Foxy lady
Seju could've say no too, but end up naked with that bartender, in his arms. And yes, Sumin didn't intend to sleep with Seju that day. She went there with completely different reason. Seju used the opportunity and tricked her by using her guilt and weak heart, knowing Sungji was coming over. If I wanted to reach, I'd say there was alcohol involved and we all know how Sumin reacts to alcohol. All this, according to what you say, means Sumin did not cheat when in fact she did because as you said, she could've and should've say "no".
Seju had to invite the guy into her place and bed. Her security didn't stop her, which was pointed out by Sumin. Meaning, she had to know what she was doing. If she wasn't herself they would've never let the guy inside.

So you think me and Esoteric are the same person because what? We agree with each other and have similar pov at some point? Hm, in this case, are you and Nora the same person? Because you two have exactly the same pov.

I don't get the sleep part of your comment. I often say when I'm going to sleep or out so people won't feel ignored by me because I don't page catch if there're too many pages.

yoonie
I don't think 2 chapters are enough for Sumin to move on from Sungji back to Seju. We've seen her bad reaction when Sungji broke up with her before and I can't see Sumin doing the breaking, she's too deep.

hlama
You're forgetting the fact Seju had security who had to let the guy in. Do you really think they'd let him in with completely wasted Seju? Because I agree with what Sumin said about it - they would not.

@Izz

You don't always intent to cheat and you may still end up doing it. To me the case is clear - she cheated. So did Sumin (she had no intentions to do it).

I am sorry I have to disagree. Intentions must be established especially if it involved marriage annulment or divorced plus the question of assets, custody of children or any analogous circumstances.

Ok, last post before I go to bed. But really the last one. With this pov Sumin didn't cheat because she didn't intend to.

Foxy lady
Going to the bar, getting drunk and ending up in bed, naked, with a guy. Even yoonie said the cheating is clear. And I still don't think we'll go back to that event.

I dont say cheating is clear, I said her mistake is clear and if I put myself in Sumin's shoes, I could consider it a cheating. You omit my comment too much, btw, that's not my point.

Ok, point taken. So you could agree it wasn't a cheating. Well, I would not :) unless she was taken by force which can't be true because her guards let the guy inside.

And it's time for me to get some sleep.

Foxy lady
Going to the bar, getting drunk and ending up in bed, naked, with a guy. Even yoonie said the cheating is clear. And I still don't think we'll go back to that event.

I am reading before replying. So, if you did, you must have read that I did not agree in everything. I read everything before I reply. That means I consider her argument. The point of a "mistake" and "cheating" is a semantic issue for me. That is why I've said in infidelity, the intention/s must be established.

You don't always intent to cheat and you may still end up doing it. To me the case is clear - she cheated. So did Sumin (she had no intentions to do it).

Foxy lady
Going to the bar, getting drunk and ending up in bed, naked, with a guy. Even yoonie said the cheating is clear. And I still don't think we'll go back to that event.

last edited at Jun 14, 2017 12:33AM

Sumin is panting from ear licking too is that considered as sex?
Seju was in bartenders arms. And as I said, TG called it her mistake. So it did happen. Nothing ambiguous about it :P and nothing you say will make me change my mind :P

I can clearly see the point you are trying to make and i agree.

Are you 2 related Izz , Es0teric or the same person with different users ?

People define "cheating", or to be more specific (sex) in different ways. So, correct me if Im wrong, you guys seem to be from the group of people that defines sex as "Penetration", and "Penetration"only. Anything other than that is not ? O_o

cough so straight cough

No, we're not related.

Who brought Seju fingering Sumin as a prove that Sumin cheated on Sungji? ;) not me. Or Seju being cuddled by the guy instead of having sex? Not me again ;)

And by the way, TG said it was a mistake but she never said it was a sexual intercourse happened between both of them. Dont be too sure of your line of thoughts. Think of other possibilities, too.

The thing is it was her only mistake. And connected to the alcohol. I can't see TG talking about anything else - Seju stopped drinking afterwards.

Sumin is panting from ear licking too is that considered as sex?
Seju was in bartenders arms. And as I said, TG called it her mistake. So it did happen. Nothing ambiguous about it :P and nothing you say will make me change my mind :P

I can clearly see the point you are trying to make and i agree.

I'm pretty sure they see the point and maybe even agree with it, but they're trying to say there might've been a different point of view if it wasn't confirmed :)

She had both of her hands ON Sumin's pants the moment Sumin was pushing her off so to me it looks like she was opening her zipper, nothing else.

