queerturtle

life for Team Pink is hard when they have to debate with more simple-minded people

These days, life is hard for Team Pink regardless of them. (T^T)

But you know what really grinds my gear? It's not exactly the hate or "simple-minded" people. I mean, you choose who you like or dislike, and that's it, I have to deal with it. But some people just brush any argument of yours with mockery. You can't have any productive discussion with someone who disrespect your opinions like that.

Team Pink, Team Blonde, Team Rainbow, whatever you pick, if you enter in a discussion, please, just do it with class. I'm willing to discuss Seju with anyone, providing our discussion is taken serious by both sides. And that's Dynasty best point: most people here are classy.

last edited at Mar 31, 2016 7:55PM

I think I chose a bad timing for showing up...

But, damn, this thread is getting more interesting than WDTFS lol. From Fate/Stay Night to Voldemort and people grabbing popcorns.

put on a helmet I swear I'm just trying to break the ice

last edited at Mar 31, 2016 6:14PM

Thiaguinho-sama

Maaan, you finally appeared. I was about to scream for backup. lol
Sorry, people, but Team Pink needs all the forces these days

Yeah, I think dofudofu understood me better in the sense that life isn't cut and dry.

Besides, I didn't quiet understand the Loyalty part of the discussion. Is this just about being loyal to Team Pink even though Seju is morally wrong (considering she seems to have sabottaged the redhead and may in the future try to sabottage Sungji)? Honestly, it's indeed a tough call. I mean, I can support Seju, but she's a fictional character (makes that choice pretty much easier). And so far, she sabottaged the redhead who was two-timing Sumin. Please, I don't mean to say that doing wrong against the wrong makes one right (this thought is actually very disturbing). And just like Nami said, Seju chose to do it in the cruelest way possible and that is also very sick. I approve none of this actions. But that's the interesting part of Seju - being terribly honest about her "evil" side.

It may seem blind adoration or simple loyalty, but that's actually the opposite. Please, just don't misuderstand Team Pink; I believe most of us understand the issue of morailty in supporting Seju. I can only speak for myself now, but I actually have issues about morality (what defines right from wrong, and other issues), but that is just a very deep topic to explore in this moment.

Huh... I guess my post is actually uncalled in the moment. But I think someone had to make sure Team Pink don't get misunderstood as psycho.

sia ue

I don't think this is a relationship development. It's is more like a process of turning two saint characters into bad ones.

Don't get me wrong, I come in peace. But the concept of saint characters and evil ones is a bit naive for me. I know that some stories are clearly based in good x evil dynamic. But I hope that won't be the case in WDTFS. I know it's just a story and it doesn't need to be realistic. But in real life there are no saints or demons. You can argue that people will linger for one or the other, so that would define them. But I say living in that dichotomy is no fun. When it comes to morality, Seju (and maybe Nami) are now condemnable. But one may like their characters not for their actions, but for their whole story.

last edited at Mar 30, 2016 5:13PM

I think that Nami is just trying to get their relationship settled once and for all.

Thanks for the translation, Newp.

And I agree with you. I think Nami meant it when she said it's frustrating watching Seju waiting for Sumin. Nami is a perceptive character and she has her cunning ways. I also believe she has her hidden agenda, which is, in my opinion, to give Sumin and Seju's past relationship a proper closure and free Seju from that mess.

By sleeping with Seju and shoving it in Sumin's face, I think Nami wants to give Sumin a wake up call - so she may realize she can't take Seju for granted. Maybe then, Sumin would get the courage to face Seju and settle things once and for all. No running away or dismissing the other with passive-agressive behavior. How everything would play out is beyond my grasp. But I think Nami realized by now that the only way to fix the mess is by creating a bigger one.

One problem in this theory is to add Sungji on it. But maybe this will be the hardship in Sumin and Sungji relationship. It would end up exposing what Sumin wants to hide from Sungji so bad - her past relationships.

Azai

Not leaving Team Pink though. I'm stubborn as hell

Is there any reason to stay? Is there anything that Sungji cannot compare with Seju? Would you stay if Seju turned evil?

I guess I would stay in Team Pink (not in Team Rose Pink as we stablished xD), because I can relate to Seju. Not very easy to explain, I don't pity Seju for her past or her poor life choices. I just can relate to it.

