Forum › Bloom Into You discussion

9b1d0703-1cf0-4df6-bc19-0b2abfd56881
joined Nov 23, 2015

None of this is evidence that Touko was actually “contemplating suicide,” and as it turns out, some people at the time (no doubt influenced by the long tradition of Tragic Lesbians in popular culture generally and yuri manga specifically) were indeed overreacting, but there’s certainly enough death/finality verbal and visual imagery to be a bit unsettling.

They say that “two may be coincidence, three is a pattern,” and IIRC, we don’t have three. So readers at the time may have been overreacting to Touko’s personal crisis, but they weren’t making things up out of whole cloth either.

I was going to go through this point by point addressing why each one of these doesn't mean what some people took them to mean, but I feel like that wouldn't really fairly address your point. Yeah, I can understand why people read it that way. I still think they were wrong about their interpretations of those things, and when you take them within the larger context and tone of the manga, I think it's silly to harbor any actual fear of Nakatani sensei going there. NOW I think there's no real justification for being wary about a suicide ending. Touko is more stable and healthy than she's ever been, she has goals and interests beyond Yuu and emulating her sisters, she's closer to finding herself, she just hasn't figured out romance yet.

I also think western culture is way too enamored with suicide as a component in romance. Romeo and Juliet was not a romance, dammit!

I did want to address some cultural points in this one, though:

  • Chapter 23: opens with Touko standing in a graveyard, and the first scene ends with her question, “And then . . .where can I go?”

The last scene begins with Touko smelling the obon incense just as she enters the train station, and then she repeats her previous question, “But what happens after the play is over? . . . Where . . Can I go?” (A rather more bleak formulation than, for example, “What should I do then?”) And visually there’s both the blank space in the distance and the sign reading, “Non stop to final destination.”

Chapter 23 is very much about Touko's uncertainty about what she's going to do after the play, But that isn't about thoughts of suicide, we're inside her thoughts throughout that chapter, and "what then?" is always framed as an open question. She's on a path, that path is close to it's end, and she doesn't know what she's going to do then. Her relationship with her dead sister is foremost in her actions through all of this, so it starts with her visiting her sister's grave, Hence the graveyard scene) and is bookended near the end with Mio visiting her (The smell of incense, after the time spent reminiscing about her with Sayaka) Her ruminations about what to do after the play are then interrupted by the text from Yuu, which symbolizes that Yuu is her way out of the quagmire. (This itself is later bookended by Yuu's "it's time to change trains". When you reach the end of the line? You change trains. Goddamn I love this series.)

I doubt any actual japanese person would interpret these cues in any way that hints at Touko having thoughts of suicide. Trains are a common part of everyday life, and Obon is a part of their culture and a regular ritual for reconnecting with and remembering passed loved ones.

Agreed, I just saw it as a culture thing. A lot of anime had used trains as metaphor of going on a journey of self discovery or that fork on the "life road" to discover themselves. As much as Nio sensei and the directors love to play on metaphors, I think sometimes we're just over playing it. ;)

And the Obon scene, I see it also as Touko reporting to her sister of how she is doing and kind of asking her if it's okay to move on from you now (or telling her she'll be doing it anyways). It's kinda like a conclusion of her to her sister that this is the last time I'll be here to see you as the way I'm now, this is goodbye. Even though I don't know what's going to happen next. I'll be moving on from you and I should be okay? (with uncertainty but she wanted a conclusion/finish of sort I feel)

P.S. As I just remembered, I did mention before that the art style/coloring and the dusk colors of the opening animation can be made into a horror/depressing opening with just a different music. lol. So yea suicide ideas from fans definitely understandable (especially of Yuri tragedy history).

last edited at Jan 3, 2019 9:04PM

11av3
joined May 28, 2018

In the end I don't care about romance and I mostly don't care who will be with whom, but I want Yuu to be happy. Touko happiness is out of my concern and Sayaka is nice, but same. I hope that Nakatani-sensei is able to write a reassuring end for main character Yuu. And I want new chapter with her already!

last edited at Jan 4, 2019 1:12AM

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

If people refuse to accept possible triple (polyamory) ending (not treesome in sexual way, to be clear here), what about possibility Sayaka pairing with a lady from a cafe? (can't remember her name now)...

Hakozaki sensei, she already brings insecurity in her partner from time to time, and she is pretty vague in her feelings about their relationship, not to forget to mention the fact that she didn't say anything about contacting a guy from a theater (it's not clear why).
But cafe lady, she does not seem "paranoid"...It's more like sensing something (a 6th sense? potential troubles? sensing Hakozaki as half-hearted?)

