Forum › How to Break a Triangle discussion

7277b022-9e31-4bec-a22e-b7ad36fb501e
joined Sep 5, 2019

How did this manga get past me? But better late than never I guess.

All I can say is wow, this is very interesting.

Kaseyamada
joined Jun 28, 2019

She is not deluded or self-pitiful. She gives her best to fit, but world rejects her (a hole in education between her real age and her "new" age)

I did not see such cruelty and mercilessness for a long time.

Any 14-years-old kid who gets isekai'ed and must fight scores of monsters to survive has it a hundred times worse than Aya.

She already got interogated by the police. So the authorities accept her story.

......
Dude. Did you even read the manga?

joined Jul 6, 2020

......
Dude. Did you even read the manga?

Yes? And dont call me dude.

joined May 11, 2023

I really don't understand the deep admiration you people have for Erika. She is kind of creepy in my book. I mean move on. Koto has not even once looked in your direction. At least Koto tried, unsuccessfully, to move on and meet new people.

She only wished Aya back so that she can finally get, what she considers her birthright apparently, Koto. She has been completely indifferent to Aya. She was not happy she was back. She was only happy that Koto will finally get her closure so that she can get her obsession. Who is not even remotely interested in her. Get a life Erika.

I mean your childhood friend returns after 7 years. She is scared and lost. But your only thought is that now you can finally get Koto. That makes Erika self-centered to the extreme. Her love is more akin to an obsession. It has been 7 years Erika. Move on. At least Koto and Aya had something going on once.

But really no one really cares about Aya. Even Koto is acting all weird for someone who supposedly believes that Aya was her great love. Her soulmate. Or something like that.

last edited at Feb 14, 2024 2:47AM

Avatar200
joined Oct 19, 2022

A classic example (that you see a lot in books and movies) is the kid whose parents die in a war and has to protect his/her little siblings and provide for them. The only thing you can do in such a situation is to grow up fast and rise equal to the challenges. It's sad but there's no other choice.

What are you talking about? Of there is another choice. She can finish her education. They live in Japan not some civil war torn country.

It's called an analogy. Look it up.
In the dictionary.
If you don't know how, I give up.

last edited at Feb 14, 2024 6:01PM

joined Jul 6, 2020

A classic example (that you see a lot in books and movies) is the kid whose parents die in a war and has to protect his/her little siblings and provide for them. The only thing you can do in such a situation is to grow up fast and rise equal to the challenges. It's sad but there's no other choice.

What are you talking about? Of there is another choice. She can finish her education. They live in Japan not some civil war torn country.

It's called an analogy. Look it up.

Yes, a pretty bad one since she is not in such a hopepless situation. There are adults there that can protect her. She shouldn't be faced with 'having no choice'

last edited at Feb 14, 2024 3:14AM

joined Oct 24, 2023

For chapter 8.5:
It has been clear now Koto's motive to treat Aya that (fucking horrible) way in chapter 4 was because she also wanted to get some revenge.

She just can't let go of the fact Aya didn't respond to her first confession SEVEN YEARS AGO (Damn this woman. You get stabbed by your supposed best friend in the middle of the road, to think she willing to risk long-time friendship regardless how you feel, then you have to say yes to the girl you don't like in romantic way immediately or you would be cursed???)

I sincerely hope Aya would run away from that woman since she must OWE her a lot for all spirited away thing.

RadiosAreObsolete
Img_20210321_022239%20(2)
joined Mar 6, 2021

I really don't understand the deep admiration you people have for Erika. She is kind of creepy in my book. I mean move on. Koto has not even once looked in your direction. At least Koto tried, unsuccessfully, to move on and meet new people.

She only wished Aya back so that she can finally get, what she considers her birthright apparently, Koto. She has been completely indifferent to Aya. She was not happy she was back. She was only happy that Koto will finally get her closure so that she can get her obsession. Who is not even remotely interested in her. Get a life Erika.

I mean your childhood friend returns after 7 years. She is scared and lost. But your only thought is that now you can finally get Koto. That makes Erika self-centered to the extreme. Her love is more akin to an obsession. It has been 7 years Erika. Move on. At least Koto and Aya had something going on once.

But really no one really cares about Aya. Even Koto is acting all weird for someone who supposedly believes that Aya was her great love. Her soulmate. Or something like that.