Seju is the kind of character whose development is probably based on corruption - which is a common writing tool in villains characterization. It's easy and almost cheap, because it's simple to give a character a tragic background and try "justify" their bad actions. And I know that developing the hero is way more challenging. But as I said before, I simply like "weak" characters; I like those who screw up and are probably heading for a bad ending on their own accord.

And it doesn't mean I approve the actions of villains or think they are justified. If Seju turns evil and try to sabotage Sungji and Sumin's relationship, of course I will condemn her and no shit past will justify that. As things are going I've started to think that, yeah, Sumin and Seju aren't meant to be. But Seju is a tragic character and I happen to like it.

And the fact that I'm Team Pink doesn't mean I dislike Sungji or compare her to Seju. They are just different in everything - personality, background, actions. Comparing them is meaningless in my opinion.

Besides dofudofu pointed out something important, Seju's hot. Lol.

I have a bad feeling that they're going to make Seju the psycho villain...oh please prove me wrong.

Yeah, Seju sent very bad vibes in the latest chapter.

Life sure is hard in Team Pink. I just keep lowering my expectations:
- Seju and Sumin may end up together! Sungji appears
- Seju and Sumin may at least make up and be each other family. Seju sends psycho vibes
- Seju may heal and end up with Nami? more psycho vibes
- ... Ok. Just don't turn psycho.

Sigh... If things keep going like this, I will be expecting Seju to die in the end.
Not leaving Team Pink though. I'm stubborn as hell

Oh, I'm desperately waiting for the translation of the latest chapter. Either Seju is teasing Nami or she's going for it.

I think Seju got her wake up call at the end of chapter 45, realizing Sungji is different from the other women in Sumin's life. Maybe now Seju will go for sex to ease the turmoil that may be going on inside her.

Does anyone here thinks that maybe, just maybe, things will go like this: Nami and Seju will engage in a casual sex relationship, while Sumin and Sungji progress theirs. But then SuminxSungji enters some hardship, Sumin gets pretty hurt (since Sungji left her very vulnerable), goes for Seju for confort (either because she's drunk or very much broken), but walks in at Seju and Nami making out. Drama goes overboard, but Team Blonde and Blue are end game.

I leave the thread for a while and BAAAAM! Fifty shades of pink discussion is on.

Dark Pink is pretty suggestive, Hot Pink is good and Queen Pink was great haha (Team Pink radicals will all love that).

But I'm like Team Dark Pink at heart, Team Pink in mind, but Team Rainbow is all I really care to see in the end? Whatever, if I can only pick one, then I guess Team Pink...

maybe we should change Team Pink to be those who are just on Seju side and want her happy instead of wanting Seju x Sumin?

I wouldn't bother. Currently I'm more Team Seju than Team Pink anyway lol. Like, yeah, for me it would be lovely to see Sumin and Seju getting together somehow (I don't care how fucked up that would be). But that's not happening and that's fine. To be honest I even support Nam and Seju as long as that's well played in the series. In short, my ship can sink but Seju can't drown!

Thiaguinho-sama

Don't worry about it, it's not like we're going to get anywhere anyway, so don't worry about being part of the discussion or not.

Oh, I will definitely keep discussing Seju, because I like her. I only hope we can discuss other things rather than defending her, because that's kind of sad.

Well, don't want to reply the rest now, so does anyone else want to help dig my hole? Still embarassed because of my rousing speech... (T^T)

Don't be embarassed! Keep on the look out. If you rally, captain, I will answer! (｀_´)ゞ
For now, I will come back to my sinking ship

Faylicia

I hope you didn't get my post personally. Like for real. I knew you could relate to some parts of my post, hence I mentioned I wasn't talking about you. I've read your texts here and they are pretty ok for me. You always made sure to state that everything you said was your point of view and, like you said, it's just personal preference. Believe me, you don't belong to the group of people who bothers me at all.

last edited at Mar 25, 2016 10:09PM

Geez, my attempt on making a rousing speech is so embarassing, guess it's time to dig my own hole to hide (T^T)

Huh... I... I don't want to sound mean, but I could help you dig your hole. lol. Don'tg get me wrong, It isn't like I don't want to answer your call to arms.