Personally observing, Sayaka would fit with an older woman (her adoration for authority she found in Touko shows it). And there is already some connection between those two (Sayaka and cafe lady).

joined Jul 26, 2016

If people refuse to accept possible triple (polyamory) ending (not treesome in sexual way, to be clear here), what about possibility Sayaka pairing with a lady from a cafe? (can't remember her name now)...

Hakozaki sensei, she already brings insecurity in her partner from time to time, and she is pretty vague in her feelings about their relationship, not to forget to mention the fact that she didn't say anything about contacting a guy from a theater (it's not clear why).
But cafe lady, she does not seem "paranoid"...It's more like sensing something (a 6th sense? potential troubles? sensing Hakozaki as half-hearted?)

Personally observing, Sayaka would fit with an older woman (her adoration for authority she found in Touko shows it). And there is already some connection between those two (Sayaka and cafe lady).

I'm seriously failing to see how do you figure this would be any better, or more palatable.

Jo
joined Jan 1, 2019

I have a real unwanted feeling that this will have an outcome similar to that of Aoi Hana (not that it was bad, just didn't like it). The characters are, slightly, going to evolve and end up going their separate ways finding their own happiness. That's my prediction anyway, doubt there will be a 'coupled' ending. Still love this series though.

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

If people refuse to accept possible triple (polyamory) ending (not treesome in sexual way, to be clear here), what about possibility Sayaka pairing with a lady from a cafe? (can't remember her name now)...

Hakozaki sensei, she already brings insecurity in her partner from time to time, and she is pretty vague in her feelings about their relationship, not to forget to mention the fact that she didn't say anything about contacting a guy from a theater (it's not clear why).
But cafe lady, she does not seem "paranoid"...It's more like sensing something (a 6th sense? potential troubles? sensing Hakozaki as half-hearted?)

Personally observing, Sayaka would fit with an older woman (her adoration for authority she found in Touko shows it). And there is already some connection between those two (Sayaka and cafe lady).

I support this idea as much as I used to support the idea of Oppia winning the Great Gomic War in the Famana series: NOT AT ALL.

EDIT:
If you're into histories of fictional worlds, then Famana is just the series for you. The last episode is gonna premiere today around 23h, Jerusalem mean time (yes, this time I'm going with the timezone of the guy who makes the series, rather than my timezone).

You, neighbor from Montenegro, now is not clear which idea you don't support (triple vs couple ending), or pairing Sayaka with Cafe Lady? Or it's same for you.

What is so scorning there for you calling our ideas and free expressing our thoughts and personal views, pompously "fictional"? Who do you think you are to speak with us in such shameful "tonality"? If you feel yourself higher above, there are more intelligent ways to show it than expressing scorn without any good arguments . Your current behavior is just proving the lack of intelligent talk. Skill with words, it obviously exists, but lacking nobility and good taste, you have plenty of skill and quantity will not replace quality. So change your style if you want to be truly impressive. Friendly advice, dear neighbor.

last edited at Jan 4, 2019 6:23AM

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

Why our posts are going double? Yes, we are duality, "two abstract me in her body", but why it must come out here in doubled posts???

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

If people refuse to accept possible triple (polyamory) ending (not treesome in sexual way, to be clear here), what about possibility Sayaka pairing with a lady from a cafe? (can't remember her name now)...

Hakozaki sensei, she already brings insecurity in her partner from time to time, and she is pretty vague in her feelings about their relationship, not to forget to mention the fact that she didn't say anything about contacting a guy from a theater (it's not clear why).
But cafe lady, she does not seem "paranoid"...It's more like sensing something (a 6th sense? potential troubles? sensing Hakozaki as half-hearted?)

Personally observing, Sayaka would fit with an older woman (her adoration for authority she found in Touko shows it). And there is already some connection between those two (Sayaka and cafe lady).

I support this idea as much as I used to support the idea of Oppia winning the Great Gomic War in the Famana series: NOT AT ALL.

EDIT:
If you're into histories of fictional worlds, then Famana is just the series for you. The last episode is gonna premiere today around 23h, Jerusalem mean time (yes, this time I'm going with the timezone of the guy who makes the series, rather than my timezone).

What is so scorning there for you calling our ideas and free expressing our thoughts and personal views, pompously "fictional"? Who do you think you are to speak with us in such shameful "tonality"? If you feel yourself higher above, there are other ways to show it than expressing scorn without any good arguments . Your current behavior is just proving the lack of points. Skill with words, it obviously exists, but lacking nobility and good taste, you have plenty of skill, but quantity will not replace quality. So change your style if you want to truly be impressive. Friendly advice, dear neighbor.