It seems some people are this passionate about Erika because they are conflating her with Sayaka from Bloom into You (side note: I didn't care much about her either, so perhaps I just don't particularly like the second friend character). I wouldn't call Erika creepy, but I agree that she's self-centered. I don't really get why she's so hung up on Koto either, but perhaps Aya's disappearance affected her in a similar way it affected Koto and they're both stuck in place.

I think it's interesting that Erika seems to be the catalyst for Aya coming back. We still don't have have enough information to conclude if she was "responsible" for her disappearance though. I do believe that she probably played a part in it, but I don't think she was the only factor.

joined Jun 11, 2021

This manga is so good. Aya is a very interesting character.

Slime
joined Feb 22, 2023

It's called an analogy. Look it up.

Yes, a pretty bad one since she is not in such a hopepless situation. There are adults there that can protect her. She shouldn't be faced with 'having no choice'

Aaand he clearly didn't look it up. Some guys just hate the dictionary.

Avatar%20105
joined May 24, 2019

I think the whole rumpus stems from a small number of people (three or four by my count) who didn't understand the premise of the story at all. What we have here is a variant of the typical regressor/transmigrator/reincarnator plotline. Aya time-travelled to the future and now has to adapt herself to her new setting: she lost her house, there are no relatives around, she's been officially declared a 21-year-old adult citizen by the authorities, and she has the choice between bucking up and taking on the challenge or keep mooching from her friends. Whining and bitching about it won't lead anywhere. You think Aya is a victim of injustice? Well so do I, but nothing can be done about it. State and society don't believe in time travel, it's all chuunibyou crap to them. Aya is like some isekai'ed kid who must pick a sword and kill man-eating monsters in order to survive: she too must to dig deep and find the mettle to rise up to the challenge. And let's be honest: her problems, as another poster said before, don't seem so woeful when you think that she could be in another world surrounded by orcs who want to rape her or eat her or both.

joined Jan 14, 2020

whichever path she chooses, society will see her as an adult and she'll have to live with it.

Society's bureaucracy sees her as a 21 year old adult.

Society's people see her as a 14 year old kid, which she is.

She probably can't go back to school because she's an "adult" and she can't go to college, or date the people she knows without backlash, because she's a kid. "Catch-22" kind of applies.

don't seem so woeful when you think that she could be in another world surrounded by orcs

This isn't a useful analogy. Yeah, she's not in immediate physical danger a la orcs. OTOH the orc problem is kind of simpler: they want to stab you, you stab them back, you win or die. Aya's problem doesn't have a simple solution like that.

Also, I'd note that she's not in immediate physical danger because Koto is willing to take her in. But she's one bad fight (or two, if Erika could step up) away from being homeless. She has no money, she has difficulty getting a job because she "dropped out" of middle school. Even the common fallback of sex work would be problematic because she looks 14 (and _is_14. Though with her paperwork she could find a niche serving creepy people.)

Avatar200
joined Oct 19, 2022

Also, I'd note that she's not in immediate physical danger because Koto is willing to take her in. But she's one bad fight (or two, if Erika could step up) away from being homeless. She has no money, she has difficulty getting a job because she "dropped out" of middle school.

Enter Kumagaya to the rescue.
Which is, I believe, why so many have been saying she's good for Aya.

Avatar%20105
joined May 24, 2019

Society's people see her as a 14 year old kid, which she is.

Like all those guys who refused to hire her after they saw 21 on her cv? lol

Also, I'd note that she's not in immediate physical danger because Koto is willing to take her in. But she's one bad fight (or two, if Erika could step up) away from being homeless. She has no money, she has difficulty getting a job because she "dropped out" of middle school.

Enter Kumagaya to the rescue.
Which is, I believe, why so many have been saying she's good for Aya.

Yup. Leaving aside the psychological side of things (she treats Aya as an equal) she can help Aya get a job and maybe also a place to stay if things go fubar with Koto.

joined Jan 14, 2020

Like all those guys who refused to hire her after they saw 21 on her cv? lol

Like the people Koto was afraid would judge her if she claimed Aya as her girlfriend. "lol"

last edited at Feb 14, 2024 7:07PM

joined Jul 23, 2019

Also, I'd note that she's not in immediate physical danger because Koto is willing to take her in. But she's one bad fight (or two, if Erika could step up) away from being homeless. She has no money, she has difficulty getting a job because she "dropped out" of middle school.

Enter Kumagaya to the rescue.
Which is, I believe, why so many have been saying she's good for Aya.

