try my hardest to stick to definitions with things that don't apply to me, as there are about infinite subjective nuances that I will not get hung up on. This entire conversation happened because people cannot agree on what lesbians may enjoy for some reason. I wanted to give my subjective input on why this can be the case there, because it is easy for me to relate. With trans topics, I cannot, so I will not give subjective opinions.

Whatever way an actual trans person will go about their lives, in essence the situation is one of sex and gender not aligning. Period. Otherwise the definition doesn't exist, in which case there is no conversation to be had anyway for me.

last edited at Jan 26, 2022 2:23PM

A2bcf11834a1918b3f09b4219b2a099f_r
joined Aug 16, 2014

I mean... one is a is scientific classification, the other is just a descriptive term. They are inherently linked. As long as the classification applies, so does the descriptor. I don't know any language where the scientific use of these terms differs.

Their inherent link is that you're expected to be the latter by being born as the former.

The definition however is pretty clear. [...]

While some transpeople are known to use the expression I quoted previously, plenty of others would disagree with you.

Licentious Lantern
Lantern%202
joined Sep 17, 2021

I mean... one is a is scientific classification, the other is just a descriptive term. They are inherently linked. As long as the classification applies, so does the descriptor. I don't know any language where the scientific use of these terms differs.

Their inherent link is that you're expected to be the latter by being born as the former.

Not at all. The inherent link is that if you are scientifically classified as female you are a woman. These two terms are inseperable whether you are cis or trans. Sex and gender can be seperated, the terms female and woman cannot.

The definition however is pretty clear. [...]

While some transpeople are known to use the expression I quoted previously, plenty of others would disagree with you.

Subjective disagreements are inevitable on any matter of identity. But much like a lesbian is defined by being sexually attracted only to other women, a transsexual is defined by their sex and gender not aligning. If you take umbridge with the concept that the ultimate goal of trans people is alignment of body to mind, then I will concede that this may be subjective. But this seems to be rather a physical limitation than an identity matter. In an ideal world where humans could change their bodies in accordance to their gender, I doubt anybody would avoid transition. It is so inherent to the term: trans.

Now futanari on the other hand, if born hermaphrodite, would be far more complex. This is why nobody can agree what they are haha.

last edited at Jan 26, 2022 3:11PM

Onee-san%20pfp
joined Jun 21, 2021

Whatever way an actual trans person will go about their lives, in essence the situation is one of sex and gender not aligning. Period. Otherwise the definition doesn't exist, in which case there is no conversation to be had anyway for me.

I don't have the energy to engage this discussion to its full extent but here's some advice from a trans person:

If you're not trans you don't get to decide what defines being trans. Ever. Whatever you think makes sense, textbook definitions or anything else, are irrelevant. Being trans is what a trans person says it is.
As such the most fundamental and simple way to describe what being trans is, is the following: "The gender assigned to a person at birth doesn't match their actual gender." That's it. Literally everything else is optional.

Also, I know "hermaphrodite" is a popular term in porn but as is the case with porn terms related to transness, it is considered highly disrespectful, the proper term for (real) people with sex characteristics that "do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies" is "intersexual".

last edited at Jan 26, 2022 3:20PM

Licentious Lantern
Lantern%202
joined Sep 17, 2021

Whatever way an actual trans person will go about their lives, in essence the situation is one of sex and gender not aligning. Period. Otherwise the definition doesn't exist, in which case there is no conversation to be had anyway for me.

I don't have the energy to engage this discussion to its full extent but here's some advice from a trans person:

If you're not trans you don't get to decide what defines being trans. Ever. Whatever you think makes sense, textbook definitions or anything else, are irrelevant. Being trans is what a trans person says it is.

Okay, so if that is your stance, do you not get to use the definition of lesbian unless you are a lesbian? Do you not get to use the definition of Caucasian unless you are caucasian?
I am a scientific minded person. I do not believe that people have ownership of definitions. If something cannot be objectively defined at all in any kind of consensus, then it is simply not scientifically defined yet, in which case I also don't have to accept any subjective definition, unless out of respect for the person's logic. I was told several times that the definition for transsexuality has been decided on by now though.

As such the most fundamental and simple way to describe what being trans is, is the following: "The gender assigned to a person at birth doesn't match their actual gender." That's it. Literally everything else is optional.

This is not actually different from what I said. Unless you believe there are dozens of genders and the like, but that is not related to classical transsexuality. Transsexuality is directly linked between gender and sex. The contradiction of the two is the point. If my sex is female and some doctor accidentally checked the male mark on my certificate, I would not be considered trans just because I was misassigned. There has to be a relation between sex and gender for the term to have any useful application.

Also, I know "hermaphrodite" is a popular term in porn but as is the case with porn terms related to transness, it is considered highly disrespectful, the proper term for (real) people with sex characteristics that "do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies" is "intersexual".

Hermaphrodites, or rather futanari in the case of this discussion, have nothing inherently to do with transsexuality. Neither do intersex people. It is an entirely physical classification. True hermaphroditism is simply not recorded in human biological history, so intersex is the only realistic application of course.
Hermaphrodite is not a porn term, though. The term has existed since ancient Greece and the scientific use has also nothing to do with porn. Hermaphroditism in animals has been classified for a long time and is still used today.

joined Jan 6, 2017

If something cannot be objectively defined at all in any kind of consensus, then it is simply not scientifically defined yet

Nothing can be objectively defined because words are inherently subjective.

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