I'm NOT calling your ideas fictional, I just remembered a "history of a fictional world" type of series because I used something from it as comparison (kinda). Or, rather, I compared my support for what was back than a possible prospect to my support for this prospect you gave albeit, I still don't really understand if what you predicted was a Sayaka x Miyako ending or a Sayaka x Miyako x Riko ending, but I don't support that anyway...

Sorry, we did not see your answer.
It was idea about possible Sayaka x Miyako ending. It's just a possibility (depends on development of relationship Hakozaki x Miyako)

Other idea is Yuu x Touko x Sayaka, those three are made for each other. It's just our personal opinion. We did not ask for supports or not supports, just sharing our personal view.

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

If people refuse to accept possible triple (polyamory) ending (not treesome in sexual way, to be clear here), what about possibility Sayaka pairing with a lady from a cafe? (can't remember her name now)...

Hakozaki sensei, she already brings insecurity in her partner from time to time, and she is pretty vague in her feelings about their relationship, not to forget to mention the fact that she didn't say anything about contacting a guy from a theater (it's not clear why).
But cafe lady, she does not seem "paranoid"...It's more like sensing something (a 6th sense? potential troubles? sensing Hakozaki as half-hearted?)

Personally observing, Sayaka would fit with an older woman (her adoration for authority she found in Touko shows it). And there is already some connection between those two (Sayaka and cafe lady).

I'm seriously failing to see how do you figure this would be any better, or more palatable.

What exactly? "Triple" case (Yuu x Touko x Sayaka), or Sayaka x Miyako?

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Why our posts are going double? Yes, we are duality, "two abstract me in her body", but why it must come out here in doubled posts???

Usually it’s because you hit “Create Post” twice, often when the post doesn’t appear to be loading when you click the first time.

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

Why our posts are going double? Yes, we are duality, "two abstract me in her body", but why it must come out here in doubled posts???

Usually it’s because you hit “Create Post” twice, often when the post doesn’t appear to be loading when you click the first time.

Uh, but we didn't, maybe just pressing longer, then? Or if more tabs of Dynasty are open in same time? (because when we turned them off, if stopped)

Thank you for explanation anyway. If it happens again, we'll figure out what was exactly.

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

@HayaH
Why are you referring to yourself in first person plural, rather than first person singular please don't tell me it's that communist meme.

Which communist meme do you refer?

Our reason is personal, not meme, our philosophy of life complicated to explain. Shortly said, we feel us as dual. One side of us is Baby Angel, other side is Tremendous Angel. Who people will meet, depends on them. We don't recommend meeting with Tremendous Angel to no one.

We respect our both sides equally, so we express us through plurality.
There are many other manifestations of duality, some people are genderfluid, some are bisexual, etc.
We express ourselves as trio (three different entities in one), two of us (our both sides) in marriage in one body (compare it with Holy Trinity, it's allowed).
We are married with our body. An inner polyamory relationship (something like mind x body x soul).
We are self sufficient. That's why we think triple Yuu x Touko x Sayaka would work better than couple ending. Speaking from perspective of our joyful inner trio, triad, trinity.
When we thought that we were single, or in discordance with our body, we were unhappy. Our "third party" was repressed.
Not anymore. Nor we'll be unhappy ever!
Life is full of mysteries, and wonderful surprises! Just embracing it is required. An open mind.

Edit: To add, we think that answers are inside of everyone of us.
There are three forms of life on the Earth, males, females, and human beings (any mixture of genders and sexes, like man-woman in body of male or female, genderfluid or transgender, depends on how many feel themselves).

last edited at Jan 4, 2019 7:32AM

9a905fe6a22b0201f7ade2de48a73f8d
joined Jan 22, 2014

Actually, if the play really WAS meta, then Touko would DEFINITELY end up with Sayaka, since she ends up with her in the play as well.

The only ever polyamory ending in normal manga, that I can remember is in Honeymoon Salad. It's really tricky to get that kind of ending right (outside of hentai, that is), and it can undermine the believability of the entire series. I seriously doubt that we well see that here.

Well, Touko will choose Yuu (or she had already chosen her from the very first chapter), but I really like what ifs. Sooo, if not Touko, than how about Sayaka+Akari? They can heal each other's broken heart...