Do I need to quote TG's Q and A? The one you quoted here yesterday? :P

so, you saw Sumin's zipper open, and you saw her topless, you saw her kissing and panting.. that's not sex!
Sungji had no right to get angry.. what's wrong with Sungji !

you saw Seju just laying in bed next to the bartender, but that's absolutly sex, she even aborted the baby !

this is my last comment on the matter.. you lost €5,

Sumin is panting from ear licking too is that considered as sex?
Seju was in bartenders arms. And as I said, TG called it her mistake. So it did happen. Nothing ambiguous about it :P and nothing you say will make me change my mind :P

last edited at Jun 13, 2017 11:35PM

She had both of her hands ON Sumin's pants the moment Sumin was pushing her off so to me it looks like she was opening her zipper, nothing else.

Do I need to quote TG's Q and A? The one you quoted here yesterday? :P

last edited at Jun 13, 2017 11:27PM

^
well, you realise that I printed screen the PURE CLEAR picture of Sumin being fingered by Seju!
oh no, that's not sex !! where is the picture of the bartender actually doing the nasty on Seju ??!!!
if what Seju was doing to Sumin is not sex, then basically all gold star lesbians are virgins !
oh wait, did someone call me out somewhere ?? XDDD.. not yet ? where is the fun then

Huh? She has her pants on.
Seju and the bartender slept together, naked. And Seju admitted to it between the lines. Even TG called it her mistake so it did happen. There's nothing ambiguous about that to me.

last edited at Jun 13, 2017 11:19PM

If we assume Seju might've not cheat just because there might've been no sex then Sumin for sure didn't cheat because there was no sex.
Nope, that's not how it works. Going with this logic Sumin never tormented Seju because Seju agreed to it and wanted it.

I don't think we can judge her outburst on Sungji, she had a fever back then. She's showing signs of depression these days so she's not 100% herself either. I think the only pure childish behavior without any other stimulants was when she touched Sumin's leg in chapter 77. Other than that, she always appeared completely mature to me.

When you're sick, you have the right to be rude to the person who solely wanted to help you? It's ok to decline help other person is offering but in Seju's manner and situation Sungji and Seju are in, it called immature.

She had a high fever. Human brain is unable to think straight under high fever and if the fever is very high we can't remember what was going on around us. Happened to me once (40C when I was a kid) although I'm weak to fever in the first place and I sleep once my body temperature hits 38C. And yeah, I'll snap at anyone who disturbs my sleep at that time. It's the only thing I want to do.

Anyway, my point is, all three of them have their moments, from immature to mature. It's just that Seju is appearing to be calmer, more collected and more serious than the other two.

And this is the reason why I see her as a mature character. If TG would've showed her childish face more than once (wich can be taken as teasing) then my reading of her would've been different :)

She's both mature and childish and it's perfectly normal. So is Sungji. The only fully mature character is Seju.

Not sure i agree that Seju is fully mature : p

I think she is. Or at least the most mature. Sumin can literally act like a kid from time to time, never seen Seju do it ;) or maybe I can't remember. But I do see her as a mature character.

No, she is not. Examples for it is a lot. Her rude outburst to Sungji when she was sick. Her attitude at the beginning of the conversation this chapter. Her sensitive reactions the last chapter. Her-pride-is-too-high chilidish way.

Well, Sumin is cute and like a kid sometimes, Sungji too while Seju is always collected and calm. This is their appearance, not personalities.

I don't think we can judge her outburst on Sungji, she had a fever back then. She's showing signs of depression these days so she's not 100% herself either. I think the only pure childish behavior without any other stimulants was when she touched Sumin's leg in chapter 77. Other than that, she always appeared completely mature to me.

last edited at Jun 13, 2017 9:30PM

She's both mature and childish and it's perfectly normal. So is Sungji. The only fully mature character is Seju.

Not sure i agree that Seju is fully mature : p

I think she is. Or at least the most mature. Sumin can literally act like a kid from time to time, never seen Seju do it ;)

You should read up on Regression (Psychological). Granted it was a theory started by Freud who was a bit questionable, but interesting none the less as others have come up with their own theories behind it.

I think it's too severe and none of WTDFS characters are showing any signs of it ;) if you have a link to something based on Freud's definition then please, share, I'd love to read about it. But pure Freud's definition is too... hardcore.

She's both mature and childish and it's perfectly normal. So is Sungji. The only fully mature character is Seju.

