Forum › Hana Ni Arashi discussion

YuriIsLife1998
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joined Apr 25, 2019

You just lack empathy, as opposite of Chidori who have understand that Mai wouldn't be able to move on if she didn't try once. What could i say, you just don't understand that people could care for others even if it hurt them.

There is limitation to everything; trust kindness, empathy and so on. If I have a lover whom I love and my lover love me back, I wouldn't ask someone to confess my lover just because she/he wouldn't be able to move on otherwise. And it's not because of I don't feel sorry for them nor I don't trust my lover. It's because I don't want to seem like the one who giving my lover away. If someone confess to my lover, I wouldn't mind because I trust my lover. I just wouldn't knowingly ask other person to confess to my lover.

last edited at Jun 12, 2020 10:50AM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

I just wouldn't knowingly ask other person to confess to my lover.

Your previous use of the term “alright” says that because you wouldn’t do what Chidori does that it’s wrong for anyone to ever do it.

Chidori is obviously much more empathetic than you are—she identifies with Mai’s emotional pain—and she’s much more secure in her relationship that you can imagine being. And we know why she feels that way, because the story has shown us why in no uncertain terms.

There are a variety of words for people who assume that their personal emotional responses and insecurities amount to universal laws for human behavior. Few of them are complimentary.

last edited at Jun 12, 2020 11:02AM

YuriIsLife1998
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joined Apr 25, 2019

Your previous use of the term “alright” says that because you wouldn’t do what Chidori does that it’s wrong for anyone to ever do it.

Did you just read everything I wrote?. Asking someone to confess to your lover make it seem like your lover is not that irreplaceable to you. No matter how much you trust your lover and no matter how you feel secure in your relationship, asking someone to confess to your lover made you seem like the person who can give away your lover. Create a poll and ask "Is it alright to encourage/ask other people to confess to my lover?" and post it on internet. Most would answer 'No'.

By the way, I know that Chidori is obviously much more empathetic than I can ever be. And I also see that she felt much more secure in her relationship.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Your previous use of the term “alright” says that because you wouldn’t do what Chidori does that it’s wrong for anyone to ever do it.

Did you just read everything I wrote?. Asking someone to confess to your lover make it seem like your lover is not that irreplaceable to you. No matter how much you trust your lover and no matter how you feel secure in your relationship, asking someone to confess to your lover made you seem like the person who can give away your lover. Create a poll and ask "Is it alright to encourage/ask other people to confess to my lover?" and post it on internet. Most would answer 'No'.

By the way, I know that Chidori is obviously much more empathetic than I can ever be. And I also see that she felt much more secure in her relationship.

I absolutely did read everything you wrote, and apparently I understood the implications of what you were saying better than you did.

If from the first you had said “I would never do what Chidori did” and left it at that—no problem. At most you might have gotten a few people to say “I wouldn’t either,” and a couple others explaining why they thought it was okay. That’s how you feel, and that’s perfectly fine.

But by continually putting the argument in terms like, “Asking someone to confess to your lover make it seem like your lover is not that irreplaceable to you,” you keep asserting that your response is some sort of universal law that applies across the board, that it’s a given that what Chidori did was (in your terms) “stupid.” (Although at least now you’ve chosen the fallback dodge of a poll to get evidence for what you somehow already know “most people” would say.)

That’s all putting aside the point that you are factually wrong on the basics of the actual situation—as has been pointed out previously Chidori explicitly did not “ask someone to confess to her lover.” She asked Mai to reflect on whether she was okay with leaving things where they were—it was up to Mai to decide what, if anything, to do. That is a far cry from “giving away your lover.”

1558977628371
joined May 29, 2019

Did you just read everything I wrote?. Asking someone to confess to your lover make it seem like your lover is not that irreplaceable to you. No matter how much you trust your lover and no matter how you feel secure in your relationship, asking someone to confess to your lover made you seem like the person who can give away your lover. Create a poll and ask "Is it alright to encourage/ask other people to confess to my lover?" and post it on internet. Most would answer 'No'.

By the way, I know that Chidori is obviously much more empathetic than I can ever be. And I also see that she felt much more secure in her relationship.