Img_0053
joined Sep 19, 2017

Tbh, i’m kinda confused w/ the rest of the comments. Sorry.

Anyway, Sayaka & Miyako? Lol. No.

As reader, I prefer Miyako as a mentor for her, to guide her. Besides, no sign of Riko-sensei regretting her choice being with Miyako. Hell, she can spend her life “testing out” their relationship all her life, until they get old and their hair turns to gray. Lol.

If I could imagine story about Sayaka, I kinda want that “someone” from Sayaka’s past to return. No not the senpai. That someone before her senpai.

And above post: Sayaka & Akari? Akari definitely straight imo. She probably end up w/ Doujima-kun, well from the looks of it...

last edited at Jan 4, 2019 8:14AM

4bbe1078a9d82bf519de9e5fc56dee60
joined Feb 18, 2018

Actually, if the play really WAS meta, then Touko would DEFINITELY end up with Sayaka, since she ends up with her in the play as well.

She does? I thought she ended up on her own, going on to figure out her life.

45146235_746277355746718_170304489897590784_n
joined Dec 19, 2016

I like where this things are going, both competitor have enough background/reason to love Touko.
I just hope that this series don't last for too much chapters, like, say, citrus. Fucking cancer

Eivhbyw
joined Aug 26, 2018

For crying out loud, people pretend they see the deeper meaning of imagery, but then interpret the superficial idea of "suicidal" into it... That would be the obvious metaphor rather than the deep one and thus wrong.
It's like when people see the tarot card Death XIII and think it means literally death. It's about a new journey.

You're right I guess… rather than "arrogant" I should have said "disrespectful", in that it shows a lack of trust in people she knows. That's also what Sayaka means by "Don't look down on me."

Yeah I can definitely see that.


PS: Just saw that ridiculous new polyamory suggestion. Come on, just pairing up characters for the sake of having them paired up is terrible writing and not something Nakatani would do. There is sooo much wrong with thinking wedging Sayaka into the adult pair makes any sense.

last edited at Jan 4, 2019 8:35AM

9a905fe6a22b0201f7ade2de48a73f8d
joined Jan 22, 2014

Actually, if the play really WAS meta, then Touko would DEFINITELY end up with Sayaka, since she ends up with her in the play as well.

She does? I thought she ended up on her own, going on to figure out her life.

In Chapter 31:
Touko: "So... Would you go out with me, all over again?"
...
Sayaka: "I can see myself, falling in love with you all over again"

I can't believe everyone forgot how the play ended. She only denied to move in with her, because she wants to try and reconnect with her family, they still got together in the revised ending too.

Eivhbyw
joined Aug 26, 2018

She does? I thought she ended up on her own, going on to figure out her life.

In Chapter 31:
Touko: "So... Would you go out with me, all over again?"
...
Sayaka: "I can see myself, falling in love with you all over again"

I can't believe everyone forgot how the play ended. She only denied to move in with her, because she wants to try and reconnect with her family, they still got together in the revised ending too.

Exactly. The play's focus was not on changing her relationships, it was about figuring out who she would BE. The bonds didn't disappear just because they were lost temporarily.

That was a much more philosophycal answer than I expected...

Some may also call it esoteric nonsense or a phase. You're a nice guy BV.

last edited at Jan 4, 2019 9:01AM

4bbe1078a9d82bf519de9e5fc56dee60
joined Feb 18, 2018

In Chapter 31:
Touko: "So... Would you go out with me, all over again?"
...
Sayaka: "I can see myself, falling in love with you all over again"

I can't believe everyone forgot how the play ended. She only denied to move in with her, because she wants to try and reconnect with her family, they still got together in the revised ending too.

Haha well, these chapters take too long to be released, and life is busy...It baffles me some people here seem to remember minute details about the story.

I must say I do think the play is already showing the whole story, so I think it will end with a dialogue similar to this one. Now the question is whether Yuu is simultaneously the girlfriend and the nurse (most likely since it's about falling in love with the same person on different terms), or whether Sayaka was the girlfriend all along. I like original endings, so I'd bet on the former but would love for it to be the latter even if it's bittersweet for Yuu.

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

The only ever polyamory ending in normal manga, that I can remember is in Honeymoon Salad. It's really tricky to get that kind of ending right (outside of hentai, that is), and it can undermine the believability of the entire series. I seriously doubt that we well see that here.

Yeah, your point is at place, about trickiness to get that triad (Yuu x Touko x Sayaka) outside of hentai. But we think oppose, it would not undermine believability.
Why?
Because Yuu and Sayaka are giving that vibe of very open minded girls (not lightheaded).
Both are very thoughtful. And will think about everything twice as much, before finding and choosing right decisions.