I do think we should discuss Seju, because there's a lot of hate going on about her. And what bothers me isn't the fact that people are attacking my favorite character - it's just a story anyway. What really bothers me is that people so easily judged Seju - calling her whore, cheater, clingy and so on. And it's a shame a character gets so much hate for her actions; it honestly bothers me that someone gets to be so easily judged and doesn't get the chance to repent in their eyes.

In short, it really bothers me having to defend Seju, because that shouldn't be necessary. It bothers me having to say again and again that it's ok to make mistakes; it's ok to feel at loss and screwing things up and then regreting and trying to make it better again. It bothers me having to defend someone for being human. It bothers me to say it's ok being pathetic, because fuck it, you're making a fool of yourself but you're cool with it, because that's your call and your choice and maybe your tragedy.

There are some posts here I get ashamed of, because it just sounds so damn hypocrite and, surprisingly, naive. They seem to believe in manichaeism - all that good and bad dichotomy - and automatically place Seju as an antagonist, since they think she is potentially a threat to Sumin and Sungji (this is not specifically about you, Faylicia). And Sumin is a saint in their eyes, for being perfect and all that fangirl stuff. BUT as far as I observed, those people are actually a minority here and that's the reason why I joined the discussion. I wouldn't see a point in discussing Seju with people who still haven't experienced life or who can't at least try to view it through her shoes. Unfortunately, understanding is only possible with a certain level of perception.

So I actually just laugh it off when someone comes with all their hate. Yeah, sometimes they get on my nerves. But their close-mindedness is just a turn off and I rather stay on my bubble looking for people who are actually interesting to talk to. Which this forum is plenty of.

Anyway, even though you're rousing speech was amusing, I think all the discussion about Seju and her importance is getting old. Those who hate her will probably keep at it no matter how much we try to argue. It's just tiring. In my opinion Seju and Sumin relationship is at focus in the story and Seju is just as important in the story as Sungji and Sumin. Problem is people who dislike her won't see her role in the story like Team Pink do, because it's all about the perception of the reader. I say all this and I confess I probably do the same regarding Sungji; I don't dislike her, but I do find her boring. So maybe that's why I can't see any potential development in her character. We are all a little biased in the end anyway.

And I ended up babbling again... Well, I may defend Seju whenever hate starting spreading, but I hope it won't be necessary. I prefer to talk about theories and predictions for future chapters hehe.

last edited at Mar 25, 2016 9:17PM

Also, come on Team Pink, people are talking about Seju and I'm the only one defending her?

Team Pink reinforcement on the way!

I may not be able to convey all the opinions written here, since I left the forum for a while and when I came back there were this many posts... But I will try to express my thoughts on Seju.

Seju is a pathetic fool: Yep. And that's why she's, in my opinion, a great character. Because humans are pathetic fools. It's easy to deem someone like Seju as pathetic; no one with a sane mind would wait 10 years for someone to come back. So you guys pointed out right. Seju isn't exactly sane. Is she obsessed, simply broken or something more? We can only infer for now. But one thing I consider is simply the fact that Seju has only known love from Sumin. I can only relate to a certain extent. When my parents kind of distanced themselves from me in a moment of my life, it hurt like hell. But no matter what crap they would throw at me back then, it never made me really give up on them. Maybe I was just a fool, but I would wait and get hurt and try again until they finally accepted me. I could never walk away from them. So Seju can't really let go of the person who loved her and who she loved in return. Would you call it obsession? Maybe. But there's more to it than a simple obsession.

Seju is just passively waiting while wishing for Sumin's relationship to fail: Honestly, I think this is up to the reader. Most of you agree that she's passive and I agree to a certain extent. But waiting for 10 fucking years isn't for the weak of heart. She quit drinking; she didn't fool around with other women. She didn't distract herself from her heartache. Yes, Seju was passive as she didn't fight back for Sumin. But she stood still like a stone and refused to move on. I think that's a choice of hers and I respect that. Maybe she's just chained to the emotional dependency of Sumin and thus she is passive for not trying to fight that. But maybe it's just her stubborn choice and she will accept the pain that will come with it. Don't forget Seju lines in chapter 27 - "She will be mine again". Again, it's up to the reader for now. Some will think of it as obsessive behavior; some will see emotional dependency, some will see a choice.

