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I'm happy with this chapter.
I love that one panel on page 22 where Yuu clasps Touko's hand as if in prayer, in supplication. She closes her eyes too. It conveys so much desire and hope for a wish. On the topic of emotional panels, page 16's "no" has a similar layout to another scene in one of Nakatani's Touhou doujins, Silver Fire.
I like that there's a distinction between trying to be like her sister and actually being her sister's copy. Touko describes herself as a shell while we all see her drive and attempts at perfection as part of who she is. Yuu sums it up; it's not trying to become her sister that's inherently an issue but what it's motivated by - thinking there is nothing else to her worth being. I don't think Touko is stubborn in her rejection of other possibilities, not if you look at it from her end. She genuinely doesn't believe any other way is possible, because of how she's always thought of herself, and that's what Yuu penetrates for the first time in this chapter.
Touko's desires keep evolving: "I want to be my sister" "I want to kiss you" "I want to put on this play" "I want to stay in love with you" and finally "I want to believe in Yuu." This marks the turning point, with Touko being receptive to change. It's her least self-centered desire yet and the only one which shows she'll try to accept others' help. It's sort of interesting seeing things from another person's end, one that's opposite my own. Like I always wanted help but didn't believe I deserved it, while Touko doesn't want help in a way, the love others have given her, because she doesn't believe she deserves it, that it's for her. That's something else which Yuu also breaks down, that "everyone's feelings... all of it is meant for you and you alone."
I think Yuu might have found it hard to say no, if only because she wants that kiss too, but her conviction and straightforward honesty is what I've found most admirable about her. She really turned out different from how I thought she would be based on the first couple chapters. I didn't think she would be this... strong.
Every time I see a new chapter uploaded I go into mild fits of excitement. I'm looking forward to the new Touko. Bloom Into You has become one of my standards for complex characters with "negative" and "positive" traits/moments equally balanced and who make decisions more because of who they are rather than what the plot requires.
This chapter was saaaaaaad. Mostly the last couple pages, with parallel Yuu and Touko frames, looking "away" from each other, left and right respectively. Might have been coincidence, but that captured the mood quite well.
First time I read the last line, I thought Touko wanted Yuu to help her. Second time I read it, it occurred to me she might be accusing Yuu of not helping her. For now I'm leaning towards thinking the former is true, based on the side blurb. Maybe they're both true. It satisfies me that Touko is thinking about this seriously, probably having already re-read the lines tens of times to have already memorized them, and going through them again at the end.
I had some personal experience with the self hatred thing recently, after a friend talked to me about it. o: Thinking about how they felt, I'm thinking Touko can't possibly want to hate herself. It's just that there's no other option. Seems like. Being empty is scary. Being no one, to not exist, of no consequence is scary, if you're aware that there's another possibility. Touko's solution has being to go for that possibility. But we see how much she enjoys being herself too, because maybe that fills the hole more than an imitation. The funny thing is her stubborn determination in erasing herself is another characteristic which is hers alone. So the conflict here is between which "her" she is able to believe in the most. The perfect side or the emerging one, which can't be seen in such black and white terms as weak/perfect.
I said before I thought that her weak side didn't exist anymore, only as a driver for her internal hate. Maybe that's wrong and that is the threshold which she has let no one see. For some reason I don't really think her moments of weakness with Yuu are the deepest they can go. I don't think her hate for herself is the whole story. I really want her to say why she hates herself in her own words. If she were willing to admit it, she definitely would figure it out. She probably already knows.
Quite curious as to why that particular cover was used for this chapter. Touko hiding a weak side / some knowledge buried deep is the only thing I can come up with which makes sense in the context of this chapter.
This gave me chills, and not just because it's getting colder here. These are such complex and realistic emotions. Holding onto someone for who you want them to be, the importance of another despite all the lies and half-truths in the way- I can't even, so much is going on in this doujin. Roughly 250 pages worth of material-! It's a freaking manga book.
I need to reread this to give it the proper time to sink in. The art was gorgeous, the pacing perfect, and I love that all of the characters are so mature without being melodramatic. I'm so glad Yuyuko never wavered in her sense of self even after finding out she technically originated as a shell.
I'm currently at a loss for words and all I know is my heart hurts, but I'm also hopeful for where the three of them are headed. Upon re-examination, the title is spot on and evocative.
This is... it's rare to see doujins which tell a whole story. I've never seen such a bleak depiction of Reimu's role either. Major props for the artistic use of black boxes. When I went through those panels the first time, they gave me a weird feeling, like something wasn't quite right with the scene, but I didn't think there was so much being covered up.