Yup. Leaving aside the psychological side of things (she treats Aya as an equal) she can help Aya get a job and maybe also a place to stay if things go fubar with Koto.

What a perfect example of Plato's dialectical method. Make the interlocutor circle through reasoned argumentation all the way back to the truth you had stated in the beginning. Kudos to you! d^.^b

Avatar%20105
joined May 24, 2019

What a perfect example of Plato's dialectical method. Make the interlocutor circle through reasoned argumentation all the way back to the truth you had stated in the beginning. Kudos to you! d^.^b

Aw shucks, you're making me blush.

Username%20dyn%20tirkiz
joined Dec 23, 2018

I have a question for people who see Aya as "on the paper" 21 years old.
Would you approve if Koto and Aya move their relationship to the next level (have sex few chapters from now on?)

Be brave and express your thoughts (personally I won't judge, I'm just curious to see the arguments, pro or con)

last edited at Feb 14, 2024 8:46PM

Avatarstella200
joined Oct 29, 2023

I have a question for people who see Aya as "on the paper" 21 years old.
Would you approve if Koto and Aya move their relationship to the next level (have sex few chapters from now on?)

Well yeah. No arguments, I just like age gap yuri. Even better if one of the girls is a loli or a teen. Long live Itou Hachi!

Username%20dyn%20tirkiz
joined Dec 23, 2018

I have a question for people who see Aya as "on the paper" 21 years old.
Would you approve if Koto and Aya move their relationship to the next level (have sex few chapters from now on?)

Well yeah. No arguments, I just like age gap yuri. Even better if one of the girls is a loli or a teen. Long live Itou Hachi!

Your reasons are different, it's about your personal preference.
We are talking here about 14 years old girl who would not be protected by the law if she becomes a prey of some (hypothetical) sexual predator, just because on some PAPER is written that she is 21 years old.
And many commenters here expressed how she should be ready to take responsibilities of an adult and "grow fast".
If it is like they say, Aya should act as an adult in sexual way as well.
And nobody could judge, because she is 21 yo on the paper.

Eventual consensual sex between Aya and Koto could happen, logically. But question is how much Aya is emotionally prepared for it at this point of the story.

I just wanted to make a parallel (asking my question) telling that forcing an emotionally unprepared child into adulthood is same as forcing them to have sex.
We can't separate it and tell: "Go find a job, work, stop being crybaby, be responsible as an adult, etc.", and on the other side tell to the same person:
"You, can't have sex, you're still a child!"

Well, decide what it is. If there's discordance, it's hypocrisy.

Let's talk openly here, we all (or majority) here would like to see Aya having sex (with Koto, or some other girl). It's normal.
I'm only pointing out that we have two streams in this discussion by indicators; one stream who would push it to happen forcefully without caring too much about emotional state of the character in question (Aya in this case),
and the second stream who cares about emotional state of the character in question, having an understanding and patience for their emotional development and preparation for "the act".
That's reality of life.
And I'm intentionally using those sexual acts analogies, it's easier to see clearly and understand situation about Aya better.

last edited at Feb 15, 2024 1:47AM

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

I think there's a misunderstanding here. This manga isn't going to go into any real questioning about sex or not.

It already vaguely alluded to it and it was just to show how immature Aya still is compared to Koto, because this isn't something she thinks about, while Koto can have that kind of thought. And that's where it'll stop.

I'll bet this manga will never go into the hard question of sex, because it's NOT what it's about. It's about a triangle, how to break it and how the characters will handle it. Also, supernatural.

You can make a doujin if you want, but I think Kabocha will never go there.

joined Oct 24, 2023

I think there's a misunderstanding here. This manga isn't going to go into any real questioning about sex or not.

I think it is just a hypothetical question to show how hypocritical they truly are. They absolutely can side with Erika and hope one day the two would break up so Erika can have her chance. BUT THEY DON'T JUST ADMIT IT.

Instead, they pretend to care Aya's situation all of a sudden while this chapter is mainly talking about Erika and her hopeless love.

It already vaguely alluded to it and it was just to show how immature Aya still is compared to Koto, because this isn't something she thinks about, while Koto can have that kind of thought. And that's where it'll stop.

I'm not sure about that. Koto does seem like that kind of people who would force herself on Aya if she dare to leave or break up with her.