The only problem here is Touko. She gives the vibe of refusing everything possible, and turn away. She must be under the pressures which will make her act, or she will just give up, if pressures are out of her comfort zones. She simply does not know how to free herself.
Her own illusion is to act under the pressures ("becoming" her sister is just her own illusion, moving her to act, but in same time completely blocking her (her real self).

Actually, her opening up to Yuu is surprising, but still, she limited their relationship setting up conditions which are in her comfort zone. Outside of it, she is letting go.
Until she finds liberations of herself, nothing will work here for Touko. She will distance herself from both girls.

And then, there will be Yuu x Sayaka ending together, actually.

last edited at Jan 4, 2019 9:10AM

Eivhbyw
joined Aug 26, 2018

Haha well, these chapters take too long to be released, and life is busy...It baffles me some people here seem to remember minute details about the story.

I must say I do think the play is already showing the whole story, so I think it will end with a dialogue similar to this one. Now the question is whether Yuu is simultaneously the girlfriend and the nurse (most likely since it's about falling in love with the same person on different terms), or whether Sayaka was the girlfriend all along. I like original endings, so I'd bet on the former but would love for it to be the latter even if it's bittersweet for Yuu.

It baffles me that someone would make claims on plot points they don't remember lol

That's not it. The play is a mirror to Touko's situation only in the sense of her personalities. It's not representative of the entire story. Yuu/The nurse represents seeing the value of the current her and nothing else. Sayaka/The girlfriend represents the one who recognizes her for her vulnerable and needy side, but ignores the other aspects.

If anything after mindlessly applying that to the real situation, Yuu is the girlfriend and picking the original ending would have assured Yuu got happy. Instead she chooses to change the ending to save Touko from herself and let her be the person she already is, rather than forcing her to be just that vulnerable needy person. Sayaka doesn't even factor into the equation at all. Hence why we cant mindlessly apply the play to the overall story.

last edited at Jan 4, 2019 9:11AM

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

@HayaH
Why are you referring to yourself in first person plural, rather than first person singular please don't tell me it's that communist meme.

Which communist meme do you refer?

Our reason is personal, not meme, our philosophy of life complicated to explain. Shortly said, we feel us as dual. One side of us is Baby Angel, other side is Tremendous Angel. Who people will meet, depends on them. We don't recommend meeting with Tremendous Angel to no one.

We respect our both sides equally, so we express us through plurality.
There are many other manifestations of duality, some people are genderfluid, some are bisexual, etc.
We express ourselves as trio (three different entities in one), two of us (our both sides) in marriage in one body (compare it with Holy Trinity, it's allowed).
We are married with our body. An inner polyamory relationship (something like mind x body x soul).
We are self sufficient. That's why we think triple Yuu x Touko x Sayaka would work better than couple ending. Speaking from perspective of our joyful inner trio, triad, trinity.
When we thought that we were single, or in discordance with our body, we were unhappy. Our "third party" was repressed.
Not anymore. Nor we'll be unhappy ever!
Life is full of mysteries, and wonderful surprises! Just embracing it is required. An open mind.

Edit: To add, we think that answers are inside of everyone of us.
There are three forms of life on the Earth, males, females, and human beings (any mixture of genders and sexes, like man-woman in body of male or female, genderfluid or transgender, depends on how many feel themselves).

That was a much more philosophycal answer than I expected...

Trust us, our words are not a fruit of some imagination out of mind...We truly passed through many phases, struggling through life, suffering through many levels, until we figured us out, finally setting up the healthy base for all our further developments.
We are very successful now, in everything we do. It's almost two years since we raised from deads, constantly going up, up, up...
This is the truth. Figuratively or literally. But only we know it, how much literally it is...

Be well, BV

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

That was a much more philosophycal answer than I expected...

Some may also call it esoteric nonsense or a phase. You're a nice guy BV.

Who called you to interfere and judge, "bug devil"?
Suppose you are one of those smartses who always know better than any person about themselves.

Mind your own businesses and don't express any opinions in names of someone else, and don't throw your worthless judgments into the air, judgments made up from prejudices, which are proving how much valuable yours "arguments "are, and how judgmental you are .

We did not call for desinsection yet, but it's true that every site has some bugs.
Some of them just mosquito levels. That's the damage and ability which they can cause.
So fly away from our sight.

joined Jul 26, 2016

Uwaah...

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