I definitely feel it's more nuanced than your suggested poll, chidori got put in a rough place with it. she either has to keep mai's feelings a secret from nanoha, which is terrible for a relationship, or reveal someone else's feelings without their permission. not even just someone else, but a close friend of nanoha and someone she's friendly with herself. if you think she was wrong going about it as she did, what would you have done?

YuriIsLife1998
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joined Apr 25, 2019

But by continually putting the argument in terms like, “Asking someone to confess to your lover make it seem like your lover is not that irreplaceable to you,” you keep asserting that your response is some sort of universal law that applies across the board, that it’s a given that what Chidori did was (in your terms) “stupid.”

Just so you know, I never did intend to imply that my opinion is some sort of universal law that applies across the board. And I'm sorry that it did seem like that. "stupid" is just my opinion to that kind of action. And as for my other argument like "Most people-", "-alright to-"...etc, these are just my belief and how things seem to me based on my experience in life and internet. I never intend to imply what Chidori did was "stupid" universally. All I wanted to say about what Chidori did was "stupid" and "unnecessary" in my opinion. I'm sorry if my previous posts in this forum gave such an implication to you or other people who have understood the same way.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

But by continually putting the argument in terms like, “Asking someone to confess to your lover make it seem like your lover is not that irreplaceable to you,” you keep asserting that your response is some sort of universal law that applies across the board, that it’s a given that what Chidori did was (in your terms) “stupid.”

Just so you know, I never did intend to imply that my opinion is some sort of universal law that applies across the board. And I'm sorry that it did seem like that. "stupid" is just my opinion to that kind of action. And as for my other argument like "Most people-", "-alright to-"...etc, these are just my belief and how things seem to me based on my experience in life and internet. I never intend to imply what Chidori did was "stupid" universally. All I wanted to say about what Chidori did was "stupid" and "unnecessary" in my opinion. I'm sorry if my previous posts in this forum gave such an implication to you or other people who have understood the same way.

OK--sorry to have been so snarky, then, because that's definitely how it came across.

Ykn1
joined Dec 20, 2018

Honestly, my one reaction to Chidori's advice to Mai was that Chidori being a truly good person like this was exactly why Mai knew she had no chance come between them and even went as far as to encourage Chidori before the trip despite her own feelings.

Im%20gonna%20fucking%20cry%20koyuki
joined Nov 5, 2017

My heart is gonna explode

Fetish%20notebook%20lsmol
joined May 20, 2013

Honestly, my one reaction to Chidori's advice to Mai was that Chidori being a truly good person like this was exactly why Mai knew she had no chance come between them and even went as far as to encourage Chidori before the trip despite her own feelings.

Yeah that's all there is to it. Chidori went through this whole 'keeping things to yourself' drama twice, and both times ended it in deep pain. She saw someone else about to go through with this pain, and saw that Mai wasn't a bad person, just misguided. So, out of empathy (because Chidori is a good person), she just gave solid advice as well as confronted Mai about the latter's own impulse to run away/lie.

Sure, some people wouldn't do what she did, but that's the fun part about reading with, and connecting to, individuals in stories like these: They might surprise you.

AnimexObsession
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joined Dec 27, 2014

AAHHH THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HARD WORK UPLOADERS AND TRANSLATORS AND EVERYONE I LOVE YOU ALL

Alice Cheshire Moderator
Dynasty_misc015
joined Nov 7, 2014

YuriIsLife1998 posted:

I'll be fine with Chidori telling she didn't mind if Mai confess to Nanoha because she trust Nanoha or someone else telling Mai to confess to Nanoha but I don't think it has to be Chidori to tell Mai to confess to Nanoha because you just DON'T tell someone to confess to your girlfriend no matter how much you trust your girlfriend. Love is selfish and somewhat possessive if not entirely possessive...

You're overlooking something here. Telling Mai to just confess her feelings can be seen as possessive itself. Chidori made it clear that she doesn't like the thought of someone else being in love with Nanoha. What better way to solve that than to force that person's feelings to have some amount of closure so they have no choice but to move on? (Though I don't think this interpretation is actually the case here. It's just a valid interpretation that counters your claims.)

And as others have repeatedly pointed out, Chidori understood that Mai wouldn't be able to properly move on without getting some closure for her feelings for Nanoha. So her actions are born from empathy from Mai's situation.