I'll bet this manga will never go into the hard question of sex, because it's NOT what it's about. It's about a triangle, how to break it and how the characters will handle it. Also, supernatural.

The author actually never drew kiss scene before this subject. It's too early to make that conclusion imo.

last edited at Feb 15, 2024 4:20AM

Username%20dyn%20tirkiz
joined Dec 23, 2018

I'll bet this manga will never go into the hard question of sex, because it's NOT what it's about. It's about a triangle, how to break it and how the characters will handle it. Also, supernatural.

Yeah, I know it and I agree with you. I said that I'm intentionally using sex-analogies to show how harsh is when some emotionally unprepared character (a child) is forcefully pushed (by others or by circumstances) into adulthood (other used fights with orcas analogies, etc.)

Other analogy (talking about how majority of us here, including me, would not mind development of the story in "that" direction) served to cleanse myself of false puritanism by asking the initial question.
I really did not want to sound like some "Saint-Judgement", or hypocrite.
Making a doujin really wasn't my intention for my choice of wording in my previous comment.

Anyway, I was talking about hypothetical but very possible situations (in manga or reality, it does not matter), manga itself opens a vast of various possibilities for discussion. With its setting it already criticize society, seriously questioning political system and its valuations, etc.
It's subtle, and maybe not the main idea of the author, but we can't close our eyes or be indifferent to the subjects what manga touches, directly or indirectly.
Questioning sexual maturity of the characters is actually something inescapable (and very desirable) in this situation. And it still is not going against the main plot line of this masterpiece.

We also could be creative in ways how we are commenting.

Primary%20avatar
joined May 15, 2021

I really don't understand the deep admiration you people have for Erika. She is kind of creepy in my book. I mean move on. Koto has not even once looked in your direction. At least Koto tried, unsuccessfully, to move on and meet new people.

She only wished Aya back so that she can finally get, what she considers her birthright apparently, Koto. She has been completely indifferent to Aya. She was not happy she was back. She was only happy that Koto will finally get her closure so that she can get her obsession. Who is not even remotely interested in her. Get a life Erika.

I mean your childhood friend returns after 7 years. She is scared and lost. But your only thought is that now you can finally get Koto. That makes Erika self-centered to the extreme. Her love is more akin to an obsession. It has been 7 years Erika. Move on. At least Koto and Aya had something going on once.

But really no one really cares about Aya. Even Koto is acting all weird for someone who supposedly believes that Aya was her great love. Her soulmate. Or something like that.

Honestly... Erika reads to me like someone who's erroneously assessing her own motives out of at least a degree of self-deprecation. She very much could have gone out with Koto if she wanted to, but realized that it wouldn't be healthy for her or Koto. She does want Koto and Aya to break up, but as things are now, that's a significantly more justified perspective, but since she also is still attracted to Koto, she misconstrues that motive to primarily be out of a desire to get together with her. Y'know what I mean?

joined May 11, 2023

I really don't understand the deep admiration you people have for Erika. She is kind of creepy in my book. I mean move on. Koto has not even once looked in your direction. At least Koto tried, unsuccessfully, to move on and meet new people.

She only wished Aya back so that she can finally get, what she considers her birthright apparently, Koto. She has been completely indifferent to Aya. She was not happy she was back. She was only happy that Koto will finally get her closure so that she can get her obsession. Who is not even remotely interested in her. Get a life Erika.

I mean your childhood friend returns after 7 years. She is scared and lost. But your only thought is that now you can finally get Koto. That makes Erika self-centered to the extreme. Her love is more akin to an obsession. It has been 7 years Erika. Move on. At least Koto and Aya had something going on once.

But really no one really cares about Aya. Even Koto is acting all weird for someone who supposedly believes that Aya was her great love. Her soulmate. Or something like that.

Honestly... Erika reads to me like someone who's erroneously assessing her own motives out of at least a degree of self-deprecation. She very much could have gone out with Koto if she wanted to, but realized that it wouldn't be healthy for her or Koto. She does want Koto and Aya to break up, but as things are now, that's a significantly more justified perspective, but since she also is still attracted to Koto, she misconstrues that motive to primarily be out of a desire to get together with her. Y'know what I mean?

No. I am not quite sure. Can you explain it a bit more. What do you think her motives are then? I think I am alone in this perspective. But I actually think that Erika really had a chance to try something with Koto when she asked her that one time in the past. If Erika had said yes, she could also have moved on.

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