I feel the ending was a tad abrupt and the shift in Reimu desperately trying to cope to accepting help wasn't conveyed well enough. But everything else, it made me really sad for her.
But I have always assumed that, since immediately before that line Yuu mentions her desire to “stay by [Touko’s] side,” it was a foreshadowing of the shift from “I love you even though you don’t love me back” to “I’ll continue to love you only if you don’t love me back,” which is the weird and toxic emotional blackmail that makes this series so fundamentally unsettling.
Yeah, I might just be taking that line out of context and retroactively placing undue significance on it. I always forget the beginning started with a completely different set of expectations. Chapter 10 could have been the fulfillment of that prophecy.
So, in order to be with Touko, Yuu had to give up love.
If that is the case though, if it's an ongoing condition, then what does it mean now that Yuu certainly does love Touko?
I can't shake the feeling it's meant to be a very poignant statement, something cutting to the heart of the story, because it's the only instance I can think of where the flow of linear time is broken for future Yuu to chime in. For that same reason, I would also expect it to apply to the end of the story, since I wouldn't imagine chapter 10 Yuu would stop and think, "5 chapters ago I didn't know I would have to give up something to stay with Touko."
Going back to the question, I would think of two possibilities.
Assuming what she says is meant to have larger implications and that what she had to give up was loving another, because she will almost certainly not give up her love for Touko, she will no longer be by Touko's side by the end.
Second possibility. Maybe the meaning of the statement could change, at first referencing Touko's selfish desire to have Yuu all to herself, and ultimately encapsulating Yuu's (relatively) selfless love. I could imagine a more-broken or simply confused Touko with no idea of where to go next (after the climactic event) still being approached by Yuu and the impact that would have. It would be a really cheesy ending if the moral of the story turned out to be "love conquers all", but I could see something similar happening. If that were the case, then what Yuu hadn't realized yet in chapter 5 would be what love actually is. That to be with someone and love them, you will have to sacrifice, you will have to give up your time and energy, compromise, be willing to dedicate yourself.
I mean the entire launching point of Yagate Kimi ni Naru was Yuu not knowing what love is. She reaches for the projected stars first, then holds the projector itself in her hands, and perhaps soon she'll find the light that is the actual source of those stars.
Touko is an unhealthy mess, and in real life people cannot be saved with love, but often it can be a tipping point. To me at least, this makes thematical and narrative sense.
Third possibility, I'm overthinking this and it was only meant as a dramatic teaser for the second volume. XD
For a couple of updates now, I've been thinking about what Yuu says at the very end of chapter 5: "At that time, I still hadn't realized that I would have to give up something in order to [stay by her side]." Those are actually the most ominous words I can think of in the entire series, because up until this point, I don't believe they have yet to pass. From how I read it, it seems Yuu will be faced with a sacrifice to stay with Touko, which in essence means doing something to prevent Touko from ever reaching a point of no return in regard to her trapped mindset. It also suggests she will make that sacrifice.
The problem is, this plot point is the one that seems to have the least to no foreshadowing. We have seen Yuu have to hold back her feelings in order to not drive Touko away, but those sort of subtle actions don't merit such a blunt and blatantly important statement. As far as I can wrack my brains, nothing else has hinted at this development either.
Anybody have thoughts on this?
Because she hates herself.
But why exactly does she hate herself, and which "self" is it that she hates?
There's what Yuu calls in Chapter 10 "your weak side and your perfect side," which together are what Touko says Yuu accepts: "all of me."
But we actually have:
1) "original Touko": shy, hiding behind her sister.
2) "perfect Touko," which she thought was an imitation of Mio Mk.2, but now has learned is not, at least not entirely.
3) "real Touko": the both sides that Yuu accepts
Interesting point, which I'd never thought about. I always assumed the self she hated was her real self. I don't think "original Touko" exists anymore although she definitely detests who she used to be. And if she hates "perfect Touko", it would be because it's only an extension of her real self.
She just hates everything about herself, you know? Past and present.
Her failing to be her sister, her having no real identity (in her POV), her sister identity is not her own, & the fact she can't escape from her original identity. All these things are the flaws she finds in her existence.
That sums up everything I could have ever wished to say and more that I never thought of. The biggest irony I see about her situation is despite doing everything she can to be flawless, to feel a type of redemption in dedicating her life to becoming Mio, she has never stopped hiding behind another person's shadow.
In fact, she should have died instead.