You seem to be trying to force the situation to adhere to your personal viewpoint which is why everyone's disagreeing with you. Your viewpoint doesn't agree with the actual facts of the situation.

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joined Jul 29, 2017

The Mai arc and the Igarashi arc make for a very interesting contrasting, almost balanced, pair. I’m still thinking through all the parallels/contrasts, but one that really jumps out of me is, however you read Igarashi’s character (and she sparked some of the most vigorous disagreements on this forum thread), neither self-criticism nor concern for the feelings of others were her strong points—quite the contrary.

But Mai has the opposite problem—she beats herself up about her feelings, and is overly concerned about burdening others, so much so that she has trouble accepting help from her teammates, and feels bad when the lit club girls are nice to her.

I think this series has done an exemplary job of combining drama (both the mildly serious drama in those two arcs and the mini-dramas of the mundane misunderstandings between Nanoha and Chidori) with large helpings of world-class yuri fluff (I still think the scenes of Chidori trying on glasses are just the cutest, and I could name a dozen more like that offhand).

last edited at Jun 12, 2020 9:08PM

Mask
joined Jan 6, 2015

I ended up really liking Mai, and I'm happy that she knows about our couple and they know she knows. It gives them another possible person to talk to about their relationship (though it'd no doubt be awkward as hell).
The manager girl really seems concerned about Mai, too. Some potential there!

Sarah of the Night
Kaijuislandfuruka2
joined May 12, 2020

nah. i say the day after tomorrow.

YuriIsLife1998
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joined Apr 25, 2019

You seem to be trying to force the situation to adhere to your personal viewpoint which is why everyone's disagreeing with you.

I'm certainly not trying to force the situation to adhere to my personal viewpoint. I'm just telling how the situation seem to me and my opinion and I'm totally fine with everyone's disagreeing with me. It just mean that I have different implications and opinions opposed to everyone here. Even I have different implication on some anime and manga, than I used to have when I was younger. Maybe I'll read this manga again in the future and maybe at that time, future me would have the different implication and different opinions than I currently have.

last edited at Jun 13, 2020 4:33AM

Setsuko2
joined Jan 20, 2014

You seem to be trying to force the situation to adhere to your personal viewpoint which is why everyone's disagreeing with you.

I'm certainly not trying to force the situation to adhere to my personal viewpoint. I'm just telling how the situation seem to me and my opinion and I'm totally fine with everyone's disagreeing with me. It's just mean I have different implications and opinions opposed to everyone here. Even I have different implication on some anime and manga, than I used to have when I was younger. Maybe I'll read this manga again in the future and maybe at that time, future me would have the different implication and different opinions than I currently have.

i half agree with you tbh. there are plenty of ways mai could move on without confessing. the whole thing was about her running away, and she DIDN'T need to confess to confront the truth. she was in love with nanoha, but nanhoa was already in a relationship, and very much in love. that's all she needed to know and accept, and move on. what she does from there is up to her. confessing is honestly quite pointless imo. obviously nanoha would reject her. everyone knew that. there was no "well maybe..." chance. BUT, a choice she did have, was to wait and hope. who is to say nanoha and chidori would be together for ever? if she confessed now, it's a definite no. but if they later break up, and mai still likes her, who's to say what her response would be then? although same could still be said even if she confesses and gets a no. could still try it again later. OR, accept that nanoha and chidori are together, and very happy, and move on. you don't have to get rejected by someone to do that.

although again another way to look at it is, instead of really being a confession, it was more of a goodbye for her love. the confession WAS her moving on. it's like when you tell someone you're angry with them. she was getting the emotions she had been burying for so long out, instead of bottling it up anymore. and maybe THAT'S why chidori encouraged her to do it. not for the confession, or to be fair, but she recognized the pain mai was in and knew she needed to get those emotions out of her. idk, it can go both ways imo.

but what WOULDN'T have been fair, was make chidori keep this huge secret. she is too honest and it would have eaten her up inside.

Prismaticowl2
joined May 5, 2020

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hana_ni_arashi_ch80#11

Chidori, you just got out of the bath, put on your PJs, and the only place you're going is to bed. Why on earth would you put that ankle bracelet back on? Really committing to the look, girl.