And regarding Seju's wish for Sumin's relationship to fail. I agree that's never really expressed, though I infered that anyway. I just don't think that's pretty bad. I mean, that stuff of wishing your loved one to be happy, I know that's what people should do. And I don't want to justify Seju, but wishing your loved one back is the natural thing. It may be unhealth, selfish and cruel. But some people can't really care for that. Sometimes we are just too afraid, too desperate of losing someone. Sometimes we can't see our life without someone. So we keep that small hope that they will come back; that they will realize their happiness is with us.

Huh... I wrote too much and, honestly, I don't think it will add much to the forum. For now, most of the things can only be infered. I can see most people kind of understand Seju's side; but somehow it feels like true empathy is still lacking. Or some still think she is annoying for representing some sort of threat to Sungji and Sumin relationship. I know it is all about taste and all, but for those who enjoy drama and mature plot, the fact that Seju was added to the story definetely was a great decision. And I won't even talk about whether Seju is important or not to the story: Team Gaji gave Seju a detailed background, added flashbacks about Sumin and Seju; added 2 whole chapters in Seju's point of view. No author would ever waste his time in that if not for a reason.

Anyway, sorry for babbling, but wobbie Seju was under attack lol.

last edited at Mar 25, 2016 7:05PM

Wow, that was a good discussion about the tattoo. And special thanks to Thiaguinho-sama.

I didn't remember Sumin had said the name of that flower. I can't believe I let that pass and didn't look for the meaning of it.

And it really makes sense the winter/spring transition theory. It's just kind of sad to think she has been stuck in a winter for ten years. Because I think spring has come with Sungji. Not that Sungji herself represents the new beginning, but she's the one that will stir Sumin's life.

Though I would like the meaning behind the flower to be the one that Martian mentioned "it's never too late to make amends" hehe.

last edited at Mar 20, 2016 10:36AM

I do hope that it's explained why she chose the yellow flowers, she really doesn't seem like the type to just decide to have that, but maybe that was the only thing that would cover the scars well? I doubt it represents Sungji because why would she get a tattoo that represents someone she never even met at the time?

I meant the flowers could have a hidden meaning about the plot, like some sort of hint dropped by the authors. But, yeah, like someone said recently not everything an author puts in a story has to have a meaning. It's just that I like to imagine things like that. Anyway, I guess I should keep crazy ideas for me.

Huh, considering I've just joined this forum recently, I'd like to know if you guys/girls have ever discussed a possible symbolism behind Sumin's tattoo.

Sumin covered the scars with yellow flowers. And, I don't know, but Sumin seems the type of person who would go for any other color, like black or red flowers, but, like, yellow? In the first place, that's not a very common color for a tattoo -it isn't very aesthetic considering skin color... Sooo, could the tattoo actually symbol the fact that a certain graceful blonde will take the place that once belonged to Seju?

I want to cry, because I keep pulling my ship down! (T^T)

Sel
I hope you get banned ! Your comments clearly says that you'r a troll ..girl this fourm is filled with team pink you dont want to mess with us or things will get ugly ..we like seju and take her side cuz we want to every one has its own opinion who are you to speak Low about us this cheating thing has been talked about 100 of time so grow up will you !? Every one on this fourm even team blonde is level headed ppl clearly you are not , what are you like 12 ?!

Like for real. When Sel suddenly jumps up in this forum, she just became someone incredibly annoying. I mean, everybody is level headed here and respects everybody's opinions and ships. We don't need someone like her here

Is... Is that bitter kid gone? Lol. At first I was like "who are you to dare disrupt our peaceful forum?" (#｀へ´) And then her posts became even more pitiful - it did sound like she was cheated on. Anyway, I hope we can maintain this forum without hatred and bitterness. I got a little worried Sel's appearance could start a nasty war.

You guys, don't you find Sungji, even for a bit, sketchy ?? Especially with that WDTFS' slogan "Love is Blind"? Or maybe it's just me acting crazy for noticing that.

Wait, you mean sketchy as shady? (Sorry, English isn't my native language). If that's so, well, I think "Love is Blind" applies to the plot in general. Like Sungji falling for Sumin without knowing her background yet; Seju still loving Sumin after all they have gone through.

But if Sungji reveals herself to be "sketchy", now that would definitely be a very shocking plot twist. LOL. Unlikely to happen though, I mean, Sungji is just a cinnamon roll!