But in that scene it's clear that the mom asks someone to go to the store, and Touko's scissors beat Mio's paper (in our family we used to flip a coin to decide which kid would run out for milk/bread).
There's definitely guilt there, but there's a subtle but significant difference in degree between "It could have just as easily been me" and "It was supposed to be me, but I refused to go."
I think it doesn't matter if she had won or lost the rock, paper, scissors match, the self-loathing would be the same. Her hatred for herself molds her view of the event, not the other way around. All that matters to her is Mio died when she should have, because her life was/is worthless compared to her sister's.
A note to the uploaders/scanlators, you guys are awesome thanks so much for bringing this wonderful manga to Japanese-illiterate people like me. :D
That's not what she means. The Japanese phrasing is clear: she thinks she'd be pathetic if she were to obstruct Yuu. She thinks what Yuu is doing is good, she wasn't brave enough herself to risk doing something similar, she had a chance to stop Yuu by siding with Touko, but she thinks it would wrong to stop Yuu doing it.
See above. Yeah, it does make a lot more sense, especially if you take her confession to Yuu at the end of the chapter. I thought it was kind of unusual for her to just blurt that out of nowhere. So it was a mistranslation, then?
Mistranslation, her saying "...And who am I to interfere? I wouldn't stoop that low."? Nah, I think it makes the point pretty clear, since right before she's talking about how she was afraid and Yuu stepped in when she didn't. So she's saying she wouldn't be "low" enough, ie. keep supporting Touko's ideal out of her own self-interest in not being rejected, to interfere with Yuu's attempt to change Touko. So yes she was selfish, but she knows it, and she chooses to side with Yuu despite it.
Back in ch 23, I was thinking the same, that the suicide imageries are more just narrative reminder of the weight of Touko's problem and are more symbolic in nature than actually depicting her starting to harbor suicidal thoughts. But my opinion is kinda shifting with this chapter due to the event that happened in it as well as that ominous last page with yet another suicide imagery.
Assuming the translation is accurate, I'm grasping onto the blurb on the last page, since it only says Touko's mind is clouded with "doubt" and not despair. Touko rejecting the changed play was expected from the very beginning, suicidal thoughts or not, since it is true she doesn't see another way out from her self-imposed cage. However, Yuu has already tried two times to tell her not being like her sister is fine and the second time went marginally better than the first. Although now I'm going to provide evidence against my own opinion. I just remembered in chapter 10, Touko says she would rather die than be told people might like her better as herself. As foreshadowing, that would be way too relevant.
I think Yuu currently is the only person who could be a catalyst for Touko. She and anything related to Mio are the only people who have been shown to have any effect on her. But I worry about what something like Yuu breaking down would show. Touko's commandment to not fall in love with her still stands, not to mention it was made explicit Yuu came up with the revised play.
There is symbolism behind Touko's feelings towards Yuu, as stated in the aquarium chapter. They're a reflection of her acceptance of and willingness to hold onto herself, separate from Mio, and her development of her own personality. There is so much tension or drama currently because those feelings and her clinging to her reality have both been increasing. But you know, another theme which has been consistent in this work is that the trajectories our lives have been following don't have be the end all be all and our feelings and actions can always change. Yuu and Touko start that off; Touko doing a 180 to pursue Yuu instead of being pursued, and Yuu never having fallen in love to now being genuinely in love. Then there's Sayaka never rocking the boat to now firmly stand against Touko's wishes. Riko-sensei preferring men, yet dating Miyako. Koyomi being shaken by the revelation her favorite author wasn't who she expected them to be like, but using that to further drive her passion for writing.
In my experience, people look to death when the path they see ahead of them seems unbearable and, more importantly, unchanging, even though that's often not true. If Touko blooming into Mio was her starting trajectory, then I believe enough has changed, enough has happened to her through the course of the "play" for her to make a new decision. Like I already said before, I cannot see a satisfying ending where Touko does not change, for the exact same reason Yuu gave for why Koyomi's original script didn't feel right. It could also be said stories don't have to be satisfying, but well, that's going to be a hard sell to turn out brilliant work for years just so it can crash at the very end.
It's so hard to say, because other people can do everything they want, but in the end it's up to Touko to choose. People can do surprising things, and Nakatani writes people well.
Well, speculation is fun but guess we'll have to wait and see.
If this series doesn't get a good anime adaptation, I am going to cry.