Profile160x160
joined Nov 20, 2014

This latest arc, and the end of the Mai-storyline, really made me fall in love with Chidori's character again. She's the type of person who's selfless to a fault, and as someone who's constantly accused of the same I so identify with her and love her all the more for it. She would help Mai find closure with her love even if she herself didn't like it, that takes some strength and courage most people wouldn't be able to muster.

Not to mention Mai's courage. Like people here have said, she keeps running away. She keeps holding on to the What-Ifs, Buts and Maybes that would allow her love to flourish in her own fantasy. Yet she keeps bashing herself over it, she keeps telling herself she shouldn't be doing this while at the same time being unable to let go. She would much rather suffer herself than try to get in the way of the happiness of the one she loves, that's strength! Yet she finally lets go of that for a moment, finally selfishly confessing in order to give herself closure. She know she will be rejected, because she know how much Nanoha and Chidori loves one another. It's closing a chapter in her own head, finally being able to throw the towel into the ring and being done with it. It takes courage to finally take the step to let go.

last edited at Jun 13, 2020 7:10AM

Ykn1
joined Dec 20, 2018

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hana_ni_arashi_ch80#11

Chidori, you just got out of the bath, put on your PJs, and the only place you're going is to bed. Why on earth would you put that ankle bracelet back on? Really committing to the look, girl.

It's not about the look. Remember.

Kanistorshik_octavia_portrait_wallpaper
joined May 9, 2011

Oh I remember when Mai first appeared. Everyone in this thread was up in arms, giving her all the hate in the world. Wasn't too long til the opinions changed and she became liked.
I just love how Mai's role was to suffer her feelings this whole time, that even her eyelashes were expressing tragedy. Best side character so far.

joined Dec 5, 2019

Be less obvious?!?! But you hardly ever kiss! If anything you should be more obvious!

(Forum drama? What forum drama? Haven't seen anything)

New%20dynasty%20reader%20profile
joined Oct 22, 2018

^ Ah, I see you too saw that there was an argument, but just skipped the comments that are part of it, just like me.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Be less obvious?!?! But you hardly ever kiss! If anything you should be more obvious!

I just re-read this whole series, and I think that one notable aspect of the created storyworld is that it works several different ways simultaneously in regard to perhaps its central theme—the “public” attitudes toward same-sex romantic relationships. The key element, of course, is the “secret” nature of Nanoha and Chidori’s love relationship.

This is best encapsulated by two contrasting examples:

  • Abe-chan and Yoshida-senpai (the two students whose offstage confession scene is simultaneous with the MCs’). Their relationship is seen as unusual enough to be remarked upon, but also within the bounds of possibility—the other girls immediately want to go “tease” them about it, which suggests that it’s somehow “normal”—if it were a real taboo, they would be horrified and not know how to act.

  • Igarashi’s response to learning about Nanoha and Chidori’s relationship—she’s astounded that such a thing is even possible, even though she herself has felt a same-sex attraction.

Now, this could be because Abe & Yoshida is accepted as a “Type S” girls’-school relationship, while Igarashi understands that N & C are seriously in love, which would be scandalous if publicly known.

Beyond that, a full re-read brings home just how commonly the larger group of friends indulges in highly flirty, non-romantic but quasi-sexual behavior—looking at boobs, touching, etc. Whenever Chidori and Nanoha’s romance threatens to reveal itself in public, it gets turned into a group thing, like the accidental “Love you” text that went to the whole group, when Chidori comforting Nanoha in fear of lightning becomes a group hug, etc.

The main point is that, while it’s a given in the group that Nanoha and Chidori are best-friends/partners, unless the observer is someone like Mai who already knows that they’re romantically involved and is keenly watching them looking for evidence, their everyday behavior just gets normalized by the girl’s-school touchy-feely ethos.

(In fact, Nanoha and Chidori’s behavior should be most suspicious to the other girls when they suddenly act guilty if they’re caught touching, if they suddenly scoot away from each other, etc.)

last edited at Jun 14, 2020 4:51PM

joined Jan 14, 2020

Man, I was enjoying this, but the Stormy School Trip drama seems soooo dumb. Nanoha's dumb. "I played at being angry and now she's angry and I'm scared and angry" even though it's ALL YOUR FAULT.

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