I just said I thought Sungji was a tiny bit weird. She has outbursts of emotions but she is calm apart from those occasions. I think 'love is blind' doesn't mean that Sungji will do something bad but I think Sungji is a bit more calculative than you might think. Not calculative as a person in general just simply planning things a bit more than she might have you thinking. When she was mad at Sumin she tried to be calm and started giving her the cold shoulder. On the one hand it was because she was not feeling like being all sweet when she was mad but on the other hand I think she was trying to get a reaction out of her. Since the beginning she seemed like a person who thinks a lot but at the same time does impulsive things.

I had already understood your point, Faylicia. For real. :) I think most of Team Pink here expects that Sungji develops the way you expressed. It's just that for now, we didn't get to see her thoughts and that bugs most of us. But after KitKat101's statement I couldn't help but think "what if we are all worried Seju will turn psycho, and than BAAAM, Sungji turns psycho?". Blame it on my useless mind. I know that's not happening, but I just thought KitKat101 post too amusing (in a good way) to let it be. Lol.

last edited at Mar 17, 2016 6:25PM

You guys, don't you find Sungji, even for a bit, sketchy ?? Especially with that WDTFS' slogan "Love is Blind"? Or maybe it's just me acting crazy for noticing that.

Wait, you mean sketchy as shady? (Sorry, English isn't my native language). If that's so, well, I think "Love is Blind" applies to the plot in general. Like Sungji falling for Sumin without knowing her background yet; Seju still loving Sumin after all they have gone through.

But if Sungji reveals herself to be "sketchy", now that would definitely be a very shocking plot twist. LOL. Unlikely to happen though, I mean, Sungji is just a cinnamon roll!

I was also confused too. The first thing came to my mind was that Seju must be a masochist. :D

I think perhaps Seju decided to make Sumin hate her because she didn't have any hope that Sumin would ever love her again. Some people said "Love and Hate are bedmates." Loving or Hating can produce conflicts, fear, and uncertainty. Seju might want to put Sumin in a situation such that "I hate you so much because of how vulnerable I am to you. How I can let you control my feelings? And, I feel I've lost control."

Or because Seju knew that Sumin wanted to love and be loved, but didn't want to be hurt again, she decided to give Sumin a relationship in which Sumin could keep one foot in the water, and the other safely out, on the sand. This relationship could keep Sumin protected. Like she said "In a relationship we don't need to break up. Being side by side with no reason to get hurt." If Sumin kept hating her, then they could still be in this kind of relationship; dissatisfied, but protected.

Yeah, those are good possibilities too. I like the fact that Seju's character is portrayed in a way that shows some of her deep thoughts, but with some ambiguity to them. It manages to keep her interesting. I'm only afraid the authors will leave it like that, never really making it clear enough.

I'm also afraid the authors end up losing track of the story. Like, that scene in which we see Seju's first monologue about Sumin always coming back - the one in which Seju finds Sumin resting in Sungji's lap. We never saw the scene after it and it makes me so curious. Maybe that scene is very important and it will be revealed in future chapters, since it may contain some important conversation between Sungji and Seju. But if the authors just leave it there like a loose end, I will never get over it lol.

^ I don't really mind Seju/Nami pairing as long as it's done nicely. Seju is so in love and obsessed with Sumin that I can't see her hook up with Nami that easily. To be fair, Nami is the only one who can get under her skin. She wasn't even ruffled by her family anymore but Nami seems to be able to annoy the heck out of her lol.

About the chapter, I don't quite understand Seju's thoughts though. She said she wanted Sumin to come back, but in the last pages, she said she wants her to suffer more so that everytime she comes back to her, Sumin will hate her?? I didn't know she's such a masochist. And why would she wish that Sumin will hate her, shouldn't she like hope that Sumin will come back to love her? Either she's got such a massive self-loathing going on or Sumin doesn't really hate her(that's why she's wishing for Sumin to hate her??) but can't forgive her all the same and Seju wants to repent for her sins so much. I dunno I'm lost.

I was also confused by Seju's thought in this chapter and I ended up thinking almost like you.

Like, maybe Seju hates herself so much for making that dumb mistake that she feels she deserves Sumin's hatred; it could be that for hurting Sumin in the past, Seju thinks she deserves being hurt by Sumin too. In this way, Seju could be looking to repent herself.