Not sure i agree that Seju is fully mature : p

I think she is. Or at least the most mature. Sumin can literally act like a kid from time to time, never seen Seju do it ;) or maybe I can't remember. But I do see her as a mature character.

last edited at Jun 13, 2017 8:38PM

Sorry Sia ue if i don't discuss Depression with you anymore. I'll give you points for trying to understand it but that's all because i'm having a hard time believing you do understand it.

I am curious though, as you are a Sumin "fan" why does it feel like you do nothing to defend her? Why do you argue so much with the only two other people who actually show they like her?

I like Sumin because she is reasonable, mature, loyal, strong,... I can write a book defending her. You guys' Sumin is unreasonable, childish, depressed, weak, damaged, fragile,.... We are not on the same team.

She's not really strong. If she was, she'd break things up with Seju for good a long time ago. And she wouldn't let Seju onto her in the office when she was in a relationship with Sungji.
She's partially reasonable.
She's not depressed. She was 10 years ago when she's lost her parents. It's you who say she's using her depression to achieve something when it's not true. But you'll never understand it because you can't see the difference between depression and depressed state, they're both the same to you when in reality they're not. It's Seju who's starting to show signs of depression now, but somehow you never said she's using it to get what she wants...
She is damaged. But so is Seju. You can't not be damaged after everything they faced. The only not damaged character is Sungji.
She's both mature and childish and it's perfectly normal. So is Sungji. The only fully mature character is Seju.
She's a complicated character with many layers and this makes her the most interesting to me.

Yes, we do read her differently. But we don't read her the way you say we do.

Baek Brothers need to be taken care of, seriously... Put them all to jail...

As for the assassin, I think she meant Sumin being Seju's weakness.

I'm not interested in Dawoon at all. But I'd love to know more about Nami.

If I survived hiatus between each book of Legend of Korra, I can survive this one too ;)
Considering there're 3 spin-offs planned, I think we can get at least 3 chapters for each so 9 overall.

With spin-offs coming up this story is far from being done yet ;)

^That's reaching... But if we reach like this then Sumin didn't cheat on Sungji - there was no sex. And Sumin was unresponsive to Seju's actions. There was also alcohol, Sumin could've drink... ;)

come again ?!

http://imgur.com/a/oz8EF
XDDD

She could've been red from alcohol poisoning, she didn't kiss her back, hahaha. I know I'm reaching :P but I do it intentionally :)

^That's reaching... But if we reach like this then Sumin didn't cheat on Sungji - there was no sex. And Sumin was unresponsive to Seju's actions. There was also alcohol, Sumin could've drink... ;)

Why wouldn't she be able to hug Sungji? You don't need a weepy story to hug someone

You need a weepy story to hug me, you know? :'D

Oh my, lol. But still, hugging someone doesn't mean you seduced them ;) Sumin failed, she got comfort instead of sex.

^She got up and looked for the ring after she was pushed by Seju's harsh reaction.

I asked myself how would I react if I was in her shoes. Life experience put me through enough to know I'd be devastated.

Why wouldn't she be able to hug Sungji? You don't need a weepy story to hug someone and a hug isn't seduce...

imo, Sumin feeling depressed over her parents' death was not the kind of depression you and lzz have experienced. She well used her depression as an excuse to blame Seju for her parents' death. Also, later, she excellently used this depression of hers to seduce Sungji. If you guys' depressions can be used to accomplish things, then don't heal them, keep them with you forever since they sure are useful.

Nope, Sumin had a depression, it wasn't a depressed state. It's a huge difference. People who use "depression" as an excuse usually don't even have a depression, they are in a depressed state. Sumin didn't use her state. She was unable to live like a normal human being because she felt like her entire world ceased to exist. She became an orphan. She end up emotionally and physically drained after getting her parents bodies back. Try putting yourself in her shoes, ask yourself how would you feel.

People with depression can't control some parts of their lives. I never had a depression, my case is different, but I was in a state in which I couldn't control my body's reaction to unreasonable fear and panic so I understand their condition better than people who never had to deal with any of it.

And trust me when I tell you it's impossible to live and function in a society if you don't take care of your condition. People with real problem are trying to get better, but sometimes they need someone to push them. Seju's hard reaction was what pushed Sumin but unfortunately for both of them, Seju end up cheating.

Oh, and Sumin failed to seduce Sungji by using her sad story. She end up shocked by being comforted - something she needed all those years ago. It was a pleasant surprise for her, she liked it. So with this kind of logic, we could say Sungji seduced Sumin by treating her like a human.

last edited at Jun 13, 2017 2:44PM