I know right, they've already made a PV and the voice actors were pretty good. Citrus got an anime adaptation for goodness sake, and that has so much less complexity and so much more melodrama compared to Yagate Kimi ni Naru. Well on the other hand maybe that's what other people like. XD To each their own.
last edited at Oct 1, 2017 1:49PM
Thank goodness there was no drama. (Not that it would make sense for Nakatani to add any in.)
I am massively frustrated at how modern internet has perverted the classic literary terms. "Drama" is what this manga is all about -- the best kind of drama in fact, the believable, human, character-driven one. Please don't say that this manga has "no drama" when you, in fact, mean "melodrama" and "poorly written and unnecessary complications".
Haha I'll keep that in mind.
Well, there's one thing that's been on my mind: the possibility of Touko's suicide. I kinda doubt this is the route the story is taking, but damn, her emotional & mental state right now is so unstable, if you just consider her character alone without the whole picture of the story, she honestly is someone who is at the brink of doing it.
I was thinking about this and had the horrifying realization that if Touko died, it would mirror her sister's life perfectly. For a variety of reasons, meta and in-story, I don't believe Touko will actually die, but since suicide has been brought up, one route I could see the story going is Touko attempting suicide and failing. Looking at that possibility positively, it could mean she has completed attempting to be her sister and broken out of that cycle in the most decisive way possible, staying alive when her sister is dead, her life fully her own.
Even so, while there has been death and 'future less train' imagery, I don't see Touko as having that much of a desire to die or a lack of will to live. What Yuu and Koito discuss here, is clearly applicable to not just the play but also this story. If Touko does not "make her decision based on what happens to her throughout the course of this play", if "her life during the timeframe of the play meant nothing", I think that would be a wholly unsatisfying ending.
I am worried about her possibly feeling trapped, because no one supports her twisted ideal now and trapped animals/people tend to be the most desperate. But she is contemplating this turn of events seriously. That could mean she will imagine what it is like to play this new role and maybe she'll find it's not as impossible or undesirable as she feels it is. A trial run potentially.
For Sayaka, I'm very happy I was wrong about her keeping the status quo and going along with what Touko wants. The manner in which she acts is very noble too, admitting she was afraid, she didn't act when she could have, and "who am I to interfere?" I don't see any love rivalry going on with her confession; it's the answer to why she agreed to use the new script and an acknowledgement that Yuu is motivated by the same reason.
Yuu is the best. No more needs be said.
Seriously though, if Bloom into You turns into a tragedy, I am going to cry.
OH MY GODDDDDD, HYPE. This is going to get good.
I respect Sayaka even more now.
Thank goodness there was no drama. (Not that it would make sense for Nakatani to add any in.)
More thoughts after my midterm is finished.
I have no idea how things will end but I'm still hopeful and at this point I completely trust Nakatani to take us on the ride.
https://twitter.com/yagakimi/status/911803737584295936
Well guys, guess who's wearing their strap to school?
Haha oh it's starting.
Sakuya is caaaaaalm about everything throughout. Bordering on apathetic actually. XD
Unexpected shift of tone from "Guess I'm going to die" to "Guess I'm going to live". Doesn't seem like it makes much of a difference to Sakuya. XD Liked the inclusion of Komachi. Why don't PoFV characters appear more often?
Eh, expected more out of this than I got. Like why Sakuya attacked Eirin while still on the moon. Oh I guess maybe cause Eirin was helping Kaguya, betraying the moon, etc. But then why did she revert to being a child when meeting Remilia. Didn't really flow well. Nice action scenes though. The "Misdirection" part has been done before but still clever and pulled off well.
It disturbed me to see Remilia turn Sakuya by force. If there is a redeeming factor, it's the dark feeling in the epilogue that all of them may not remain human. I see a lot of doujins exploring the boundaries of humanity, and this one left a lot of room for thought.
Why is Sakuya not disintegrating in the sun though.
The impetuous for all of this, the wolf not being able to read of all things, and being pissed off by Remilia not letting him hear the rest of the story, rather ruined the mood, but the concept in the earlier portions was interesting. I have seen that idea in one other place, a PV actually, where Remilia does kill Sakuya.
Re-reading, I'm still disappointed by how Pigeonblood botched the execution. The wolf was the most ridiculous entity I've seen and its entire existence overshadowed Remilia's determination to be a different master, which I think was the main point of the story. I have to admit the parallel between the wolf's master's and Remilia's reaction to seemingly being attacked by their servants was nice, but the wolf/master story was contrived and its actions while possessing Sakuya nonsensical.
last edited at Dec 9, 2017 7:39PM