Or Seju knows that Sumin can't let go of her, because deep down Sumin can't really hate Seju enough. So maybe despite all her love, Seju wishes Sumin could hate her for real and never come back. Maybe that way, both of them would be free of a relationship that never got a proper closure and still haunts both of them.

Or... Seju is so fucked up that she would rather be hated than ignored and forgotten by the person she loves. Just like someone said a while ago, the only love Seju ever received was from Sumin, which makes her hold it too dear to be able to let go. It can sound crazy and obsessive, but maybe in Seju's mind the opposite of love isn't hate, but apathy.

There could be other explanations, but I could only think on those three. What makes me sad is that in all of those possibilities, Seju remains a pitiful person. And I really don't like feeling pity for anyone.

STOP! No one is allowed to hurt this poor baby anymore! tucks Seju under the blanket T_T

Now this chapter was heart wrecking. I agree that even if both Sumin and Seju have their happy ending, Seju's may be bittersweet. Because it's easier for Sumin. She got pretty hurt, grew cold and somewhat jerk, but managed to find a potential love. For Sumin, Seju may end up being a distant memory, a scar that won't matter anymore. Seju, however, will live with the fact that she hurt the person she loved and lost her for it. If any of you ever hurt someone you loved pretty bad, you know Seju's scar will always ache a little.

And about Seju inside the car in the last chapter, it did sent me some obsessive vibes. I'm still hoping we won't see Seju clinging to Sumin and being all psycho. I mean, Seju managed to be such a lady so far. I do want to see her break down though. I want Seju to let it all out, because she just keeps tolerating all that stuff.

Also 'innocent' characters like that really give a positive feeling and hopeful message to the reader so I think they are important. Besides, Sumin is pretty much becoming good-natured right now.

Oh, I get your point. And don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those people who thinks villains are cool and good-natured characters are lame. I just really, really like when people are honestly human, you know, with all their flaws and madness.

But I do get that Sungji, maybe to fulfill her role to heal Sumin, must be "innocent" in this series. Her "innocence" is a must so that Sumin trusts her and put her walls down. But I do hope this will not be enough, because just as MacySan stated, I don't believe a good person is so refreshing to the point of changing someone for the better. In this sense, I believe to heal Sumin, Sungji and Sumin would have to develop as a couple. And by that I mean both of them would have to accept each other's flaws. Sumin has hers and I do think they will come up eventually in the series. Sungji may have hers too and I hope we see them (but I have this feeling that she will only be victimized). Again, WDTFS may not be about building solid relationships, but rather about moving on. Either way, the series managed to get my attention, so I will keep with it.

In my opinion, the issue regarding Sungji's character isn't about maturity. Actually, Sungji seems more mature than Sumin and Seju sometimes. She's introspective and don't run away from her problems. She's honest and strong. But she's way too innocent. And the problem is I don't think she will ever develop in that sense. I mean, other characters all have some bad side about them, something that can make them detestable:

• Sumin: hurt Seju intentionally out of revenge and kept coming back to her whenever her relationships didn't work, even though she knew Seju was still in love with her. BUT we also see a side of Sumin that cares about Sungji enough to wait and make sure she won't hurt her.

• Seju: resents her family and even her mother - who she wishes to be in hell in a point of the series for "irresponsibly dying" on her birth; MAY be cunning since childhood (I know many of you wont agree with this) and cheated on the person who taught her what love is. BUT Seju stubbornly waited ten years for Sumin to come back, because she has faith in her love.

• Nam: states proudly that she uses people to go up in her career. But is perceptive enough to realize cold-spoiled-rich pink haired woman isn't so strong and offers her a hand even though she is constantly turned down.

What about Sungji? She doesn't have a "dark side". Team Gaji may develop her character in many ways, but I doubt it will ever be in the sense of showing some selfish or violent side of her. Sungji will probably develop as a victim, getting hurt but being strong enough to forgive.

I get she's still young and a late-bloomer. But it's kind of unreal that someone her age doesn't have at least some flaw; something that makes her incredible for - despite having a bad side, selfish thoughts or irresponsible mistakes - being able to be a good person too. Sungji lacks this kind of complexity. I'm her age. I get that some people may lack romantic experience; but she lacks more than that, which makes her a cute but somewhat boring character to me.

last edited at Mar 10, 2016 6:16PM